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Thread: Woke

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    this is the positive way many understand the term. marxism my ass.

    it becomes negative if the awakening becomes ideologically driven to absolute judgments and implausible legal notions.
    Conservatism becomes negative when it turns Red.

    They took the word from you and you let them. You felt you needed them in the coalition so you let them in, did not challenge them, and they took over.

    Litmus test:

    1. Is capitalism the root of racism?
    2. Is capitalism the root of all oppression?

    That's how you find the Marxist woke.

    Bret Weinstein was woke, by your definition. This what they did to him:



    These young people didn't turn into the miserable little squirms they are without the help of Marxist professors. Note the attack on free speech. As with racism, it doesn't matter if it "stokes the threat" intentionally; only it that was the result. And who is judge, jury, and executioner of this offense? Why the people, of course. The oppressed, freedom loving, socially conscious -- my ass -- people.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Woke

    Woke this morning, eye balling the couch right now to get un-woke, any other definition is BS.

  3. #73
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    8:02

    You ask: "Do we get to talk about it?" And they say "No."

    To talk about it is to question it. Not allowed. To even mention it. To manifest your false consciousness any way, shape, or form. Confess your oppressor's privilege, immediately, without reservation, or else. Precisely what they did with Bret Weinstein.

    Just like Stalin and Mao. It's who they are. You think they can be brought into a coalition to "protect our democracy"? You are strongly deluded, just like all the former Republicans.


  4. #74
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Woke is good. Very good. Much needed.

    Hyper-woke... pulingly politicially correct... is both annoying and counter-productive.

    Those who dismiss the former by referring to the regrettable existence of the latter tend to be simple-mindedly clueless... or are actively trying to muddy the waters, as they have something to hide.
    This seems to be holding up well...
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Woke

    Woke is good. Very good. Much needed. Hyper-woke... pulingly politically correct... is both annoying and counter-productive.

    This seems to be holding up well...
    Not bad. Many things are excellent in moderate doses, very bad in excess.

    Those on the left (assuming we include the Marxists and beyond as part of the 'left') can be just as stupid and dangerous as those on the right.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Woke

    You and a supermodel wake up in a new york hotel. you are welcome.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-02-2021 at 11:10 AM.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    This seems to be holding up well...
    nah, most of the media frothing over “woke “ is from reactionaries nutpicking an excuse and bad faith bullying for power. The blame for all of this lies solely with those reactionaries and their desire to create grievance to preserve their power.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Woke

    Spain provides a historical example of how people who are too "woke" end up empowering the right.

    The Spanish Republic in 1931 was a progressive coalition. In a hyper-conservative backwards country, they tried to i
    mplement some progress - democracy, free speech, home rule for regions, union rights, women's vote, education, land reform. But the too-woke among them demanded more: defanging of the Catholic Church and stripping their assets, expropriating large land owners, etc. The hyper-woke wanted an outright revolution. This despite the fact that the majority of the people were way too Catholic and conservative to go along.

    When the Civil War started, a bunch of disparate factions on the right united immediately in order to win - they could work out what they would do in power later. The left, in contrast, managed to become more disunited in the face of the threat, with anarchists and Trotskyists wanting immediate revolution and communists following orders from the Comintern while moderates tried to keep it all together to fight the war.

    Result: war lost, hundreds of thousands killed, further hundreds of thousands imprisoned and tortured, and a fascist regime ruling Spain with an iron fist for 40 years.

    The problem with the woke is that they don't understand that politics is the art of the possible, and they don't understand Edmund Burke.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Woke

    Reactionaries always need tediously bad history to justify their rage.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Reactionaries always need tediously bad history to justify their rage.
    Your response is tedious. History is good - you should learn some.

  11. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Your response is tedious. History is good - you should learn some.
    My history book mentioned Spain had one of the lower church going rates in Europe pre-civil war. That doesn’t fit your tedious defense of reactionaries and bigots so you’ll ignore it. Because that’s what you do. Make sweeping inaccurate statements of belief rooted in the bigotry of the past, then run away.

    So run away.

  12. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Make sweeping inaccurate statements of belief rooted in the bigotry of the past...
    You mean like:

    Spain had one of the lower church going rates in Europe pre-civil war
    Actually, urban areas had lower church-going rates, but rural areas and places like Navarra were very Catholic. This is why the Republicans held on to madrid and Barcelona while the nationalists quickly dominated over half the country.

    Plus, most non-church goers were not anti-Church, but most Catholics were fervently pro-Church.

