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Thread: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

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    Default CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c-...?ocid=msedgntp


    Maybe there was another thread. I suspect this was prompted by the White House, an good move IMO. I heard Jonathon Swan (a really good Washington reporter IMO) say the other day the White House was increasingly frustrated with the messaging for vaccinated people coming out of the CDC. So I would not be surprised if this is the result.

    Regardless of the reason, its good news. It may prompt a few people to get vaccinated who were not intending to previously. I was thinking about the people who are resistant to getting the vaccine the other day. Perhaps the quickest way to motivate them is for everyone else to stop wearing masks. They have likely built up their "I am safe" mentality while being used to seeing everyone in public places wear masks (all the while complaining about masks). Now, they just might feel a little less safe, and a few of them might get vaccinated. Its easy to complain about masks. What happens when everyone quits wearing them at once?


    And its the dynamic we were heading towards: Everyone has had the opportunity to get vaccinated, so why protect the hold outs?

    But it does make one wonder how long it will be before retail businesses and restaurants stop requiring them.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    I currently sitting inside at a booth at my favorite cafe up in Silverado Canyon. Being that I’m fully vaccinated so its really nice not to have to wear a mask and walk in and sit down and enjoy some amazing Shrimp Moho, rice & beans with flour tortillas.

    Although my server and friend Roddy, is always wearing his mask as is everyone who works here.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    That experiment continues as well it seems.
    I carry a mask all the time, as a courtesy in case somene else feels more comfortabl if I do. Our vaccine rollout has been royally stuffed up and on the present schedule it'll be at least 18 montsh before everyone is vaccinated….and by that time most of the early recipients will be in line for their booster…….
    Last edited by skuthorp; 05-13-2021 at 03:11 PM.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Wonder why peb left out the key piece from the title?
    C.D.C. Says Vaccinated People Can Go Maskless in Most Places
    Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 05-13-2021 at 07:43 PM.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Critical point - how does one identify people who are fully vaccinated who no longer need to wear masks?
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    First, I think the CDC is correct to advise folks that when fully vaccinated, it's fine to be outdoors without a mask. Up here, the advice has always been that outdoors it's fine to be without a mask, provided that it's possible to do social distancing. Many people have chosen to wear masks regardless, but that's not been the advice.

    Second, the question is really going to be "why protect the hold outs?" Especially when the guidelines relax even further, recommending that fully vaccinated people may be unmasked in indoor settings too, with or without social distancing.

    And for me, that gets thornier. Because there are many reports of people seeking to fake their vacc status, and many more reports of people declining to get their second shot - or their first. How will one be able to trust that someone has been fully vaccinated, if there's a booming business in falsified vacc records already? Etc.?

    The people I'm concerned about are the folks with actual medical fragility which legitimately prevents them from receiving a vacc, even though they want one. If the "hold outs" merely endangered themselves, whatever. But they aren't. And through the potential of dragging the pandemic out at a low-level of infection for a long time ... they're providing the opportunity for the virus to mutate again into something which defeats some of the vaccines. Putting us all at risk again.

    That said, we don't require people going to a restaurant or movie theater to show vacc records for, say, measles. Or polio. Or etc. We don't require people who are HIV positive to show proof that they're taking effective treatment, on the off chance that we want to hop into the airplane bathroom with them for a quick shag. And COVID is, in principle, ultimately going to come to the same type of question for us.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Critical point - how does one identify people who are fully vaccinated who no longer need to wear masks?
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    First, I think the CDC is correct to advise folks that when fully vaccinated, it's fine to be outdoors without a mask. Up here, the advice has always been that outdoors it's fine to be without a mask, provided that it's possible to do social distancing. Many people have chosen to wear masks regardless, but that's not been the advice.

    Second, the question is really going to be "why protect the hold outs?" Especially when the guidelines relax even further, recommending that fully vaccinated people may be unmasked in indoor settings too, with or without social distancing.

    And for me, that gets thornier. Because there are many reports of people seeking to fake their vacc status, and many more reports of people declining to get their second shot - or their first. How will one be able to trust that someone has been fully vaccinated, if there's a booming business in falsified vacc records already? Etc.?

    The people I'm concerned about are the folks with actual medical fragility which legitimately prevents them from receiving a vacc, even though they want one. If the "hold outs" merely endangered themselves, whatever. But they aren't. And through the potential of dragging the pandemic out at a low-level of infection for a long time ... they're providing the opportunity for the virus to mutate again into something which defeats some of the vaccines. Putting us all at risk again.

    That said, we don't require people going to a restaurant or movie theater to show vacc records for, say, measles. Or polio. Or etc. We don't require people who are HIV positive to show proof that they're taking effective treatment, on the off chance that we want to hop into the airplane bathroom with them for a quick shag. And COVID is, in principle, ultimately going to come to the same type of question for us.
    Yeah. The devil is always in the details.

