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Thread: Woke

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Much of the scholarship has been about the US, but you can find scholars in the UK talking about it
    https://legalresearch.blogs.bris.ac....tol/#more-1256


    the moral panic and frankly insane ramblings about it by people who seem to care nought about what it actually is, is much more a US thing so far.
    From your linkey
    n the 2018/2019 academic year, Yvette Russell and I will be (for the first time) teaching a unit called Law and Race. It is a very exciting prospect, not least because there are very few law schools in the UK who teach race in any direct or focused way, and much fewer have a unit dedicated to race. This has been an intellectually stimulating enterprise for both of us, and in this article, I would like to explain why we have embarked on it and what we hope to achieve.
    So that would be two scholars
    We have been working to stamp out institutional racism since the Lawrence Enquiry, and with our laws on hate and discrimination, I would hope that we are well ahead of the curve.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  2. #142
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    From your linkey
    So that would be two scholars
    We have been working to stamp out institutional racism since the Lawrence Enquiry, and with our laws on hate and discrimination, I would hope that we are well ahead of the curve.
    how many scholars do you think are talking about it in the us? Actual scholars. Not schoolteachers falsely accuse by a crazed rightwing mob, like so
    https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/...29399984357378

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Woke

    So if only a handful of scholars talk about it, isn't it premature to want to teach it to schoolchildren as if it were a consensus?

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    So if only a handful of scholars talk about it, isn't it premature to want to teach it to schoolchildren as if it were a consensus?
    thank you for once again using a Republican talking point as if it were truth. What children, where? Law schools and graduate programs don’t usually teach to children.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    how many scholars do you think are talking about it in the us? Actual scholars. Not schoolteachers falsely accuse by a crazed rightwing mob, like so
    https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/...29399984357378
    I have no idea, being as I live in the UK.
    Which is why I am not participating that much in this U S Centric thread.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  6. #146
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    thank you for once again using a Republican talking point as if it were truth. What children, where? Law schools and graduate programs don’t usually teach to children.
    Wherever it can be foisted on an unassuming institution.

    DESIGN A CULTURALLY SUSTAINING MATH SPACE
    CENTER ETHNOMATHEMATICS

    • Use culturally relevant, antiracist pedagogy, practices, and curriculum.

    • Cultivate mathematical identity so that everyone can see themselves as mathematicians.

    • Identify and challenge the ways that math is used to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views.

    • Expose students to examples of people who have used math as resistance. Provide learning opportunities that use
    math as resistance.

    -- A Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction
    Dismantling Racism in Mathematics Instruction
    Exercises for educators to reflect on their own biases to transform their instructional practice

    (2021) https://equitablemath.org/wp-content.../1_STRIDE1.pdf

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1He-...BkidcYo9c/view

    Immediate Actions: If an issue of racial slurs, hate speech or a related incident
    occurs, the principal/assistant principal will:

    4. denounce the act within the school campus and broader school community.

    cited in https://www.washingtonpost.com/educa...eory-backlash/
    "Denounce" indeed. F you, Maoists. Eat S, puritans. Schools, wake up. You better have tens of millions saved up for attorneys' fees and judgments if you start in with this S.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Woke

    Hmmm... let's see if I can do anything with all of this --


    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    I asked you a question relating to a simple but fundamental point and you didn't answer. In that sense, discussion ceased.

    If you asked a question, I'm afraid I may have missed it. What was the 'fundamental point'... and what was your question regarding it?

    So, again. You say a little CRT is OK, too much is bad.

    I said that? It doesn't sound familiar. What did I say precisely, that got you there? What words?

    You're wrong. CRT is wrong from the get go.

    I'd have to disagree. First about it being a question of 'right and wrong'. More like 'is CRT a useful tool for analysis? Is it a perspective which can illuminate anything?

    And second, if you must view it thru that particular lens, that CRT would be more wrong than right. My own read... if I torque my brain far enough to fit into your construct... would be that it's more right than wrong.


    To illustrate this, answer these yes or no questions:

    1. Property is an unalienable human right.
    2. Capitalism is not the source of all oppression.
    3. The capitalist state, and capitalism, should not be overthrown by force.

    1. I'd have to say no, without any additional context or caveats. But there always are. One can create a system where one has property rights, and it CAN be a just system. Does that answer?

    2. Correct... again stated so nakedly.

    3. Once again you insist on a yes/no format for something that has no universal yes/no answer. My best attempt would be: correct, until it it was necessary to.


    If you answer yes, you are in irreconcilable fundamental conflict with CRT. That is the point at which liberalism ends, and CRT begins. CRT is anti-liberal.

    Can't conceive of how you'd come to those conclusions
    But I don't get how any of that forwards a discussion.

