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Thread: History is written by the victors

  1. #36
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    That high? That's far beyond the plantation image we see so often.

    I'm rethinking my opinion based on that statistic.
    Those who did not own slaves did not wish to be on the same social and professional standing as freed slaves.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    .
    Reading history books is like reading newspapers.... If you want a balanced and nuanced understanding regarding a particular issue or event you must read a number.

    I do. Most people do not.
    Being "judgemental," to me, just means I have standards. -- Fran Lebowitz

  3. #38
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith
    That high? That's far beyond the plantation image we see so often.

    I'm rethinking my opinion based on that statistic.
    Yep.

    The Texas revolution against Mexico was due to the fact that Mexico outlawed slavery while the caucasion interlopers from the states wanted to keep their slaves.
    Being "judgemental," to me, just means I have standards. -- Fran Lebowitz

  4. #39
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Of course the thread title is correct, for example Rome has been rewriting the history of their grab for the Roman Emperors power and trappings for 2000 years. And they dragged all the hangers on and half baked dissedents with them. I wonder just how many 'christian' sects there are on the planet now who all benefit from the original fraud. It may be that the Ethiopian Church is the only one with a valid claim. And even that came 400 years later via a Syrian Greek named Frumentius.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    .
    Reading history books is like reading newspapers.... If you want a balanced and nuanced understanding regarding a particular issue or event you must read a number.
    ^ Yup.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    so, it's in the origin of species then? the biological basis for human bigotry? which chapter?
    All kinds of ugly human behavior has a biological basis: racism, tribalism, aggression, xenophobia, oppression of women, and yes, homophobia. The challenge of our time is to collectively grow out of it.

    Here is some reading for you. Hint: read it all the way through before denouncing the author as homophobic, to avoid looking foolish.


  7. #42
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    First, I mean if the slave economy changed to a free economy.

    Second, I already recanted my earlier opinion.
    Going back through the thread I see that there was a cross post. Please ignore my #34.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    All kinds of ugly human behavior has a biological basis: racism, tribalism, aggression, xenophobia, oppression of women, and yes, homophobia. The challenge of our time is to collectively grow out of it.

    Here is some reading for you. Hint: read it all the way through before denouncing the author as homophobic, to avoid looking foolish.

    Your author needs to step out of his narrow specialism and read some history.
    At different times and in different cultures, homosexual behaviour has been variously approved of, tolerated, punished, and banned. Homosexuality was not uncommon in ancient Greece and Rome, and the relationships between adult and adolescent males in particular have become a chief focus of Western classicists in recent years.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/homosexuality
    It would seem that homophobia was a Judeo-Christian construct, The admonition to not spill their seed, and to bed their brothers widows, .based on the Jewish need to breed like rabbits to replace warriors lost in all the fights that were endemic to their relationships with their neighbours.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #44
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    It would seem that homophobia was a Judeo-Christian construct...
    Right. That's why it's not a problem in the middle east, Asia, etc...

  10. #45
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    All kinds of ugly human behavior has a biological basis: racism, tribalism, aggression, xenophobia, oppression of women, and yes, homophobia. The challenge of our time is to collectively grow out of it.

    Here is some reading for you. Hint: read it all the way through before denouncing the author as homophobic, to avoid looking foolish.

    ok. so, not only is it not settled, "basic science", it is controversial even within a controversial branch of study, "evolutionary psychology".

  11. #46
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    i'm not saying evolutionary psychology is pure bunkum. but it might be.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    do clams have evolutionary psychology? fish? iguanas?

    at what level of the animal kingdom does hard wired psychology become crucial to the organism.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    i'm not saying evolutionary psychology is pure bunkum. but it might be.
    Why did I correctly guess you would think that?

  14. #49
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    because you knew that you had overstated your case, that there was no source that any serious person would take as definitive proof of your argument.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    Do clams have evolutionary psychology? fish? iguanas? At what level of the animal kingdom does hard wired psychology become crucial to the organism?
    I'd say that as far as clams and fish and iguanas have 'psychology' at all (fish and iguanas doubtless, clams not so much) it's all pretty much evolved, as much as legs and scales and gills. Dammed little culture and learning among those organisms.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  16. #51
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    No. Because your woke head would explode if you accepted evolutionary psychology.

    Funny how evolution gets attacked by fundamentalists on the left and right.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I'd say that as far as clams and fish and iguanas have 'psychology' at all (fish and iguanas doubtless, clams not so much) it's all pretty much evolved, as much as legs and scales and gills. Dammed little culture and learning among those organisms.
    exactly. and where do they demonstrate bigotry?

  18. #53
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    No. Because your woke head would explode if you accepted evolutionary psychology.

    Funny how evolution gets attacked by fundamentalists on the left and right.
    you said it was "basic science". you told me to "google it", which i did. i came up with nothing like settled science.

    finally, you "googled it" yourself, and came up with a presentation of opposing viewpoints on controversial theory.

    i laugh at the weakness on display.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    exactly. and where do they demonstrate bigotry?
    They don't have tribes, nor enough brain for bigotry. Chimpanzees do, FWIW, and they're often pretty unpleasant to members of other bands.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  20. #55
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Evolutionary psychology is basic science.

    It explains a lot of things, including your cantankerous attitude.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    lol

  22. #57
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Evolutionary psychology is basic science. It explains a lot of things, including your cantankerous attitude.
    Folks can take it much too far, though. It explains some basic tendencies, but certainly not everything. Human beings are a little more complicated than iguanas.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  23. #58
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Yes. Our reptilian brain doesn't explain everything. But it explains a lot, especially about emotions and impulses.

    Getting our reptilian brain under control is a
    must. But first, we have to acknowledge it.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Baxter for the win.
    Rattling the teacups.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Baxter for the win.
    You didn't read the whole article either.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Baxter for the win.
    (basic) science is written by the victors!

  27. #62
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    You didn't read the whole article either.
    are you still talking about that blog post titled "Natural homophobes?" complete with question mark.

    i mean, it didn't even make the magazine.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    You didn't read the whole article either.
    I never read any of your articles, anymore.
    Rattling the teacups.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Back to the topic: how about all the victors' history in the ra-ra version of World War 2 so many Americans learn in school and from movies? You know, the US saved the world from the Natsis, the atomic bombs (both of them!) had to be used to save lives, macArthur was a great general, etc., etc.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I never read any of your articles, anymore.
    It shows...

  31. #66
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Back to the topic: how about all the victors' history in the ra-ra version of World War 2 so many Americans learn in school and from movies? You know, the US saved the world from the Natsis, the atomic bombs (both of them!) had to be used to save lives, macArthur was a great general, etc., etc.
    yes, the US should have been nicer to Germany and not hyped up those concentration camps, let the genocidal maniacs in charge off easier

  32. #67
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    It shows...
    Why bother?

    It's always some thinly-masked, rightwing apologia.
    Rattling the teacups.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    Like I said, shows you didn't read it. Just like Hugh didn't read the post he responded to with a reptilian brain fart.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    If there’s a reptilian brain fart, it’s your reflexive “the us sucks” troll George. Now go post some crap conservative blog to justify your feelings.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: History is written by the victors

    本世纪的历史将这样书写
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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