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Thread: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

  1. #1
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    Arrow Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    I am looking for your help and new ideas please to help me select which design I should build next, currently I am looking at either a Somes Sound 12 1/2 (John Brooks) or a Caledonia Yawl (Iain Oughtred). Some background:-

    • I have built 3 boats so far, a Hartley TS16, a David Payne Snapper boat and an Iain Oughtred Gannet
    • I like glued clinker hulls and would like my next build to be glued clinker - it has something to do with the way the water chuckles past the laps and the boat slips through the water
    • I have a build space that is approx 6metresx6metres so the CY would fit diagonally (just!)
    • I am in my mid sixties and am not as nimble as I was when I used to slide out on the Fireball trapeze..............brill fun but no more
    • I would like a boat which I can rig, launch, sail, retrieve by myself which probably means either gunter or gaff rig
    • Somewhere between 16-18 feet is probably the sweet spot in terms of LOA though I am happy to look at others
    • I like beam on a boat so under 6 feet beam is probably too narrow for me - really I like stability as my balance is not what it was either
    • I would like to be able to mount an auxiliary motor on the boat for those days when the wind dies or you get caught on a lee shore - our you need to get safely out of a harbour.
    • I would like simplicity in raising and lowering sails which led me to Iain Oughtred's lugsail and mizzen sail rig on the CY
    • I like fair lines and beauty in the shape of the hull.
    • The boat will mainly be used on lakes and sheltered bays - not on the open sea.


    Hope this gives you enough to give me lots of new ideas, please do feel free to come back with comments and suggestions

    Regards Neil

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Sounds like a catboat, to me. If the mast were in a tabernacle, you'd be all set. I know, catboats are not normally clinker built. But it's not the law.\

    Of course, there is a WBF thread.

    -Dave

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Belle...16ft x 6ft beam clinker ply...





    http://www.belleboats.com/about-belle/

    I have a 14 ft x 6ft version (not this boat but essentially the same design and layout). At about 130kg it's as heavy/ long as I reckon I can hand launch with a trolley up and down a ramp. If you're car launching then a heavier dinghy still...the Somes Sound 12.5 would be also well worth looking at: a glued lap centerboarder but with more ballast that will show itself as it heels. Supposed to be good plans too.

    A 6ft beam dinghy is significantly bigger than a 5ft one, and a transom makes a boat feel 'bigger' on the same length. Once you get towards 17-20ft at 6ft and transom'd it crosses over into a dayboat and some feel 'over boated'. It's worth finding something about the dimensions you're looking at (maybe a boat show when they start again) and just seeing how you feel about it to hit your personal sweet spot. I lusted after an Irens BJ17, Caledonia Yawl then a Norfolk Oyster for some time 'till I looked at them in person, then instantly realised they were 'more boat' than I was comfortable with as a solo dinghy and would make impossible any hand launching.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-27-2021 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Belle looks very much like Spartina, from Bolger. I often thought she would be a perfect little daysailer, and she is just as pretty as the Haven or Brooks 12 1/2, and then you could trailer her much easier because there is no ballast sticking out. Check her out in 'Boats with an open mind'. And during the construction you can postpone the decision to rig her as a catboat or a sloop till the last.
    Frank

    www.oarandsail.nl

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Clint Chase Calendar Island 18 is 6ft beam. Lug yawl rig. Should be light and shallow for its size. Kitable. Transom should mean an outboard is possible.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Belle is a gorgeous boat and just the right size as you say - I agree that 16' is about big enough for a maturing gent, or at least that's what Herreshof thought. Like the idea that Belle has a lot less lead to tow around though I will be launching from a car towed trailer on good ramps. My motor launch (Bella !!) is 17' and 820 kg with the trailer and I can launch retrieve this.

    And yes, John Brooks plans are very detailed and complete, not sure if he makes a profit on the plans.

    Thanks to all for the responses so far :-) Regards Neil

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Another Bolger design is Harbinger. A discussion of the design can he found here - http://rosslillistonewoodenboat.blog...harbinger.html You could certainly use your preferred method of glued lapped ply for the construction.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Francois Vivier's Ebihen is offered in glue lap. 6ft beam 16ft. Arguably the easiest trailer sail rig in existance! Perfect outboard install infront of the rudder. A bit more keel though when you drop it back off a trolley but if you've got a good ramp into deepish water that doesn't dry out at low water it'll be OK. Waterballast when it pipes up.





    And lets not forget this 16ft'er Gartside 'Gozzo' boat. Over 7 ft beam lateen inboard motorsailer...glued options. Just because and nobody else is going to have one.

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-28-2021 at 06:31 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    I built and sail a Somes Sound. This design choice was somewhat a leap of faith for me. I didn't know anyone who had one nor built one. But I loved (still love) her lines and the SS inherits the performance and stability heritage of the H12 and Haven. My choice of design proved to be correct. The boat is fun to sail, relaxing, offers great stability (I too have balance issues.), and is easily launched and retrieved. Belle and others presented here are fine boats too. One can't go wrong with any but I'm not going to trade.

