Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 123 ... LastLast
Results 36 to 70 of 155

Thread: Woke

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    8,340

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Not at all. I blame them for helping the RWW get elected.
    It’s the wokes fault Republicans invent woke outrages to be outraged over? The bilge libs are really blind when it comes to the working of the grievance machine it seems. I’ve posted a reputable source describing just this, I guess you were too busy to read it?
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 05-26-2021 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    8,340

    Default Re: Woke

    Here’s conservative David french
    https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-gop-becomes-what-it-once-despised
    The GOP Becomes What it Once Despised

    Turning their backs on the First Amendment, Republicans are making Marcuse great again.

  3. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    14,987

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Come on up and get your shots. Spare bedroom and even will take you sailing.
    Thanks, but that would be using privilege to cut the line, like so many of my countrymen who can afford it.

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    40,417

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I wouldn't know. We don't get any here. America first, even though you have a huge surplus.
    Admittedly not a ton - but better than the last administration. 80 million: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...-the-pandemic/
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    It’s the wokes fault Republicans invent woke outrages to be outraged over?
    To a degree, yes. The wokes invent outrages. The Republicans invent some too. The woke ones lend credibility to the Republican ones, for uncritical minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    The bilge libs are really blind when it comes to the working of the grievance machine it seems. I’ve posted a reputable source describing just this, I guess you were too busy to read it?
    There's more than one machine.

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    It pains me to think that when the other side takes power again they may swing the pendulum too far, setting the stage for a return of the RWW.
    Yes, they would be at least partly responsible, wouldn't they? Like they were for the failure of the Democrats to win a filibuster-proof majority . . . setting the state for the return.

    The Progressive Stack: An Intersectional Feminist Approach to Pedagogy", was not accepted; the authors were three times advised to revise and resubmit. The paper suggested that "educators should discriminate by identity and calculate their students’ status in terms of privilege, favor the least privileged with more time, attention and positive feedback and penalize the most privileged by declining to hear their contributions, deriding their input, intentionally speaking over them, and making them sit on the floor in chains ..." One reviewer asked how privileged students could be made to "feel genuinely uncomfortable in ways that are humbling and productive", but not "so uncomfortable (shame) that they resist with renewed vigor".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia_(journal)
    The progressive stack is a technique used to give marginalized groups a greater chance to speak. It is sometimes an introduction to, or stepping stone to, consensus decision-making in which simple majorities have less power. The technique works by allowing people to speak on the basis of race, sex, and other group membership, with preference given to members of groups that are considered the most marginalized.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_stack
    The infamous Evergreen College affair concerned a proposal to extend the principle to "A Day Without White People" during which they would be barred from campus. I guess you still have to decide, when they are back the next day, whether they will be allowed to speak.

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I used to think I was a liberal minded social democrat but now I know I’m just past my “sell by” date.
    O Brave New World.

    Nobody wants moderation in all things now, it’s all ideological purity and intolerance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    We’ve been here before; it never ends well.
    Puritans can be some mean mother Fers, history shows. Some for real cruel, sadistic monsters.

    But then history was invented by the privileged.

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    So anyone know what the word "woke" really means in these conversations? . . . I mean, all of these words represent an enormous set of splinterings and differentiations and caveats and qualifications between the groups being defined and "given voice," and all of the theories are rather promiscuously sharing fluids with each other and morphing into new and different things.
    Having this in common: a rejection of the ethics of rationality. So, they're not different.

    Scientific knowledge is a social construction on a par with myth, superstition, religion, and political orientation, which are therefore entitled to the same respect, prestige and funding as science.
    So sweeping a principle makes equal legitimate of every form of knowledge, and every means of producing it. E.g. science rejects astrology in order to protect the privileged. The aim is to de-privilege everything, so there seems to be a lot of different things going on. Strip away the academic horse S -- produced and paid for in bulk -- and take them at their word as to fundamentals, all the nuance is seen to be illusory.

