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Thread: Lofting the Brewer catboat

  1. #6196
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Here are a couple of interesting pics from the planking crew. They're not the fastest and they spend far too much time sitting, drinking coffee and admiring their work. But, they are what I have to work with.









  2. #6197
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    That planking crew does some good work - glad to see they decided 'not' to go on strike over tough working conditions ( imagine the stress of having to work on a bare piece of plywood !! )


    Great progress, Jim !



    Rick

  3. #6198
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I can picture the planking crew in my mind, on their backs holding the bloody plank waiting for the helper to tighten the clamps and then crawling out from under the boat and saying "I can't wait to get to the turn".

    Beautiful but brutal work... my back's sore just thinking about it.

    Cheers and thanks for the update!
    spending most of my time on the water, in winter it just takes a different form

  4. #6199
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    That planking crew does some good work - glad to see they decided 'not' to go on strike over tough working conditions ( imagine the stress of having to work on a bare piece of plywood !! )


    Great progress, Jim !



    Rick

    Ah, but, Rick, the working conditions could not be more perfect, right in the sweet spot between shivering and sweating. It won't last, though, and I expect the grumbling to resume shortly.


    Quote Originally Posted by rkymtnsailor View Post
    I can picture the planking crew in my mind, on their backs holding the bloody plank waiting for the helper to tighten the clamps and then crawling out from under the boat and saying "I can't wait to get to the turn".

    Beautiful but brutal work... my back's sore just thinking about it.

    Cheers and thanks for the update!

    We've a shortage of helpers, and if there is one he's on his phone out back when you need the clamp.No matter, I've seen one of these guys hold up a full length plank and get a clamp on it, pads inside and out.

    While you may think that it's difficult to work laying on your back it's not that bad. It's far worse when you can't lay on your back and reach the plank but it's too low to reach kneeling. I'm not looking forward to holding up the RO sander, that's gonna get tedious fast.


    One job on the slate for this Spring is the installation of the cockpit coaming/cabin side assembly. This will get five major pieces off the floor and into place while at the same time allowing progress on many fronts which are currently stalled.

    To this end I have glued the scarf together between the aftermost sections, port and starboard. These will be fastened in place and the installation will then continue from aft forward. Here's some exciting gluing action going on, there's clamps pulling down, shores pushing, there's a clamp pulling the scarf together, very important, that one. Packing tape is in liberal use keeping the glue at bay from everywhere but the scarf.



  5. #6200
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Clamping up is a 'ballet without the music', or so it would seem . . . .

  6. #6201
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    My "trick" for placing a clamp with pads both sides while holding the work in place with the other hand is to use masking tape to apply the pads first. You've probably been doing that for the last 65 years, but maybe that will help someone else.

  7. #6202
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Clamping up is a 'ballet without the music', or so it would seem . . . .

    "Ballet punctuated with profanity" might be more on the mark, Rick.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    My "trick" for placing a clamp with pads both sides while holding the work in place with the other hand is to use masking tape to apply the pads first. You've probably been doing that for the last 65 years, but maybe that will help someone else.

    About the only thing I've been doing for the past sixty five years, Gib, is eating with a knife and fork. Back then we didn't have any masking tape. But thanks for the tip, it's a good one. I often use a spring clamp to hold a clamp pad in place. If I was to assemble a cabinet box I would clamp pads on four corners before applying the clamps. It only took about thirty years for the penny to drop on that one.



    I'm so fed up with these cabin sides. I wish they were done already. They're difficult pieces to handle and even more so to clamp. Once the bottom edge is trimmed the corner is so delicate that extreme care must be taken when they are taken down for more fitting.

    There are five scarfs between the five pieces, four of them fall out on curved sections. Two of them are visible from the inside and outside, so no fudging there. The other three are seen only on the outside, so anything goes there.

    Don't go getting the idea that these sections are well-behaved because you'd be wrong. They take some wrestling into position, which might be okay if they only had to go together one time. That's not the case. They have to be scribed in on the bottom, onto a curved and sloped surface, mind you, before the fit of the scarf butts can be attended to. By the time a scarf is fitted I'm using a feeler gauge to get the butts tight.

    The plan from here is to glue the remaining four scarfs and then pull the whole shebang down into the goop, followed by, I dunno, long screws from underneath, fitted interior trim bedded in goop as a backstop. The way forward is murky. I wish it was done.



  8. #6203
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    If anyone can do it Jim you're the guy.

    If I remember correctly you already laminated all of the curve into the various sections. Would it be possible at this point to glue all of the scarfs on the bench then drop the entire unit in place to scribe the bottom?

  9. #6204
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I don’t envy you Jim but like Gib says “you’re the man”.

    Feeler gauges - by the time I get to that stage I’ve given up and filled it with the goop. In fact sometimes I build in an epoxy gap so the joint doesn’t get “dry”.

  10. #6205
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    If anyone can do it Jim you're the guy.