    My build thread: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...es-Sound-Build

    Jeff

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Thanks Jeff, yours was one of the threads that I have been reading - well documented build.

    One question for you - have you got auxiliary power onboard ? Perhaps a scull/sweep oar or an outboard? We do have some launch areas here which are very well sheltered but you really need some power to get out of the launch area and into open water............

    Regards Neil

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Neil, I use a Torqeedo 1003 model. It is on a side mount which is not the ideal place for an outboard but has always worked just fine for me. I didn't want to clutter up the pretty transom with a bracket. The Torqeedo moves the boat well. I also carry a long canoe paddle that I use if the conditions are very calm (a frequent thing on summer evenings here) and I don't have to go far to get back to my mooring. I sail in fairly protected water.

    I've also got a Honda 2hp outboard that I've used once. I prefer the Torqeedo because it's clean and quiet.

    Jeff

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    This boat meets "most" of your requirements, but not all.
    And I expect its an automatic "NO".
    But if you consider for a few minutes, it might work for you.

    Trika 540.
    trika_sailing01.jpg

    https://www.dixdesign.com/trika_sailing01.jpg

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Neil, I use a Torqeedo 1003 model. It is on a side mount which is not the ideal place for an outboard but has always worked just fine for me. I didn't want to clutter up the pretty transom with a bracket. The Torqeedo moves the boat well. I also carry a long canoe paddle that I use if the conditions are very calm (a frequent thing on summer evenings here) and I don't have to go far to get back to my mooring. I sail in fairly protected water.

    I've also got a Honda 2hp outboard that I've used once. I prefer the Torqeedo because it's clean and quiet.



    Jeff


    Hi Jeff,
    One more question if I may (!). I like the Torqeedos as well - did you buy a long or standard length shaft?

    Thanks Neil

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by neil.henderson View Post
    Hi Jeff,
    One more question if I may (!). I like the Torqeedos as well - did you buy a long or standard length shaft?

    Thanks Neil
    Standard length. Buy the option with the big battery. I've never run out of juice but it's nice to have a reservoir.

    Jeff

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    NeilI made a good start on the Somes, completing the transom, inner & outer stem, deadwood and tiller. see attached pics.


    Im still intent on completing the boat, to be called Slight Liszt, but with one house move and another pending, it has not had much attention recently.


    I do hope you go ahead, as there are very few builders and none in Oz. It would be good to share ideas and resources.


    I have put quite a bit of time into establishing the Oz equivalent of timbers the American use.


    I have also put John Brookes Part Lists into a spreadsheet so they can be sorted by Name and cross referenced as to where to find the part to the Instructions, Plans and Timber Lists.


    Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.
    Pete.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by AussiePete View Post
    NeilI made a good start on the Somes, completing the transom, inner & outer stem, deadwood and tiller. see attached pics.


    I’m still intent on completing the boat, to be called ‘Slight Liszt’, but with one house move and another pending, it has not had much attention recently.


    I do hope you go ahead, as there are very few builders and none in Oz. It would be good to share ideas and resources.


    I have put quite a bit of time into establishing the Oz equivalent of timbers the American use.


    I have also put John Brookes Part Lists into a spreadsheet so they can be sorted by Name and cross referenced as to where to find the part to the Instructions, Plans and Timber Lists.


    Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.
    Pete.

    Hi Pete,
    Think I just found your reply !?! I do find using this forum and Facebook a bit mind bending at my age......................

    I have used quite a bit of Hoop pine in my other builds (3) and was planning to use this in the SS at least in the areas which are not to be varnished - e.g. keelson, inwale, deck beams, etc.................. I am even thing of steaming it to make the stems (inner + outer). I tend to get ply from Brunyzeel in Sydney and was planning to do the same again. Haven't thought too much about spars yet though a birdsmouth is appealing and lightweight which would be good. I have spoken with the people at CentralFoundry in Sydney and they could pour a lead keel for me though it would be rather expensive. Have you got a source for your keel yet? Central foundry were talking in terms of 9-10 dollars/kilo to pour the keel.

    Happy to share ideas and sources of info.

    Regards Neil

    p.s. I didn't see your photos in this post - are they in another thread?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Neil, My building blog is at http://downudersomesound.blogspot.com
    Pete

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Next build - which design to pick? Ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    I built and sail a Somes Sound. This design choice was somewhat a leap of faith for me. I didn't know anyone who had one nor built one. But I loved (still love) her lines and the SS inherits the performance and stability heritage of the H12 and Haven. My choice of design proved to be correct. The boat is fun to sail, relaxing, offers great stability (I too have balance issues.), and is easily launched and retrieved. Belle and others presented here are fine boats too. One can't go wrong with any but I'm not going to trade.

    My build thread: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...es-Sound-Build

    Jeff
    I simply love the H12,1/2; Haven and Somes Sound designs. Just about the perfect boats in their class. Jeff, yours in mighty fine!!!

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