    You
    might notice that Spain had a lot more rural areas than large urban areas - a fact of relevance when fighting a war. You might also notice that anti-Church activity had the effect of uniting the right while dividing the left.

    You won't find anyone
    more atheistic and anti-religion than me in the Bilge. But facts are facts. Taking on the Catholic Church in Spain in 1931 was very, very stupid.

  13. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    You mean like:



    Actually, urban areas had lower church-going rates, but rural areas and places like Navarra were very Catholic.

    no, I mean like the latter half of the sentence Saying something is “very Catholic”

    carry on barfing Falange propaganda all you want

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Woke

    I suspect I know a lot more about Navarra and the civil war than you, my friend.

    Navarra is very Catholic to this day. You have no idea how Catholic it was in the 1930s.

    As for "barfing Falange propaganda", I could tell you what to do with that, but I would be banned and you are not worth it.
    My Basque family was torn apart by the Nacionales. My mom never really recovered. She is 93 now with advanced dementia, and she mutters on and on about it. Sometimes she thinks she is still nine years old, hidden in the cellar for months without going outside because she saw a falangista killing a "red" and my grandfather was afraid she would talk about it and "disappear".

    So think before you go around calling everyone who is not as naive as you a fascist. Try that in Europe and you'll soon regret it.


  15. #85
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    nah, most of the media frothing over “woke “ is from reactionaries nutpicking an excuse and bad faith bullying for power. The blame for all of this lies solely with those reactionaries and their desire to create grievance to preserve their power.
    You've quite accurately portrayed One Half of the equation.

    The left is also wasting time on internal strife, and being counterproductive in a variety of other ways... by taking the good (woke) into the not so good (hyper-woke/hysterical). The push-back comes not just from the dishonest correspondents on the right with an ulterior motive, but from their compatriots on the left who are interested in truth and accuracy as a basis for both platform and policy. Knowing that the hysteria always leaves a bad aftertaste for all. Perhaps you missed my example from the UUA?
    David G
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  16. #86
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    Default Re: Woke

    As for "barfing Falange propaganda", I could tell you what to do with that, but I would be banned and you are not worth it.
    Indeed. Sort of like me being an 'apologist for genocide'.

    Hugh, when you don't scream ridiculous insults at those who agree with you about 80%, maybe 90%, things are more likely to go better.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  17. #87
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    Man, more smug lectures from the bilge experts? What a great way to get along!

  18. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Indeed. Sort of like me being an 'apologist for genocide'.
    You are my patient and polite alter ego on these threads, Keith.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Woke

    Nah, just passive aggressive Midwest

  20. #90
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    ... said the active aggressive woke remedial student of history...

  21. #91
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    Maybe after another lecture from the bilge experts I’ll learn something, because you obviously know it all.

    But not enough to know when you sound like genocide apologists though. Look at those happy Uighurs with toilets dancing!

  22. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I suspect I know a lot more about Navarra and the civil war than you, my friend.

    Navarra is very Catholic to this day. You have no idea how Catholic it was in the 1930s.

    As for "barfing Falange propaganda", I could tell you what to do with that, but I would be banned and you are not worth it.
    My Basque family was torn apart by the Nacionales. My mom never really recovered. She is 93 now with advanced dementia, and she mutters on and on about it. Sometimes she thinks she is still nine years old, hidden in the cellar for months without going outside because she saw a falangista killing a "red" and my grandfather was afraid she would talk about it and "disappear".

    So think before you go around calling everyone who is not as naive as you a fascist. Try that in Europe and you'll soon regret it.

    A case could be made that Spain was the paradigm of how "the left" is shattered and then swallowed by the Communists, who are more determined, more organized, and more vicious.

    Some guy like George Orwell finds out the hard way -- lucky to escape over the Pyrenees with his life -- that "moderates" go in front of the Communist firing squad.

  23. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    A case could be made that Spain was the paradigm of how "the left" is shattered and then swallowed by the Communists, who are more determined, more organized, and more vicious.
    It's complicated.

    At first the Communists were not that influential in the Republic. But when all the democracies not only refused to help the Spanish democracy but also embargoed arm sales to them, while Germany and Italy sent actual troops and shiploads of weapons, the Communists were the only ones able to get weapons - from Stalin. That made them powerful and able to suppress the moderates like Orwell.

    Of course, the reason the de
    mocracies chose to stay aloof was the excesses of other radical leftists in the Republic. By being intransigent, the anarchists and Trotskyists actually created the conditions for their mortal enemies, first the Communists and then the fascists, to dominate.

