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Thread: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

  1. #1
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    Default Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    I'm a first-time poster with another tedious "which boat should I build" thread - hopefully, it's an opportunity for some entertainment for more senior members, and some education for me. I've looked through a lot of forum threads, but if there's one that covers exactly my ground, I'm afraid I've missed it.


    I'm trying to provide a lot of background to anticipate questions, but if you want to cut the chatter and get to the hosses, skip down to the bulleted list.


    I live in the mountainous interior of the American West, where almost all local waters larger than cattle tanks are reservoirs. These range from 25 acres to 250 square miles, in dammed canyons with walls of varying steepness, surrounded by mountains of varying heights.


    Winds vary by season, by time of day, and some days by the minute, and sometimes seem to blow from two directions at once. Long ago, I'm told, the savage summer thunderstorms were very predictable; I believe this to be a fiction. It's easy to get caught out, despite smartphone apps and modern meteorology. It's just as likely, of course, that any wind will die off just as soon as you've left the ramp, and a day sailing will become a day drifting.


    There's not much in the way of swells, excepting the largest lakes in storm, but there are waves and wakes, and chop can range from irritable to vicious. Other seasonal hazards include fast boats piloted by drunken wakeboard bros, closely followed by drunken skidoo bros, and trailed by drunken bass fishermen (who are game, but just can't keep up).


    75% of the terrain above and below water is rock, sometimes rounded, sometimes hatchet-sharp. The water can be warmish at the surface but hurtfully cold just a few feet down, and the bottom can drop from 6" to 60' just a few feet over. My home lake freezes for a few weeks each winter, but I'm within a couple hours reach of year-round water if I don't mind the cold.


    The best boats for my interests (birds, camping, healthful exercise, generally floating around) are probably canoe and kayak, and I've got one of each. Problem is, I just can't shake the desire to sail again, despite the fact that I live in the high, dry desert. I dream of a small boat that:


    - Rows well enough to be pleasurable in calm, and to come home a few miles against a fairly fresh wind without exhausting me.
    - Sails well enough to learn me a thing or two while being a bit fun, keeping in mind that I'm mostly potting single-handed around small waters in flukey winds.
    - Does the above with a sail rig that's easy for one person to reef or strike quickly.
    - Is reasonably dry in moderate conditions with 350-375 lbs. of humans and gear (me, spouse, kid, picnic, tent, etc.) and will resist swamping in an unanticipated wake.
    - Is sturdy enough (hull, keel, board & rudder) to survive a hidden snag or rocky outcrop, as well as endure hauling out on stony shores.
    - Floats well enough on its side so that I can attempt a self-rescue when I inevitably screw up.
    - Could potentially, eventually, handle open water on a larger reservoir, given more experience, due caution and situational awareness.
    - Will be happy spending its off time dry on its trailer in the driveway.
    - Won't take the rest of my life to build, given I have a toddler and a full-time job.


    NOTE: I don't need a boat that does any single one of these things very well; I'm just looking for one that does a selection of them moderately well, and doesn't absolutely suck on any point. And you'll be relieved to know that I don't want it to cartop too. I have an aesthetic yen toward double-enders, or at least slender transoms, but I accept that might not be compatible with my needs.


    Sailing experience: 8 years crewing my father's dream boat. This means that at 15 I could chart a course and solo sail a 36' Hunter across Chesapeake Bay, but last time I was out in a Sunfish it was a sorry disaster. I also spent enough time exiled to our wretched dinghy that anything that rows better than a bathtub still makes me happy.


    Building experience: this will almost not be my first build - I've built a single rowing scull in stitch & glue that turned out well enough, but I've never done anything along the lines of traditional boatbuilding. I am an experienced stage carpenter, which means I can follow a plan. It also means I'm really proficient at building things that last for 6 weeks and look good from 30' away in the dark. I delight in epoxy and opaque paint, and have a high tolerance for condescending comments at the boat ramp.


    Thanks for putting up with the long read, and any suggestions welcome, please.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Welcome to the Forum! I suspect you'll find a good discussion grows out of your first post.

    Do you have a particular length restriction for your building space? If so, a transom-sterned boat will get you significantly more interior space for you, another adult, and a toddler (which is the design brief if I've followed you correctly).