    Or is that your aim? It strikes me more, perhaps, as someone attempting to frame the discussion than explore it collegially...
    Last edited by David G; 06-15-2021 at 07:43 PM.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    And there we go. Labeling someone with whom one disagrees as a "dingbat" is a great way to encourage collegial discussion.
    Are you still pondering the existence of 'examples'?

    Maybe this perspective - the 'because it's bound to be fruitless' bit of wisdom - will help...

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Are you still pondering the existence of 'examples'?

    Maybe this perspective - the 'because it's bound to be fruitless' bit of wisdom - will help...
    If we're depending on Bill Murray to figure out how to talk to each other, we have bigger issues. That aside, while I can understand flying off the handle on occasion, in general, the best way to talk to someone & learn from them is to treat them with respect & listen. No doubt there are those who have nothing useful to say or those who cannot back up claims, but instead of labeling or name calling, why not just move on? How does calling someone a dingbat improve communication?

    There are a number of folks here with whom I disagree on certain topics (though I have never in my life met a person with whom I disagree 100%) - and I've had some decent back & forth with them. However, shrill replies calling people one disagrees with names or categorizing or the like, simply gets in the way of a conversation. If one doesn't want to hear what another has to say - fine - walk away - but don't try to drown out the conversation others may be having.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    "Here in the Bilge, the intolerance manifests as instantly label someone you disagree with as a troll & you never have to deal with hearing their opinion again. If you don't want to carry on a conversation with the person - fine - don't - but let others talk."



    As I am likely one of the folks you two are railing against...
    Actually I am not railing against you. You mostly offer C&P step back - there is nothing uncivil about that. I have no problem with that. More importantly I am not railing against any person, but rather against how some resort to ad hominem attacks instead of responding with comments on the topic. If you say something respectfully, and you usually do, I don't care how different our views are.

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Woke

    Texas governor signs law banning discussion of racism
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas...da8bd76bf50?k6
    but it’s the wokes fault and the real victims are conservatives (who aren’t talking aim at someone, except when they are, because they lie lie lie)

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Woke

    When it comes down to it the problem is a bunch of the people complaining on this page are just tribal twits who want to have safe discussions that make them feel ok. They are more than fine insulting other people, regularly, they just don’t want to be insulted for their own poorly thought out ill informed crap. You are the problem too buttercups.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    If we're depending on Bill Murray to figure out how to talk to each other, we have bigger issues. That aside, while I can understand flying off the handle on occasion, in general, the best way to talk to someone & learn from them is to treat them with respect & listen. No doubt there are those who have nothing useful to say or those who cannot back up claims, but instead of labeling or name calling, why not just move on? How does calling someone a dingbat improve communication?

    There are a number of folks here with whom I disagree on certain topics (though I have never in my life met a person with whom I disagree 100%) - and I've had some decent back & forth with them. However, shrill replies calling people one disagrees with names or categorizing or the like, simply gets in the way of a conversation. If one doesn't want to hear what another has to say - fine - walk away - but don't try to drown out the conversation others may be having.
    When I've gone thru my "give 'em a chance" protocol, and concluded that they will join the ranks on the Ignore List... I do 'just move on'. Mostly. Sometimes... some helpful character (despite muliple pleas over a long period of time) quotes such a one. And sometimes, I fail to ignore and get sucked back in (yes, I'm easily offended by jackassery).

    But you think it's impolite, and will short-circuit some nascent bit of illumation, if I give warning by stating the results of that protocol?

    To me, such an action seems light-years less impolite than the dingbats multiple instances of dodging, lying, deflection, flinging of logical fallacy after logical fallacy, denial, refusal to answer a straight question, etc. etc. But, I guess tastes differ, and I'll certainly cop to the fact that I have little patience with dipspittery. But if you honestly regard it so, then by your approach... maybe you should 'just move on' instead of complaining when I give warning? Or is there a relevant distinction that I'm missing, and that precludes such a path? Because, from this point in the peanut gallery is looks a bit like, "It's ok for me to complain about comments I find (objectionable, unhelpful, obnoxious, stifling, unfriendly, or... whatever), but I'd prefer you didn't".
    David G
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    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #154
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    Default Re: Woke

    Well sheesh. Anyone know I'm right & you're wrong - so there underwear!

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Well sheesh. Anyone know I'm right & you're wrong - so there underwear!

    No... what everyone knows is that people as tall as you do not have access to sufficient oxygen - at that elevation - to maintain clear thinkering. No fault of their own, really... but in fairness, people should know that you've turned down several offers to lop off enough height to rectify the malady <G> And then there's that age thing I mentioned elsewhere
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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