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    53,805

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Hate crimes are different from hate speech. Is "I hate people who eat peanut butter" hate speech? Is "I like people who eat puppies"?
    Hate crime covers both the written word and the spoken word in the UK.
    Did you not bother to open the link that I provided?
    These aspects of a person's identity are known as 'protected characteristics'. A hate crime can include verbal abuse, intimidation, threats, harassment, assault and bullying, as well as damage to property. The perpetrator can also be a friend, carer or acquaintance who exploits their relationship with the victim for financial gain or some other criminal purpose.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    downward bound
    Posts
    8,340

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    To a degree, yes. The wokes invent outrages. The Republicans invent some too. The woke ones lend credibility to the Republican ones, for uncritical minds.



    There's more than one machine.
    Ah, so it was the former slaves fault whites got angry during reconstruction?

    No, it wasn’t.

    And the long history of white america inventing problems then using their invented problem to justify oppression doesn’t need to continue.

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Seattle area
    Posts
    756

    Default Re: Woke

    Quoted in the article linked in the OP:

    First and perhaps most important, focusing on cancel culture and woke people is a fairly easy strategy for the G.O.P. to execute, because in many ways it’s just a repackaging of the party’s long-standing backlash approach. For decades, Republicans have used somewhat vague terms (“dog whistles”) to tap into and foment resentment against traditionally marginalized groups like Black Americans who are pushing for more rights and freedoms. This resentment is then used to woo voters (mostly white) wary of cultural, demographic and racial change.
    It allows them and their supporters to pose as innocent victims of persecution rather than as aggressive culture warriors seeking to defend their privileges and reverse social change.
    In other words, the republicans have been playing this card since forever - certainly since the 1990s, well before "wokeness" became a headline - and they've been playing it to the same audience: reactionaries who fear any change from the status quo.

    "Wokeness" may indeed be a political liability for the democrats, but that's nothing new. If the republicans weren't playing the victim to "wokeness", they would be playing the victim to "social justice". If not "social justice" it would be "equal rights" (as in the equal rights amendment); if not "equal rights" it would be "family values", etc. I have yet to see, from those on the left who want to complain about "wokeness", any explanation for why this is substantively different from any of the "values" issues that republicans have been whipping themselves into a frenzy over for decades. Can anyone do so in 500 words or less?

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    16,787

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I am using it in the sense that the article in the OP uses it.

    As you can see, a couple of Bilge rats think it applies to them, and are lashing out.
    i for one would wear the label proudly. well, at least, indifferently.

    the one lashing out is you. because you got caught running your mouth, making up "science" to normalize your own prejudice.

    all you have to do is link some of the legitimate science--maybe to the lab that isolated the gay hate gene?--and you win, i lose. you don't link it because it doesn't exist. so you lay out some insults and ridicule and hope the details get lost in the ruckus.

    i won't forget who i'm talking to or why. where's the basic science, george?

    ~wokey mcwokerson

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    40,417

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Hate crime covers both the written word and the spoken word in the UK.
    Did you not bother to open the link that I provided?
    Sorry - brain dead guy here missed the link.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    53,805

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Sorry - brain dead guy here missed the link.
    No wukkas.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  15. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by pandelume View Post
    In other words, the republicans have been playing this card since forever - certainly since the 1990s, well before "wokeness" became a headline - and they've been playing it to the same audience: reactionaries who fear any change from the status quo.
    Since the 1890's. Since 1849, the California gold rush, when tens of thousands of American WASPs arrrived and were astonished to find that Mexicans and Chinese were living there. It wasn't that they feared change; they wanted possession of the land and racial purity. The fact that this was not already the case made them victims the moment they arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by pandelume View Post
    "Wokeness" may indeed be a political liability for the democrats, but that's nothing new. If the republicans weren't playing the victim to "wokeness", they would be playing the victim to "social justice". If not "social justice" it would be "equal rights" (as in the equal rights amendment); if not "equal rights" it would be "family values", etc. I have yet to see, from those on the left who want to complain about "wokeness", any explanation for why this is substantively different from any of the "values" issues that republicans have been whipping themselves into a frenzy over for decades. Can anyone do so in 500 words or less?
    Reds are citing wokeness as just one more thing that victimizes them at the same time they are constructing a wokeness of their own. That should inspire one to at least examine the phenomenon. Satisfy yourself that there's no connection, because if you just take it for granted that there isn't, you could find yourself on the S lists of both Red and Blue, unable to formulate a defense against either.

