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Thread: Critical race theory

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    You seem to have quite the menagerie.
    I'm considering opening a zoo. One of the prime motivations to move out of downtown onto some property <G>

    How about you? Am I your only one?
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Short attention span.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    BLM protests in Portland --

    Portland protests: Who turned out night after night?

    Thousands of peaceful protesters gather in downtown Portland in mid-July after President Donald Trump deployed federal agents into the city, which he called an "anarchist jurisdiction." The arrival of the feds, and their escalated violent response, caused a second wave of uprising in the city. Upwards of 8,000 protesters, including the “Wall of Moms,” packed the downtown area.



    Rage, anger and anxiety brought Dominic Williams to Portland streets again and again last summer – the image of George Floyd’s last breath under the knee of a police officer seared into his memory.

    “All those mixed emotions from watching that video … I just wanted to do something,” Williams said.

    A year later, the 27-year-old has put his passion on hold – dancing and choreographing – to go all in on organizing for racial justice.

    Sarah Rascoe marched in the protests from the beginning and went out nearly every night. Born and raised in Southeast Portland, the 40-year-old said Floyd’s murder showed the world what she’s seen since she was a girl: a policing culture and justice system that fears and brutalizes Black people.

    “I don’t want my generations of youngsters to continue to go through this,” she said.

    Rascoe has stopped going out now, saying the Black Lives Matter message has gotten drowned out by demonstrators who have a different aim.

    Cole Cunningham, 39, said the toll of nights coughing through tear gas and pepper spray, getting thrown down to the ground or shot by rubber bullets led him to stop protesting.

    “Ultimately, I didn’t have it in me,” he said. “I was like crying every night, having terrible dreams. Couldn’t do it.”

    Williams and Rascoe are Black. Cunningham is white.

    The three are among thousands of people moved to join Portland’s firestorm of protests. For months, they flooded the streets as Floyd’s death left millions of Americans grappling with stark truths about anti-Black violence in their cities.......


    https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021...-portland.html
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Short attention span.
    Sokol was last millenia, update your priors.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Yeah, right, the abolition of slavery and the entire civil rights movement did no good at all, only 'served the interests of dominant white groups'.
    Many people think that $15/hr minimum is a good step toward improving the economy. At least for the poor. I disagree. I look at what college the median graduate earns and realize that those who are limited by a $15/hr minimum wage will never have the wealth that a college graduate will have. Those working for minimum wage or the wages that high school graduates earn will seldom pass much economic advantage on to their kids.

    I see the "advances" - abolition of slavery and the civil rights movement, in the same light. They will never make the races equal. It does make white people proud to count the advances that blacks as a race have made - relative to historical norms. But understand the real issue is that many white individuals want to keep their privilege and advantage over other races.`

    I remember a comment on this board a while ago about how they believed that the next 50 years will see an improvement in racial issues. That is 2 generations. I will not be around then. I don't see any reason for seeing improvement over any time frame.
    Life is complex.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    those who are limited by a $15/hr minimum wage
    It's supposed to be a floor, not a ceiling.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Many people think that $15/hr minimum is a good step toward improving the economy. At least for the poor. I disagree. I look at what college the median graduate earns and realize that those who are limited by a $15/hr minimum wage will never have the wealth that a college graduate will have. Those working for minimum wage or the wages that high school graduates earn will seldom pass much economic advantage on to their kids.

    I see the "advances" - abolition of slavery and the civil rights movement, in the same light. They will never make the races equal. It does make white people proud to count the advances that blacks as a race have made - relative to historical norms. But understand the real issue is that many white individuals want to keep their privilege and advantage over other races.`

    I remember a comment on this board a while ago about how they believed that the next 50 years will see an improvement in racial issues. That is 2 generations. I will not be around then. I don't see any reason for seeing improvement over any time frame.
    I thought Bill Clinton made a great deal of sense when he tried to explain that helping people go to college is not spending, but investing. He pointed out that college grads almost always make more money throughout their lives than non grads, and simply by making more money they pay more taxes, so whatever investment the government made in college costs comes back many times over.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Sokol was last millenia, update your priors.
    Huh?

  9. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Rascoe has stopped going out now, saying the Black Lives Matter message has gotten drowned out by demonstrators who have a different aim.
    Right. Very significant, eh?. Only this "journalist" couldn't be bothered to ask what that different aim is, how Rascoe learned about it, etc. Or, more likely, she knew god damn well what it was, but was afraid to say so.

    "Tsk, this person doesn't protest anymore, couldn't be the takeover by ideologues, it must have been the tear gas."