    I think there are plenty of modern designs that will do the things on your list moderately well:

    - Rows well enough to be pleasurable in calm, and to come home a few miles against a fairly fresh wind without exhausting me.
    - Sails well enough to learn me a thing or two while being a bit fun, keeping in mind that I'm mostly potting single-handed around small waters in flukey winds.
    - Does the above with a sail rig that's easy for one person to reef or strike quickly.
    - Is reasonably dry in moderate conditions with 350-375 lbs. of humans and gear (me, spouse, kid, picnic, tent, etc.) and will resist swamping in an unanticipated wake.
    - Is sturdy enough (hull, keel, board & rudder) to survive a hidden snag or rocky outcrop, as well as endure hauling out on stony shores.
    - Floats well enough on its side so that I can attempt a self-rescue when I inevitably screw up.
    - Could potentially, eventually, handle open water on a larger reservoir, given more experience, due caution and situational awareness.
    - Will be happy spending its off time dry on its trailer in the driveway.
    - Won't take the rest of my life to build, given I have a toddler and a full-time job.
    Ross Lillistone's Phoenix III design is one such boat--a bit on the small side, though, as your toddler gets bigger. It's fine for two adults, but starts to feel crowded after that. Glued lapstrake, but I'd say (having watched my brother build one), suitable for a motivated beginner. Looks like this:

    DSCF1728 (2).jpg

    A couple of trip threads you might find interesting if this boat design grabs you:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...nel&highlight=

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...Bay&highlight=

    You'll get lots more suggestions--it'll be fun to see what people bring up. Good luck deciding!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Caledonia yawl.

    With a toddler, don’t ever push so hard that capsize is even a remote possibility. This holds for every boat.

    Jeff

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    A Goat Island Skiff kit would get you on the water quickly. The balanced lug mainsail will drop right down into the boat when the halyard is released. Have that sail made with a deep reef available, and she'll be rock solid even when the wind kicks in hard.

    -Dave

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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Thanks for the replies!

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post

    Do you have a particular length restriction for your building space? If so, a transom-sterned boat will get you significantly more interior space for you, another adult, and a toddler (which is the design brief if I've followed you correctly).
    In either of my possible build areas, I'll have about 16' x 8' under cover. There's open space around, but I don't want to go much larger than that 16' for build, transport or storage. I'll probably spend far more time solo than with passengers, especially as a rank beginner, but I'd like to have enough capacity for the three of us for rowing and at least short, light weather sailing. The Phoenix III is one of the more attractive transom-sterned boats that I've seen, Tom, and from your adventures it looks like it might hit all the right points.

    I do have another inquiry specifically for you, though, because you're the Tom Pamperin who visited John Welsford and wrote about his Sei. That's a design that's really caught my eye - would you care to venture any comments about how it might or might not fit my bill, or pros and cons versus the Phoenix III in my context?

    The Caledonia Yawl is beautiful and capable, but it looks like a bit more boat in all respects than I need. Given local conditions, I also expect to spend quite a lot of time rowing, and I ran across a comment from Iain Oughtred that he made no compromises for that purpose and was surprised that it rows as well as it does. I'd be interested to hear from any owners who are happy rowing their CYs against the wind.

    Dave, I'll take a good look at the Goat Island Skiff. It does seem like a simpler and speedier build (and one that might be more tolerant of my shortcomings as a builder). I'm reading good things about both sailing and rowing the GIS. I have to admit that there's something about it visually that just doesn't make my heart sing, but I bet I'd get over that pretty fast on the water.

    I hope a few more folks will chime in.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    SEI is significantly smaller than the Phoenix III, and honestly, even the Phoenix III is going to feel pretty small with another adult and a toddler aboard. Well, the toddler should fit fine, but of course toddlers don't stay toddlers for long!

    I love SEI, but I wouldn't want to take even one passenger for sailing. For rowing, that would be fine with 2 adults and a toddler, I think. But it's such a small boat that, for sailing, you sit on the hull, not a bench or thwart. I came away thinking SEI is a perfect solo boat. Other people may be more tolerant of crowding aboard small boats--I really don't like it myself.

    A slightly bigger (volume) boat than the Phoenix III that fits your length target would be Clint Chase's "Calendar Islands Yawl" design. This one's a beauty, with balance lug main and a small yawl mizzen. Especially with the daggerboard option, more interior space than the Phoenix III with about the same length. Available as a CNC kit, I think, which would speed up the build considerably if that matters to you.

    The Goat Island Skiff is a FANTASTIC boat! Yes, it's simpler in looks, and a bit slab-sided, but honestly, having watched quite a few sail (and sail VERY well, and fast), you may not be able to find a better sailer that's so simple to build. I know less about her rowing capacity, but there's at least one GIS sailor on the Forum who has camp-cruised in a GIS pretty extensively on the Maine Coast.

    Francois Vivier's "Ilur" design is short, but I suspect has significantly more volume and interior space. Rows decently from what I've heard, though perhaps not quite as well as the Phoenix III. I think it'd be an extremely safe, good passenger boat. There are quite a few Ilur builds going on in the Forum right now, and again, CNC kits available from Clint Chase, I think.

    Some of John Welsford's designs would be well worth looking at, too. Walkabout, or some of the earlier designs like Rogue, Truant, etc. (though again, those are probaby not optimal rowing boats, except for Walkabout).