    Liberal democracy -- use it or lose it.

  16. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    Woke is good. Very good. Much needed.

    Hyper-woke... pulingly politicially correct... is both annoying and counter-productive.

    Those who dismiss the former by referring to the regrettable existence of the latter tend to be simple-mindedly clueless... or are actively trying to muddy the waters, as they have something to hide.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  17. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Ah, so it was the former slaves fault whites got angry during reconstruction?

    No, it wasn’t.

    And the long history of white america inventing problems then using their invented problem to justify oppression doesn’t need to continue.
    Take away the Red narrative on wokeness and wokeness is still there. In fact, Reds are constructing their own wokeness even as they complain.

    The Red criticism of wokeness is almost total horse S. Same old tribalist victim narrative masquerading as a fight for "freedom". Ironically, Redness shares the fundamental principles of wokeness. Substitute tribal loyalty for social justice, and you've got it. Same anti-objectivity, same Puritanism, same "strong objectivity". Reds are woke. Michel Foucault says masks are tyranny.

    Experts have taken over our lives. They rule us not so much through law as through constant, pervasive coercion, exercised through institutions outside the state. Setting themselves up as secular priests, they claim to possess both objective truth and moral authority. Taken in by their ruse, we grant these experts the power to tell us who we are and what we should do with our lives. They, in turn, attempt to soothe our anxieties with “scientific” answers to our problems.

    These are the complaints of a growing number of American conservatives, who are adding to their long-held distrust of the state a new suspicion about the power of managerial and therapeutic experts over everyday life. They are also the concerns that animate the work of Michel Foucault, the French philosopher who remains a reviled figure for many on the Right.

    The recent publication Confessions of the Flesh, the English translation of a previously unavailable volume of Foucault's four-part History of Sexuality, offers an opportunity to see his ideas afresh. From the vantage of this new book, Foucault’s work appears to offer not only theoretical support to conservative critiques of the “new class” of experts but also a sobering warning that the roots of expert power lie deep in Western culture. Our liberation depends not so much on eliminating expertise as on developing a new sort of relationship to it, one that might take inspiration from the history of Christianity.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...s-of-the-flesh
    Liberal criticism of wokeness, Red or Blue, by contrast, comes straight from the heart of liberalness.

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    14,987

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Woke is good. Very good. Much needed.

    Hyper-woke... pulingly politicially correct... is both annoying and counter-productive.
    So we can call hyper-woke what other people are calling woke. That's progress.

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    59,274

    Default Re: Woke

    Our liberation depends not so much on eliminating expertise as on developing a new sort of relationship to it, one that might take inspiration from the history of Christianity.
    Good God. Liberation from knowing what works and what doesn't.

    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    So we can call hyper-woke what other people are calling woke. That's progress.
    My wife is a Unitarian Universalist minister and a practicing Buddhist. It's a 'big-tent' denomination and quite liberal. An ongoing battle within the organization is to keep what I call 'bandwagon liberalism' from overheating internal policy and pushing the national organization into taking well-meant but overblown policy positions. It is never-ending, as each new 'enthusiasm' surfaces and is over-reacted to. They are, relatively speaking, a 'woke' bunch. But all too prone to slipping into 'hyper-woke'.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  21. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    14,987

    Default Re: Woke

    well-meant but overblown policy positions
    leading to the loss of rings and fingers...

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    leading to the loss of rings and fingers...
    That's funny. Ha. Ha.