    I suppose that people who cannot get a vaccine for medical reasons will mask-up to protect themselves. Being a smaller part of the population, perhaps the availability of better masks for that group will become possible (N-95 types...) For people who choose not to vaccinate even if they could, what's the appropriate response if they choose not to wear a mask either? They will certainly put demands on medical services.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Right, but are you going to walk up to every person who approaches you without a mask to see if they've got their vax card? I don't carry mine, but I do have a photo on my phone.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    In the US, we can require vaccination documentation for a variety of diseases as a condition of attending school. I believe that, in normal times, we have required proof of vaccinations for travel to areas where certain diseases are endemic, or common. Certainly, we are required to vaccinate our pets against rabies.
    All of those vaccines, however, are fully approved, not approved on just an emergency basis.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    And fwiw, I believe that the Pfizer folks have now submitted or are in the process of finalizing the paperwork to submit their vaccine for full approval, rather than just on an emergency basis.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Like you can't find a vax card copy in the interwebs... The card is meaningless. A gov't issued card is the only way to ensure the person really has been vaccinated.

    As Tom says - my biggest concern is people who would get one but can't. I know several & they are at risk from the a$$holes.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    C.D.C. Says Vaccinated People Can Go Maskless in Most Places
    Big difference, isn't it?
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Right, but are you going to walk up to every person who approaches you without a mask to see if they've got their vax card? I don't carry mine, but I do have a photo on my phone.
    There's discussion happening at the G7 and G20 level, the World Health Organization and the International Civil Aviation Organization about the interoperable standards for international recognition of certificates or etc. for proof of vaccination (POV). Not unlike how there are international standards for passports, visas etc.

    Such documents aren't expected to be used domestically by many (if any) countries, but mutual recognition of effective vacc will be crucial for the resumption of meaningful amounts of international travel.

    Some models under discussion would use a QR code, either to carry the information about the person's vaccination (when, what vacc, what lot # etc.), or to electronically point to the existing secure databases including such information that already exist for personal health info. (At least in countries which have universal health care ... ) Not the only model under discussion, as there are obvious issues when people don't have access to the tech ....
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    There's discussion happening at the G7 and G20 level, the World Health Organization and the International Civil Aviation Organization about the interoperable standards for international recognition of certificates or etc. for proof of vaccination (POV). Not unlike how there are international standards for passports, visas etc.

    Such documents aren't expected to be used domestically by many (if any) countries, but mutual recognition of effective vacc will be crucial for the resumption of meaningful amounts of international travel.

    Some models under discussion would use a QR code, either to carry the information about the person's vaccination (when, what vacc, what lot # etc.), or to electronically point to the existing secure databases including such information that already exist for personal health info. (At least in countries which have universal health care ... ) Not the only model under discussion, as there are obvious issues when people don't have access to the tech ....
    I'm sure that a lot of that discussion revolves around the fact that some countries have approved certain vaccine for use and not others - do you then accept people vaccinated with, say, Sputnik, Sinopharm, Moderna, J&J, etc... I know that right now, international travel for SWMBO to go visit her mom is a nightmare - even though she's fully vaccinated.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Right, but are you going to walk up to every person who approaches you without a mask to see if they've got their vax card? I don't carry mine, but I do have a photo on my phone.
    It’s on my iPhone under favorites, I just click and show, kinda simple
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Big difference, isn't it?
    It wasn't intended by me
    I typed the title of the thread without putting too much thought in it. So whatever you think was implied, wasn't.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    It’s on my iPhone under favorites, I just click and show, kinda simple
    Yes, but we're talking about _others_ - not you. You know you're vaccinated and have a way to show it, but frankly, that's only as good as the image. People are forging those cards - so how good is the information contained in a similar image on someone else's phone?
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    I keep my vaxx booklet up-to-date, a requirement for professional seamen, even though I haven't gone to sea professionally for about forty years.

    (Not my booklet, obviously ...)

    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    I'm sure that a lot of that discussion revolves around the fact that some countries have approved certain vaccine for use and not others - do you then accept people vaccinated with, say, Sputnik, Sinopharm, Moderna, J&J, etc... I know that right now, international travel for SWMBO to go visit her mom is a nightmare - even though she's fully vaccinated.
    It's a problem alright. One which hasn't yet been solved.

    While I suspect that global interoperable standards will emerge over time, I think that they may well start as regional or as proxies for geopolitical spheres of influence.

    China, for instance, is already putting significant preference on those vaccinated with their product, and to my knowledge is much less sanguine about admitting anyone who is vaccinated with various of the others. Countries in the region with strong ties to China may opt to use that one ... I dunno enough about the Sputnik vaccine to have a comment.