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    I think CRT needs to expand its definitions. Humans use "race" as a shorthand or proxy for socioeconomic differences and as a pseudoscientific justification for an innate antipathy for people who are 'other.' Think of the prejudice against the Irish in the US in the 1840s. Its hard to find whiter people than the Irish. Similarly, Northerners often ascribe indolence, ignorance, incest, inbreeding, and lack of education to white people who speak with a drawl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    I think CRT needs to expand its definitions. Humans use "race" as a shorthand or proxy for socioeconomic differences and as a pseudoscientific justification for an innate antipathy for people who are 'other.' Think of the prejudice against the Irish in the US in the 1840s. Its hard to find whiter people than the Irish.
    Catholics swamping a Protestant nation.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Whatever the difference was, a racial stereotype was used as a justification for 'No Irish Need Apply' signs, etc. I'm not sure they were really 'swamping' the nation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    Whatever the difference was, a racial stereotype was used as a justification for 'No Irish Need Apply' signs, etc. I'm not sure they were really 'swamping' the nation.
    Of course they were not. No immigrants, whether Mexican, Irish, Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese, middle eastern, sub-Saharan African or whatever is capable of swamping an existing nation.
    But that does not stop the RWWs and Little Englanders from being very afraid.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    It's supposed to be a floor, not a ceiling.
    I think there is a race to the bottom. Thus a limit.
    Life is complex.

  15. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I thought Bill Clinton made a great deal of sense when he tried to explain that helping people go to college is not spending, but investing. He pointed out that college grads almost always make more money throughout their lives than non grads, and simply by making more money they pay more taxes, so whatever investment the government made in college costs comes back many times over.
    A summary of his efforts: https://clintonwhitehouse5.archives....tyears-05.html

    Considering that the top schools report more admissions from the top 1% (economic) than from the bottom 60%, there has been little benefit for the poor. You might notice that current efforts are aimed at reducing the cost for the middle class rather than admitting the poor.
    Life is complex.

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    I think CRT needs to expand its definitions. Humans use "race" as a shorthand or proxy for socioeconomic differences and as a pseudoscientific justification for an innate antipathy for people who are 'other.' Think of the prejudice against the Irish in the US in the 1840s. Its hard to find whiter people than the Irish. Similarly, Northerners often ascribe indolence, ignorance, incest, inbreeding, and lack of education to white people who speak with a drawl.
    That's like saying a bank robber needs to look for another line of work. He's been planning the job for years. You expect him to just drop it and go apply at Burger King?

    As critical race theorists we adopt a stance which presumes that racism has contributed to all contemporary manifestations of group advantage.
    ---
    Critical Race theory . . . borrows from several traditions, including liberalism, law and society, feminism, Marxism, poststructualism, critical legal theory, and nationalism.

    Words That Wound: Critical Race Theory, Assaultive Speech, and the First Amendment (1993) Mari Matsuda, Charles R. Lawrence III, Richard Delgado, and Kimberle Williams Crenshaw
    Note the attack on the First Amendment, AKA free speech. Why? Because an attack on free speech is an attack on liberal democracy. Who is sho nuff, up front, out and out, cut the bull S, opposed to liberal democracy?

    1. Reds
    2. Marxists

    Perhaps you speak of the Trumplicans threatening "our democracy". What do you understand "our democracy" to mean? Its principles? That which, if removed, would cause it to collapse? What are those principles? Do you support them? Do you undertake to defend them from all mother F ers? Do you understand what is at stake here?

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Some might find this interesting/useful ---

    Demonizing Critical Race Theory

    By Charles M. Blow
    Opinion Columnist

    Critical race theory is the political right’s new boogeyman.
    The theory, born in the 1970s among legal scholars, uses race as a lens through which to examine structures of power. It was, I would argue, a relatively obscure concept — not because it lacked merit, but because it was novel.

    That was until Donald Trump elevated it in order to attack it.
    In September of 2020, during the run-up to the presidential election, with Trump trailing in the polls, the Office of Management and Budget issued the following directive:

    “All agencies are directed to begin to identify all contracts or other agency spending related to any training on ‘critical race theory,’ ‘white privilege,’ or any other training or propaganda effort that teaches or suggests either (1) that the United States is an inherently racist or evil country or (2) that any race or ethnicity is inherently racist or evil.”

    Critical race theory was simply an analytical tool, but to some white people, the fact that white supremacy was overtly used to infect America’s systems of power with both racial oppressions and racial privileges is too much to handle. It is discomforting. It unravels the American myth.

    But critical race theory doesn’t diagnose the country as evil, even though it is beyond dispute that some evil people designed the architecture of racial oppression in this country and that there are still some who help maintain it.

    In fact, I don’t even believe that most people have any real concept of what critical race theory is. It’s just a collection of words that hint, to them, at agitation and aggrievement: a theory that mentions race and that is critical, or, in their minds, criticizes.