    Now do you have a substantive response?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  23. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    50,437

    Default Re: Woke

    In theology school in the early '70s I was working on a theologically radical thesis and people were surprised that I had two conservative scholars. The reason I went to Andover Newton was my principal reader, Roger Hazelton, who wrote some remarkably economical little books with titles like "Ascending Flame, Descending Dove". But the real conservative was Gerald R. Cragg who specialized in protestantism in the Age of Reason - latter 16th and whole 17th centuries. He'd been ordained from the Methodist wing of what became part of the United Church of Canada. And, while theologically conservative, he was unafraid to give any idea a fair hearing and an intellectually respectful albeit often blistering critique.

    As head of the chapel committee he tried to rein in our enthusiasms for folk songs, non-Christian holy texts, and so on. He deeply loved the austere basic prayer service that revolved around beloved bits of Bible in the "King James" version and a sermon that exegeted the two texts. Our in-committee gag was that he believed in "salvation by exegesis".

    So he was not amused when I proposed texts from Aquinas and Claude Levi-Strauss with a . . . not really a sermon but more a philosophy lecture . . .

    "You Unitarian-minded people are like those modern muesli cereals: hard to digest, possibly nutritious, but no real taste."

    At least we've woke to get past that ancient Unitarian version of Trinitarianism:

    "The Fatherhood of God;
    "The brotherhood of man; and
    "The neighborhood of Boston."

    Now:

    "The parenthood of the universal;
    "The personhood of all beings; and still
    "The neighborhood of Boston."

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    14,987

    Default Re: Woke

    Sure. I agree with you. The hyper-woke, if you like, either force more realistic progressives into supporting untenable positions or form a circular firing squad to purify the ranks. The reactionaries win either way.

    I a
    m probably more radical than 99% of the people here, including the self-identified "woke". You have no idea what I would do if I could run the world my way and convince most people to go along with it. But human nature is what it is, utopian fantasies lead nowhere, and all change is incremental.

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    14,987

    Default Re: Woke

    ^ in response to David G.

  26. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Sure. I agree with you. The hyper-woke, if you like, either force more realistic progressives into supporting untenable positions or form a circular firing squad to purify the ranks. The reactionaries win either way.

    I a
    m probably more radical than 99% of the people here, including the self-identified "woke". You have no idea what I would do if I could run the world my way and convince most people to go along with it. But human nature is what it is, utopian fantasies lead nowhere, and all change is incremental.
    Boy Howdy!

    It was a lesson I struggled with early in my efforts as an activist. And that many people here in the bilge clearly have not yet grasped.

    [That 'human nature' thing, btw, is the core fact that makes true and relevant that old aphorism, "Capitalism is the worst economic system invented... except for all the others". I think it would be more helpful, though, rephrased as, "Poorly regulated capitalism may be one of the worst economic systems ever invented, while well-regulated capitalism, while still flawed, is probably the best". But that's another topic. Don't want to send us off on a tangent on ground that well-trodden already.]
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  27. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Woke is good. Very good. Much needed.

    Hyper-woke... pulingly politicially correct... is both annoying and counter-productive.
    "A little bit of nerve gas adds aroma, but too much spoils the dish."

    It's morally wrong from its first principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Those who dismiss the former by referring to the regrettable existence of the latter tend to be simple-mindedly clueless... or are actively trying to muddy the waters, as they have something to hide.
    Stop muttering. Out with it.

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Good God. Liberation from knowing what works and what doesn't.

    Nature cannot be fooled, someone once said. Space shuttle go boom.

    Accordingly: "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves." -- Richard Feynman

  29. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    "A little bit of nerve gas adds aroma, but too much spoils the dish."

    It's [wokeness] morally wrong from its first principles.
    I would disagree. But perhaps we define the thing that is 'woke' differently?

    How would you define it? I'll offer two views below. You can either respond to/correct them... or start fresh... or agree. What ever works for you --

    What is a definition of Woke?
    Woke is a term that has come into the mainstream from what can be called African American English. It is a term, which refers to an awareness of social justice and in particular racial issues. The “woke” movement began in the African American community and the acceptance of black liberation theology, another name for Marxism. The movement has expanded into other perceived social justice areas. In brief, “woke” is the term used to explain an awakening to issues of race, gender, and sexual injustice.