    If I remember correctly you already laminated all of the curve into the various sections. Would it be possible at this point to glue all of the scarfs on the bench then drop the entire unit in place to scribe the bottom?

    No, Gib, that would be an extremely risky approach. Imagine the sweep and crown of the deck. The pieces would have to be supported during gluing to exactly match the deck contour, which is just about impossible to measure with any accuracy, much less reproduce off the boat. The inward leaning sections pose another problem. And finally, should I manage to scribe the whole thing, there would be no way to get it off the boat and flipped over for cutting. It's worth considering, nonetheless, but the difficulties soon become apparent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    I don’t envy you Jim but like Gib says “you’re the man”.

    Feeler gauges - by the time I get to that stage I’ve given up and filled it with the goop. In fact sometimes I build in an epoxy gap so the joint doesn’t get “dry”.

    I'm finding a feeler gauge useful while close fitting planks. Once the plank is clamped on the feeler gauge shows up the tight spots that need to be planed back. I go down the plank with the gauge and mark the tight spots in chalk.



    Here, though, I'm dealing with very visible joints in mahogany that will be finished bright, so I want them to look good. I clamped the two parts of the scarf together and drew them together until one part of the seam touched another. In this case the top of the joint was closed while there was a gap of eighteen thou at the bottom. While this could be planed off by guesswork I've worked out a way that gives me a better chance of a fit.

    The picture tells the story. I clamped on a guide for the plane. This will keep the end cut square across its thickness. One end was set flush while the other was set back the thickness of the eighteen thou gauge. All done by feel. Planing up to the guide should remove the correct amount and no more.

    Keep in mind that these are scarf joints and that both ends will probably need to be trimmed, most likely different amounts to get the joint to close inside and out.



  11. #6206
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Jim,

    I’ve been following this young man doing traditional Japanese timber framing, and I never realized how often they used impromptu “jigs” and “guides” for their blades to maintain square or whatever angle.

    I thought it was brilliant and I’ve intended to borrow it; then I come here and you’re doing much the same.

    So cool. We are all so different and so much the same at times, eh?

    Thanks for walking through all these fiddly things. It takes time and effort to post about this stuff, and I really appreciate it. If only for the nice photos of neat stuff.

  12. #6207
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Nibbed scarfs. One would expect no less from you mate. I hope all of the positive feedback you deservedly receive here helps you to get it done. You're way closer than you were on 2 May 2008. Keep on truckin'!

  13. #6208
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Jim,

    I’ve been following this young man doing traditional Japanese timber framing, and I never realized how often they used impromptu “jigs” and “guides” for their blades to maintain square or whatever angle.

    I thought it was brilliant and I’ve intended to borrow it; then I come here and you’re doing much the same.

    So cool. We are all so different and so much the same at times, eh?

    Thanks for walking through all these fiddly things. It takes time and effort to post about this stuff, and I really appreciate it. If only for the nice photos of neat stuff.

    Thanks for the kind words, Rob. Nice photos of neat stuff is what I manufacture here. If I, one day, get a boat out of it it'll just be gravy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    Nibbed scarfs. One would expect no less from you mate. I hope all of the positive feedback you deservedly receive here helps you to get it done. You're way closer than you were on 2 May 2008. Keep on truckin'!

    Has it been that long, Gib? Geez, it seems like only last week. And thanks for the positive feedback, y'all. Some days I need it.




    Here is the port cabin side having a couple of coats of epoxy applied to the bottom edge.



  14. #6209
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    You’re building a BOAT?

    I can only hope I am here and able to be there when she’s launched, Brother.

  15. #6210
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    You’re building a BOAT?

    I can only hope I am here and able to be there when she’s launched, Brother.


    I know, Rob, I know, it's easy to lose track of what's going on. Happens to me all the time.

    You will be at the launch, if I have anything to do with it.




    This is how I like to start my day...with something to unclamp. This particular unclamping is the second scarf of five, the portside cabin side to the aft section. The showing part of the joint is between the two pieces of blue tape; there'll be some anticipation as the excess epoxy is sanded off.



  16. #6211
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    This is how I like to start my day...with something to unclamp.
    It really does get the day off to a good start, doesn't it.

  17. #6212
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I think that bar clamp used to be someone's gas line. I can still see the Teflon tape in the threads...

    Easing the clamps off and seeing that all is well is a wonderful way to start a day.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  18. #6213
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lesser View Post
    It really does get the day off to a good start, doesn't it.

    It certainly does, Dave, I can't wait to get out there and take the clamps off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I think that bar clamp used to be someone's gas line. I can still see the Teflon tape in the threads...

    Easing the clamps off and seeing that all is well is a wonderful way to start a day.

    You've got a sharp eye, Rich, that pipe was part of the compressed air system back in my old shop. I'm using it here to pull the coaming in to the correct angle.