    Critical race theory began to stand for any teachings that challenged the narrative that white America had crafted about the country, and that unveiled any truths that it had tried to hide or erase.

    Identifying and challenging racism was seen by some as racist. Pretending racism didn’t exist — that merit and sloth, excellence and pathology, explained away racial imbalance — was viewed as egalitarian and unifying.

    So the rush by states across the country to ban the teaching of critical race theory in schools isn’t really about a real threat. Very few schools even teach C.R.T. as a core part of their curriculums, if at all.

    Republicans are using their tried-and-true playbook of fear mongering about the rise of otherness and the displacement of whiteness, the white patriarchy and a dominant white narrative.

    Critical race theory has simply become the latest tool.

    Right-wing politics in America is exhausted, out of ideas on how we should proceed and progress as a country, so instead they focus on maintenance: How can power and influence be maintained in its current form — white-controlled, largely by straight white men — or, how can we revert to a time in which they had even more power?

    This is done by whipping up hysteria in the base about something, anything, that threatens to bring about fuller inclusion of more people and an expansion of rights.

    This attack on critical race theory is no different than the rush during the Obama administration by states to ban Shariah law in state courts, even though there was absolutely no threat that Shariah law would be recognized or used in those courts. This is simply an extension of the Barack Obama-is-a-secret-Muslim conspiracy and the backlash to his presence in the White House.

    In fact, in the Republican primaries to pick a challenger to Obama in his re-election bid, Republican candidates were falling all over themselves to condemn Shariah law. However, in the 2016 primaries, the anti-Shariah law crusade died down. In its place, Trump vowed to ban Muslims from entering the country.

    The freakout about critical race theory is also not dissimilar from the ongoing attack on trans people, particularly people who were assigned male at birth. First came the introduction of a wave of “bathroom bills” that made it a crime to use a bathroom designated for a sex different from the sex you were assigned at birth. Most of these bills failed.

    Now states are moving to ban trans girls and women from participating in high school and college sports, although this is not really an issue. As Larry Strauss, a USA Today columnist, pointed out in April:

    “In the more than eight years since the California Interscholastic Federation (CIF) began allowing high school athletes to compete as the gender with which they identify — regardless of what they were assigned at birth — there has not been a single case in which a trans female athlete has been dominant enough to stir protest.”

    Just like these initiatives that Republicans whipped up to rail against were by and large not a problem, but rather a wandering outrage in search of a problem, critical race theory is not a problem.

    Republicans know that there are a few cultural buttons that they can push to easily generate enough fear and outrage to energize their voters and get them to the polls: the ascension of nonwhite people, the immigration of nonwhite people, a threat to white security, a displacement of white power and white culture, an expansion of rights for “the gays” and abortion.

    Republicans attack as a form of rallying cry.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/13/o...sultPosition=1
    David G
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    One thing both the proponents and the foes of CRT seem to overlook is the most destructive thing you can do with a theory is use it. Once a theory starts to get used, it immediately starts to show its deficiencies. It would be surprising to the point of unbelievability if humans were found not to have definable 'races." The city of Montreal, for example, does not have the distribution of human blood types that our knowledge of genetics would lead us to expect. However, if you reanalyze the data, separating people according to their language, either English or French, and their religion, either Catholic or Protestant, the ratios of blood types do conform to the expected distributions. This is because humans are strongly endogamous, that is, they tend to marry within their group, tribe, race. The racial distribution of various genetic diseases is also due to this phenomenon. It is extremely rare to find an African American with Tay-Sachs, or an Ashkenazi Jew with sickle cell.
    I have not seen any CRT explanation that accommodates this.

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    I agree with those whom claim the Republican critique is more 'hot-button ginned up talking point' than honest critique.

    Here's another example of same --

    An Alabama Republican who is trying to ban critical race theory was stumped when asked to define it

    https://www.businessinsider.com/alab...-theory-2021-6
    David G
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    If right wing criticism of CRT is not a bowl of S, it's by accident, one might say.

    But there's more to it than that. The great irony is that in attacking CRT, Reds are obliged to defend liberalism. They have absorbed a great deal of liberalism, though they will never admit it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Lots of white trash around your way, perhaps?


    Terming people as such is below you sir. It is no different than describing poor people of color as ghetto rats, or as from the 'hood.

    Kevin


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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    I believe the accurate reporting of history is a good thing.

    Accurate reporting of the present MAY be more important.