    It can be hard to trace slang back to its origins since slang’s origins are usually spoken, and it can be particularly difficult to trace a slang word that has its origins in a dialect. Woke’s transformation into a byword of social awareness likely started in 2008, with the release of Erykah Badu’s song “Master Teacher”:

    Even if yo baby ain't got no money
    To support ya baby, you
    (I stay woke)
    Even when the preacher tell you some lies
    And cheatin on ya mama, you stay woke
    (I stay woke)
    Even though you go through struggle and strife
    To keep a healthy life, I stay woke
    (I stay woke)
    Everybody knows a black or a white there's creatures in every shape and size
    Everybody
    (I stay woke)

    Stay woke became a watch word in parts of the black community for those who were self-aware, questioning the dominant paradigm and striving for something better. But stay woke and woke became part of a wider discussion in 2014, immediately following the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. The word woke became entwined with the Black Lives Matter movement; instead of just being a word that signaled awareness of injustice or racial tension, it became a word of action. Activists were woke and called on others to stay woke.

    Like many other terms from black culture that have been taken into the mainstream, woke is gaining broader uses. It’s now seeing use as an adjective to refer to places where woke people commune: woke Twitter has very recently taken off as the shorthand for describing social-media activists. The broader uses of woke are still very much in flux, and there are some who are woke to the broader implications of woke:

    “Woke” feels a little bit like Macklemore rapping in one of his latest tracks about how his whiteness makes his rap music more acceptable to other white people. The conundrum is built in. When white people aspire to get points for consciousness, they walk right into the cross hairs between allyship and appropriation. -- Amanda Hess, New York Times, 16 Apr. 2016
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  30. #65
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Woke is a term that has come into the mainstream from what can be called African American English. It is a term, which refers to an awareness of social justice and in particular racial issues. The “woke” movement began in the African American community and the acceptance of black liberation theology, another name for Marxism. The movement has expanded into other perceived social justice areas. In brief, “woke” is the term used to explain an awakening to issues of race, gender, and sexual injustice . . .
    . . . according to Marxist principles. I can work with that.

    I wasn't aware that black liberation theology was a development of Marxism. But then, they've been re-branding ever since Stalin.

  31. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    [QUOTE=Osborne Russell;6460009]. . . according to Marxist principles. I can work with that.

    I wasn't aware that black liberation theology was a development of Marxism. But then, they've been re-branding ever since Stalin.[/QUOTE

    But you said the Woke Movement is morally wrong from its first principles. That's a strong statement, and I still disagree. What makes you take that stance? Or are you modifying it?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  32. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    23,578

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    . . . according to Marxist principles. I can work with that.

    I wasn't aware that black liberation theology was a development of Marxism. But then, they've been re-branding ever since Stalin.
    But you said the Woke Movement is morally wrong from its first principles.
    Do you see some discontinuity between the two statements?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    That's a strong statement, and I still disagree. What makes you take that stance? Or are you modifying it?
    It's Marxism with all the defects, and none of the good parts; plus a huge amount of ignorance, hypocrisy, dishonesty, Puritan viciousness, and aught else that may be attempted by someone who believes the end justifies the means.

    And in the current state of affairs, a mortal danger to liberal democracy and the nations built upon it. Wokers may not always say it, but they don't have to, because others have already said it on their behalf. They don't deny it, because they can't. Neither can you.

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    <sigh>
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    16,787

    Default Re: Woke

    In brief, “woke” is the term used to explain an awakening to issues of race, gender, and sexual injustice.
    this is the positive way many understand the term. marxism my ass.

    it becomes negative if the awakening becomes ideologically driven to absolute judgments and implausible legal notions.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    74,646

    Default Re: Woke

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    this is the positive way many understand the term. marxism my ass.

    it becomes negative if the awakening becomes ideologically driven to absolute judgments and implausible legal notions.
    And if it inspires ambiguous, misleading, and easily-attacked labels that can be used to deflect discussion from the actual topics. Like 'Defunding' police...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •