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Thread: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the US?

  1. #1
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    Default Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the US?

    Seems like y’all could use some help.

    https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/erco...use-on-monday/

    AUSTIN (KXAN) — The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which controls the flow of about 90% of the power in Texas, is asking residents to conserve power through Friday as temperatures in the state surge.

    The council says the power grid will likely be tighter due to a high number of forced generation outages.

    Monday afternoon data from ERCOT indicates forecasted demand may exceed capacity during peak heat hours in the afternoon, and it’s not expected to change much during the week with temperatures close to 100 degrees.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Because muh freedums! The reds in charge didn’t want to be regulated by the feds. The rest of the folks end up paying for it.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    State's rights? Not wanting to conform to national standards? Philosophy over physics?
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Please refer to the threads on why they got so hammered this winter. Summary: it's called selfish Republicans.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    History. Engineering. Politics. Western Interconnection is also separate. If I recall correctly, Harris county alone is more populous than a couple of dozen states. Putting the Eastern Interconnection, the Western Interconnection, and ERCOT together would be difficult at this point. And probably a bad idea from an engineering standpoint.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    How has that “surge” pricing affected you in the past Tom?

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Science smience. Sometimes the federal government is there to help, Reagan aside.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    This thread needs some Texas music while your read it.

    Without friends none of this is possible.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer;[URL="tel:6469498"
    6469498[/URL]]How has that “surge” pricing affected you in the past Tom?
    Not at all that I can see. I vaguely recall hearing that that they are going to securitize it which will mean it’s paid off over decades.

    I’ve long forgotten the actual numbers, but when I worked in electric utility regulation, junior staff could round up or down by $10 million and no one cared. The extraordinary river of money associated with state-level electric transmission and distribution was such that it might amount to 2 cents a month for an average customer.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U


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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    ^ Good one Jimmy!
    Without friends none of this is possible.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Because muh freedums! The reds in charge didn’t want to be regulated by the feds. The rest of the folks end up paying for it.
    That's the core, as far as I can understand it. I have a boating buddy who works in the Texas power industry. At the start of the winter mess he was all about the 'party line'. How their system is far better because the freedom from Fed oversight allowed them to avoid regulations and failsafe's, and deliver inexpensive power. For the retail consumers and for baiting the hook as an attractive home for industry.

    By the end, he was, reluctantly, calling that approach, 'shortsighted'. And now some of the industries involved are wondering why they didn't heed the warning report and recommendations issued after the previous winter incident. And quietly pressing for better regulation and more foresight. But one issue is that planning more more such issues requires admitting that global climate change IS a reality. A religious problem, you see...
    David G
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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    "But one issue is that planning more more such issues requires admitting that global climate change IS a reality. A religious problem, you see"
    Our happy clapper PM has the same problem DavidG, exasservated by a 1 seat majority and a RW coal lobby.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Texas' model is also known by the phrase -- "Privatize the profits, socialize the losses". Despite what the putative free-market ideologues argue... it's NOT a market-driven system. It's a gaming of that system in favor of corporations.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    A lot of people liked paying the spot price. And then they did not.

    Paying spot prices and interruptible service benefit businesses. A lot of consumers wanted the deal businesses could have. They made a stupid decision.

    That blackout in the Northeast years ago was pretty bad. California has power supply issues. I don't see a reason to share the power problems other states have. But I don't make those decisions.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Speaking of Texas anyone else hear Rodney Crowell live? Most enjoyable.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    You guys do realize that from the 30s to the seventies Texas was a single party state, and it wasn't the GOP?

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Those of you who can't handle the math might like to use a calculator when subtracting 1970 from 2021.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    History. Engineering. Politics. Western Interconnection is also separate. If I recall correctly, Harris county alone is more populous than a couple of dozen states. Putting the Eastern Interconnection, the Western Interconnection, and ERCOT together would be difficult at this point. And probably a bad idea from an engineering standpoint.
    It has proven to be rather difficult. Very costly due to frequency flucuations between the three grids in question. The Three Amigos Superstation was estimated to cost $2Billion dollars to provide up to 5GW of power that could be transferred. It has been scaled back and there is not much interest by utility companies in cooperating (on either side).