    Perhaps we can do both, but perhaps we cannot. If we cannot, which is more important?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I believe the accurate reporting of history is a good thing. Accurate reporting of the present MAY be more important. Perhaps we can do both, but perhaps we cannot. If we cannot, which is more important?
    Not at all mutually exclusive. We can do both (and should), one or the other, or neither; no necessary connection.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-16-2021 at 08:48 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I believe the accurate reporting of history is a good thing.

    Accurate reporting of the present MAY be more important.

    Perhaps we can do both, but perhaps we cannot. If we cannot, which is more important?
    The current moral panic isn’t about critical race theory, it’s about Republicans being offended by actual history because actual reporting of history makes some of their present political claims laughable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    The current moral panic isn’t about critical race theory, it’s about Republicans being offended by actual history because actual reporting of history makes some of their present political claims laughable.
    Ayup
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    And here's a useful perspective --

    The real reason Republicans are so riled up about 'critical race theory'


    Conservatives claim that schools are indoctrinating students in “critical race theory.” Liberals argue that conservatives don’t even know what critical race theory is — and that if they did, they’d realize teachers aren’t actually exposing kids to it.

    But a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll suggests that the roiling culture war over so-called CRT isn’t about whether today’s schoolchildren are suddenly probing the complexities of an academic approach to race that originated among legal scholars in the mid-1970s.

    Rather, the clash over CRT — aside from whatever the term now connotes in the public imagination — appears to be a supercharged spinoff of a deeper dispute between conservatives and pretty much every other group in the United States.

    According to the poll, the right largely believes that racism is personal — the product of one individual discriminating against another. The rest of the country mostly agrees that racism is systemic — a force that continues to harm people of color, regardless of how isolated individuals treat them.

    And therein lies the disagreement over what kids should learn in school...


    https://capitalbay.com/us-news/65568...ce-theory.html
    David G
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    the right largely believes that racism is personal — the product of one individual discriminating against another. The rest of the country mostly agrees that racism is systemic — a force that continues to harm people of color, regardless of how isolated individuals treat them.
    If the problem is so bad that only isolated individuals treat people right, then a simpler explanation is that racism is personal, and the vast majority are racist and will discriminate whenever they can.

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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    According to the poll, the right largely believes that racism is personal — the product of one individual discriminating against another. The rest of the country mostly agrees that racism is systemic — a force that continues to harm people of color, regardless of how isolated individuals treat them.
    Could it be that if systemic racism does not exist, then Government has no obligation to take time or spend money on dealing with it?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Or maybe the US right are just morons that believe whatever they are told to believe today. There’s no systemic racism but higher education is systemically biased against “conservatives” of course

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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    higher education is systemically biased against “conservatives” of course
    Or there is a correlation between being a RWW and being stupid.

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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Could it be that if systemic racism does not exist, then Government has no obligation to take time or spend money on dealing with it?
    Government has no business dealing with most things... according to the RWW's

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Or there is a correlation between being a RWW and being stupid.
    There's certainly a lot of evidence that would point that way...
    Last edited by David G; 07-01-2021 at 12:06 PM.
    David G
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    I have not seen righties argue against tax dollars going to political indoctrination at, for example, Utah State.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Government has no business dealing with most things... according to the RWW..
    no. That’s the lie they tell. In actuality government exists to favor them. “Freedom of religion” means freedom for Christian bigots, not so much Muslims or Pagans. “Freedom of speech” means the freedom for them to spew lies and bigotry, but not others to say truthful things that offend the rww snowflakes. Hundreds of billions in PPP socialism? That’s ok, as long as poor people don’t get a cent. The trans athlete hysteria? It’s just conservatives deciding what women can look like (short hair = man )

    just dumb bigots rallying around a mythic past they don’t understand, petrified at a changing world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    no. That’s the lie they tell. In actuality government exists to favor them. “Freedom of religion” means freedom for Christian bigots, not so much Muslims or Pagans. “Freedom of speech” means the freedom for them to spew lies and bigotry, but not others to say truthful things that offend the rww snowflakes. Hundreds of billions in PPP socialism? That’s ok, as long as poor people don’t get a cent. The trans athlete hysteria? It’s just conservatives deciding what women can look like (short hair = man )
    Quite true. I should have said, "... no business... unless it favors their agenda or their pocketbook..."
    David G
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    Default Re: Critical race theory

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    According to the poll, the right largely believes that racism is personal — the product of one individual discriminating against another. The rest of the country mostly agrees that racism is systemic — a force that continues to harm people of color, regardless of how isolated individuals treat them.
    There's another alternative. Even if current institutions were perfectly fair, the effects of the past don't go away that quickly. The effects of the injustices of previous times, whether practical effects like accumulated family wealth, or less tangible ones like membership in a social class, or cultural factors originating in the past and persisting for generations, can have a huge effect on how things go in the present.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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