    Here's the scene once the clamps were removed and the joint scrubbed vigorously with various implements for a couple or three hours



  19. #6214
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    One of my favorite fixtures, limited in power only by the size of the fasteners in shear.
    (I have made these as a weldment to bend or shift steel into submission. in this case the toe rail fastenings.)
    It is looking good, Jim!

    C3AB5B89-0EDC-4849-86AB-FD7D9E8DBB35.jpg

    edit: it works well for flooring/deck planking

  20. #6215
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    One of my favorite fixtures, limited in power only by the size of the fasteners in shear.
    (I have made these as a weldment to bend or shift steel into submission. in this case the toe rail fastenings.)
    It is looking good, Jim!



    edit: it works well for flooring/deck planking



    It's also useful for racking stud framed walls into plumb.

    There is one interesting detail that someone might find useful. Because of the inward cant of the cabin side the brace wanted to pop back up after it was tapped into place. I bandsawed some tiny teeth in the face of the pad that is clamped to the cabin side so the brace caught on the corrugations. Problem solved.

    As far as the toe rail screws being loaded in shear, I scribed the blocks you see to spread any load over three or four fastenings.

    Thanks for the comments, Jake.

    Jim

  21. #6216
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The changing rake to those toe rail corner laminations is intriguing.

  22. #6217
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    One of my favorite fixtures, limited in power only by the size of the fasteners in shear.
    (I have made these as a weldment to bend or shift steel into submission. in this case the toe rail fastenings.)
    It is looking good, Jim!

    edit: it works well for flooring/deck planking
    DAMHIKT, but when using this method on planking, don't wait 'til you've gotten the plank just right & then discover that when you accidentally kick the closest jackstand it moves...

    Jim - this is indeed looking fantastic. I don't comment often, but I watch this wonderful thread regularly.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  23. #6218
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    DAMHIKT, but when using this method on planking, don't wait 'til you've gotten the plank just right & then discover that when you accidentally kick the closest jackstand it moves...
    .
    The entire boat moves, yup it is a powerful system, Archimedes at his best.

  24. #6219
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    My kids regularly boggle their friends with their knowledge of moving stuffs; we call it Egyptian technology, because it’s funny, and we do use sand if there’s a hard surface to move something on.

    These clampings (crampings) are simply one aspect of what makes these documents valuable. Who cares WHAT you’re building, really, if this technique will apply, and help deliver a solution?

    This is cool stuff, this discussing, explaining, observing, learning. Wonderful.

  25. #6220
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Yaknow, there was a guy that wrote a book chock full of lovely descriptive drawings on "How to move stuff"
    Sam Manning
    Rip.
    But a book full of drawings, Hmmm...
    "Archimedes Didn't Build Anything"

  26. #6221
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Yaknow, there was a guy that wrote a book chock full of lovely descriptive drawings on "How to move stuff"
    Moving Heavy Things by Jan Adkins



    Sorry for the thread drift, Jim. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming
    Last edited by Dave Lesser; 05-02-2021 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Changed link to WB Store

  27. #6222
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    The concrete guys use a driven prop system of 2x4’s similar that to straighten concrete forms. Imagine the hydraulic forces at play in a 10’ wall with concrete mixed at a 7” slump! They call it a wailer/whaler. I thought the name evoked a nautical origin.

  28. #6223
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    "wale" "waler" etc. common origins are nautical. Out-wale, In-wale, Chain wales (Channels) et al.
    see: https://www.etymonline.com/word/wale

  29. #6224
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Moving things?

    wedge.jpg
    Simple, subtle and yet powerful.

  30. #6225
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat


  31. #6226
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1902 View Post
    Moving things?

    wedge.jpg
    Simple, subtle and yet powerful.
    Wedgies are nice to have but not so nice to receive.

    Jeff

  32. #6227
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    I'm still fitting the cabin sides. This is the absolute worst way of going about making the sides. My next catboat's gonna have plumb sides made from tongue and groove, just like the last one. The only thing is, two things, actually, is that it's gonna look far friggen out, and the other thing is that it will be easy to sand and varnish. There'll be no corners where the finish can crack. That's the kind of things I tell myself when I take the side down just one more time for a wee trim. Just one more and that'll be it.

    Almost home though, there's two more scarfs to glue. One of them fits well, and the other's being a bugger. Soon it well be one continuous band of Mahogany and I can sit my sorry ass in the moaning chair and have a good cry.





  33. #6228
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    It is lovely Jim, don't cry.
    Not many will know what happened there and those that do will stop and knuckle their foreheads to the boatbuilding gods present before them.

  34. #6229
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    ...My next catboat's gonna have plumb sides made from tongue and groove, just like the last one...
    Seriously?
    You're already planning your next build???

    God, I am such a slouch.

  35. #6230
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    Default Re: Lofting the Brewer catboat

    Bloody outrageous Jim. Fantastic doesn't do it justice. Incredible comes closer.

    I would have thrown out the feeler gauge a long long time ago, in fact I did.

    Anyway, keep it up, we're all rooting for you (and I've got big money on you).

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