    Criticize the historical reasons for the separation of grids all you want, there is not an easy answer. And it simply isn't the most pressing need for upgrading our grid. Texas is a big state. There are lots of smaller grids in existence. It seems better to focus on upgrading the grid internally than focus on interconnection projects that have a very questionable business plan behind them. Only way to really get it done is a massive government subsidy to utility companies.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    You guys do realize that from the 30s to the seventies Texas was a single party state, and it wasn't the GOP?
    So, what?
    Rattling the teacups.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    So, what?
    Seems to be a lot of references to republicans, and no one mentions any of the democrats who were in charge of the state in those days. Likely ignorance, its certainly not the first time on this forum people spot off without understanding an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer
    The reds in charge didn’t want to be regulated by the feds
    [QUOTE]I'm shocked! W played a role...
    [/QUOTE=Garret]
    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith
    Sometimes the federal government is there to help, Reagan aside.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Amazing - amazing! - just how fast texas came begging for Federal Relief, after last winters disaster. They still want to 'call the shots', of course - but - could ya spare a few billion $?

    'privatize profits/socialize losses', indeed. They talk - lets see them walk.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    And no, peb - don't try unloading this on the Democrats. The good ol' boys of Texas - all of 'em - own this. Want to be your own country? I think it's a good idea - but then they'd want $$$ from the USA, anyway.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Well, with the feds in charge of the other grids, they must be in wonderful shape.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    They have problems, which they address - and they only look 'better', in comparison.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    They have problems, which they address - and they only look 'better', in comparison.
    Really? Can you detail a few of these problems they have addressed?


    https://emp.news/2019-07-07-aging-po...-overtime.html

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Because muh freedums! The reds in charge didn’t want to be regulated by the feds. The rest of the folks end up paying for it.
    And Liberty, for gods sake don’t forget the liberty!
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Really? Can you detail a few of these problems they have addressed?


    https://emp.news/2019-07-07-aging-po...-overtime.html
    BENGHAZI!

    There - you first.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    BENGHAZI!

    There - you first.
    I am confused. You made a statement of fact: the other grids have problems, which they address. The implication is, of course, that Texas does not address any of their power grid issues (despite the fact we are one of the leaders in wind and solar power, much of it generated in remote areas, and yet it still makes it to the market, but I digress). So you are implicitly claiming to have some knowledge on the subject. Just share a bit of this knowledge. Thats all I ask.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Sorry, old son - not jumping the hoops for you. *Everyone* knows the issues Texas had this winter, developed at their own hands; their rejection of anything 'national' or federal; their begging for a handout after the stuff hit the fan. Spare us the defense, the claim of just how well texas is doing, 'so much better than the rest of you'.

    I don't care one bit what texas 'does'. they've never acted as if they're part of the USA; they're 'better'. But don't come begging for tax dollars when your corruption rears its ugly head.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Or to get rid of the private utilities and convert them to public utilities. A bill to just that to Maine's two largest private electric companies passed the state house yesterday. Still waiting on the senate vote, b ut the democrats have a 22 to 13 majority there so I expect it to pass.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Sorry, old son - not jumping the hoops for you. *Everyone* knows the issues Texas had this winter, developed at their own hands; their rejection of anything 'national' or federal; their begging for a handout after the stuff hit the fan. Spare us the defense, the claim of just how well texas is doing, 'so much better than the rest of you'.

    I don't care one bit what texas 'does'. they've never acted as if they're part of the USA; they're 'better'. But don't come begging for tax dollars when your corruption rears its ugly head.
    I agree whole heartedly that Texas has problems. Which we will work to fix. I did not ask about that. You claimed the rest of the nation has fixed their problems, or some portion of them and are fixing the others. I would like to know some details about this. Why make the claim if you are not willing to provide details? I am not asking you to jump through hoops, just provide a little bit of backup for your previous claim.

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd D View Post
    Or to get rid of the private utilities and convert them to public utilities. A bill to just that to Maine's two largest private electric companies passed the state house yesterday. Still waiting on the senate vote, b ut the democrats have a 22 to 13 majority there so I expect it to pass.
    I won't be critical of this. I will look, with interest, as to its results. The disadvantage of one centralized control for a whole nation is that these localized solutions cannot be as easily tried. This covers many areas, not just power grid issues.

    eta: I am curious, are there other parts of the world Maine is trying to emulate with this strategy?

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    Default Re: Hey Texas, why is your power grid pretty much disconnected from the rest of the U

    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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