    Can't you just see people like Hugh obsessing with having people like me and Keith executed, instead of fighting the actual enemy?

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Woke

    Hugh, I can tell from your positions and postures that you are a lefty armchair warrior. You sit comfortably in your safe space of filtered information and prejudice. You never visit the front lines to see what it's like to actually engage the enemy. Instead you verbally attack people on your own side that you convince yourself are traitors.

    How about getting off your purity perch and joining the fight? Co
    me down here to a meeting with ranchers who are stripping forest into soybean plantations, or fishers who want to poach in a protected area, and help us convince them not to. Help me defend against the four separate bogus criminal proceedings the government is moving against me. Help us fight a fascistoid government while maintaining the support and respect of the local community, without which we might be in jail by now.

    I guarantee you that in no ti
    me, you will either learn how to engage respectfully, hold your nose, and get some sausages made, or you will be chewed up and spit out faster than you can say 'barfing Falange propaganda'.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Woke

    But really if you think the problem is online purity warrior over woke people creating a backlash….. that’s my point. The problem that’s supposedly creating this backlash doesn’t exist.

  26. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Oh F off. There are maybe 8,000 members of the communist party in the usa. Maybe. Which is about equal to the current Klan.
    8,000 party members, tens of millions of dupes

  27. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Sit down and shut up. You already had your turn and now it is over. Better yet, please leave as you are no longer wanted here.
    Sorry for the delay, I was dealing with matters of substance. I don't want you to think I wasn't able to take up your challenge.

    And so --

    Good for your mother and the horse she rode in on, good and hard.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Woke

    i do believe you have misunderstood our teddy

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Woke

    Seeing Ted's post quoted above, I went back through the thread looking for the whole quote or the context. What I found is that quote, in italics standing alone. Now would be a good time for Ted to provide some clarification if he meant something other than what it reads as. Like before someone shows it to Scot.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

  30. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Oh F off. There are maybe 8,000 members of the communist party in the usa. Maybe. Which is about equal to the current Klan.
    That's as may be. How about applying the litmus test to your own thinking, to clarify matters:

    1. Property is an unalienable human right.
    2. Capitalism is not the source of all oppression.
    3. The capitalist state, and capitalism, should not be overthrown by force.

    All you have to do is say yes. If you do, you're on the non-Marxist side of the line. If you say no, then, in honesty, you have to explain how you arrived at Marxist conclusions from non-Marxist premises. Because those conclusions place you on their side of the line. I urge you to understand, lest you join me in front of the firing squad, that they won't be receptive to your arguments. They are not tolerant in that regard. You must not only embrace their conclusions, but the premises and reasoning by which they were reached. Without question, without refinement, without anything not authorized . . . IOW, Left authoritarianism. Your only choices are complete surrender and subjugation, or some alternative, such as you may be able to construct. Better get on it right away, it's later than you think.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Woke

    Since you guys enjoy the subject so much:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/11/o...gtype=Homepage

    If the message is that being born white is something akin to the Roman Catholic concept of original sin, then there’s bound to be a backlash among the moderate voters who came around to Democrats in the Trump era.
    The longtime liberal strategist Ruy Teixeira warned of this very thing in his newsletter in May and said moderates are afraid to push back. “The administration is doing nothing to head off this impending culture war in the schools because to do so would bring the wrath of the stridently woke sector of the Democratic Party down upon Biden’s head,” he wrote.
    So the correct term is "stridently woke". Some here certainly qualify for that descriptor...

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Woke

    The it’s the hyper wokes fault takes just look dumber every day, but bilge libs keep doubling down.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    The it’s the hyper wokes fault takes just look dumber every day, but bilge libs keep doubling down.
    I'd NEVER say it's their 'fault'. They are reacting TO the fault. But over-reacting, and thereby mostly not helping.

    Anyone who says it's their fault... or uses the hyperbole to discredit the main argument... is either clueless or shamelessly disingenuous. If I were but Zeus... THAT is where my aim would focus.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    The it’s the hyper wokes fault takes just look dumber every day, but bilge libs keep doubling down.
    Straw man. The 'hyper-woke' are indeed a problem. They certainly aren't the only problem, nor the worst one by a very long shot. But they inadvertently give aid and comfort to the troglodytes, and unnecessarily divide those of us who oppose them.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Woke

    Yup. Bilge libs always have to legitimate the bad faith cretins of the right.

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