    OTOH there's general consensus among the OECD countries on the protective capacity of Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, and J&J, even as opinions vary on the risks of administering those vaccines to this or that part of the population (the AZ is losing reputation, which I think is horrifying). So I'd expect that an OECD or similar agreement around proof of vacc with any of those products will emerge, probably extending to the Middle East and South America too. It's going to be influenced by the politics and economics of trade, as much as anything else.

    I'm actually going to be interested to see how this plays out in the longer run .. because what we do with COVID is setting precedents for what we'll do with any number of other vaccination programs, I suspect. Not unlike how 9/11 has influenced so much about how we've done air travel etc. since.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Critical point - how does one identify people who are fully vaccinated who no longer need to wear masks?
    You don't. We are transitioning from a model of "do this to protect everyone" to "worry about yourself". Both models have their flaws, the new model being people who can't protect themselves fully, but it where we are headed.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Aka “let stupid people kill the innocent”.

    Bad faith perpetual.
    Precisely - though I'd make it stupid selfish.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Continue to make Vaccinations absolutely completely rapidly readily available to everyone regardless Make them free, make operatives go door to door every door, equipped and ready. . go through the community and inform everyone. The UK government sent a communication to every single person they could about Aids HiV in the 80s at the start of the public awareness and fear of this unknown and hugely infectious disease, as it truly was then. we have just had a deca annual poulation census here, I spoke to the person who knocked at my door, having already received a paper letter in my mailbox, and an auto mail in my ebox. He said we seriously expect to contact every single person or family in this country, everyone, ? yes even nomadlanders, campers , off the gridders....
    Do this now with Vaccines, no exceptions BUT for those who say, thanks I understand, but no thanks. They will not 'be killing the innocents' and they are not stupid.
    If you and the vast majority of every one you know or meet is vaccinated, the anti vaxers are only a threat to themselves, and the risk of them catching it in the first place and transmitting it on is miniscule because every one else is immune, and is probably far less than the unfortunate, undeniable one in four million or some such, deaths from the vaccine itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post

    Except that one can buy, apparently, fake vaccination cards online ("freedom cards", I believe they're called).
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    It wasn't intended by me
    I typed the title of the thread without putting too much thought in it. So whatever you think was implied, wasn't.
    You've said you advocate vaccination, so I'm not accusing you. It was, however, an unfortunate omission.
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    You've said you advocate vaccination, so I'm not accusing you. It was, however, an unfortunate omission.
    But sadly, not a surprising one.

    Tom
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    You've said you advocate vaccination, so I'm not accusing you. It was, however, an unfortunate omission.
    To be quite honest, I still not for sure what I missed. I know it touched a nerve, but I can only guess my wording "almost all the time" was not accurate enough relative to " in most places".

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    to be quite honey, you missed this part, "if vaccinated". . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Oh, I get it. That should have been obvious from my post and of course the link. Of course, considering every serious response, you can see that it was. Only the two members who continually look to pick a fight were so slow as to not understand.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Oh, I get it. That should have been obvious from my post and of course the link. Of course, considering every serious response, you can see that it was. Only the two members who continually look to pick a fight were so slow as to not understand.
    I understand that you left out the most important qualifier in today's CDC announcement, and in the process, drastically misrepresented what the CDC actually said. And I was not surprised that you did. Please note that I did NOT accuse you of lying; I don't think you did. I think it was careless, and needs to be corrected, however.

    Nor am I surprised that, when an obvious inaccuracy in one of your postings is brought to your attention, you quickly denounce those who spotted your inaccuracy for "picking a fight." That fits the standard pattern around here pretty well.

    Tom
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Anti-Maskers Ready to Start Masking—to Protect Themselves From the Vaccinated


    https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/...JeZZaOv4z4TDv0
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Have you heard the latest among the anti-vaxxers? They are saying that vaccinated folks are “shedding” proteins from the vaccine. And guess what they are doing to protect themselves from the “shed proteins”. Yep, wearing masks and social distancing.

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Whoa - cross post!

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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Anti-Maskers Ready to Start Masking—to Protect Themselves From the Vaccinated


    https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/...JeZZaOv4z4TDv0
    beautimous
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    Default Re: CDC says we can stop wearing masks almost all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I understand that you left out the most important qualifier in today's CDC announcement, and in the process, drastically misrepresented what the CDC actually said. And I was not surprised that you did. Please note that I did NOT accuse you of lying; I don't think you did. I think it was careless, and needs to be corrected, however.

    Nor am I surprised that, when an obvious inaccuracy in one of your postings is brought to your attention, you quickly denounce those who spotted your inaccuracy for "picking a fight." That fits the standard pattern around here pretty well.

    Tom
    Tom, I left nothing out. I mentioned it applied to vaccinated people in the first paragraph. The link was from NBC news. Anyine with half a brain cell knew it applied to vaccinated people the very first post .

    So get a life, I don't have to be your nemesis. I gave my thoughts on the CDC policy and it's implications. The purpose was not to spell out what that policy was. I gave a news report for that.

    Grow up.

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