    Another idea is to build a very cheap simple "temporary" boat to get started more quickly (a Bolger, perhaps, or some other simple flat-bottomed boat). As you use that boat, your ideas about what you need in your "real" boat will change considerably. It can be a really useful process (although if you're as lazy as I am, your "temporary" boat may end up sticking around for a lot longer than expected--not that that's a bad thing!)

    A final thought: It would be well worth exploring, with complete honesty, how much your potential passengers are really interested in being passengers. It took me WAY too long to accept that my wife has essentially zero interest in boats (other than her kayak), and there was nothing I could do about that. The bright side of that is, I don't need a boat that will take passengers, or make any concessions to the comfort and safety of others. There's only myself to worry about!

    Good luck. Always fun to watch people choosing a design.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Tom,

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    A final thought: It would be well worth exploring, with complete honesty, how much your potential passengers are really interested in being passengers.
    Well, bingo. My wife loves being on the water, but she's never sailed at all, and after too many canoe trips being the "beaver pelt" (her family's term) she wants to paddle her own boat. I'm going to need to learn to sail halfway competently before we even try it together, and unfortunately, there's not much in the way of sailboats to rent or borrow around here. I'm looking for a boat that I can use with passengers, but that I can love solo, just in case.

    And you haven't got a corner on lazy either; any temporary boat that's a good fit is quite likely to turn out to be the boat of the next decade. If there's a Bolger design that might work for me, I'd love to hear from someone who's actually built and used that boat.

    Thanks for your thoughtful responses!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    If your lady is leaning towards a boat of her own and aesthetic considerations aside, you might think about a pair of Mirror Dinghies. As a "proof of concept" platform they might give you an inexpensive means of testing the waters, as it were. They can usually be had (when you can find them) for a few hundred bucks although you'd have to wander a bit from Flagstaff to find them. If you're planning on building, I'd do something else as they're only available as kits and rather expensive ones at that, but they're a startlingly capable little boat.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    As far as the looks of the GIS, you know as a theatre guy that paint can make anything look like anything. Not the GIS here, but an example of how a plain boat can look quite fine.


    -Dave

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    I think 15 feet boat like GIS is a bit too small for your needs. The Caledonian Yawl is IMHO is too big, heavy pricey boat. The first weighs 128 pounds, the second 450 pounds. Something between the two would better suit. Some wonderful, nice, handsome, smart, humble, funny, industrious person, who also happens to look a lot like and sound a lot like me, wrote up a list of over 500 rowing boats. You should be able to find there in the 16 to 17 feet range, at a guess a beam 4ft 4 would suit . Looking at the specs above, and comparing against list below,, I find shearwater by Joel White, NorthEaster by CLC, and Drake 17 by Clinton Chase,, there maybe a couple others i missed to boot
    http://www.tackingoutrigger.com/rowboat3.html

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Hey Crowbark! Welcome to the forum. You will find many helpful hands here. I joined this forum almost a year ago to learn how to build a trimaran and go sailing with it. I am still learning, but I got my boat on the water the first time about a month ago and have been living the dream ever since.

    So have you considered CLC's kayak sailrig? It converts your "standard wooden kayak" to a trimaran, and sails wicked fast. I am still tweaking mine, but it is very stable. I started out trying to build my own, but I am a better builder than a designer. All the guys here kept gently advising me to get the sailrig, and I am very glad I did. I didn't buy the kit, I am pretty handy with tools so I just bought the plans. Two things I don't like about the sailrig -
    1. it is so wide that I have to disassemble before I get it on the car or trailer (Georgia has a limit of 102" before special stuff has to be used). I takes me about 30 minutes to get it completely assembled, mast raised and sail rigged at the water.
    2. getting in and out of the boat requires getting wet, there is no way to dock/beach without at least getting in shin deep water because you have to climb around the amas. I am still working on figuring out a way to stay dry.
    Other than that, it was very easy to build and is very stable on the water. Due to my inexprience, there were several times in the past month that I probably would have capsized in a monohull boat. The trimaran is very forgiving to a Soldier pretending to be a Sailor.

    I plan to build a tandem, probably stitch and glue next, with a sailrig also. Good thing about the sailrig, if you want to paddle instead of sail, just leave the sailrig at home. A tandem / triple kayak with a sailrig will give you the capacity you want. CLC has a triple kayak that will fit you, your toddler, and your wife. I am actually giving that one serious consideration for my next build. But also lets you sail it solo if your wife is scared of sail boats like mine is (she will come around once I get her out though ).

    I don't want to hijack your thread, but if you want to learn from my mistakes, feel free to check out my build thread "newbie needs help with small diy trimaran...".

    You will find some very generous, respectful, kind, and helpful mentors on this forum. Dave (woxbox), Todd Bradshaw, Dusty Yevsky, Jerry (jmanflyer), upchurchmr, and jfitzger just to name a few that have helped me a lot. Especially Dave and Todd. Todd is the resident sail making expert. I can't prove it, but it seems like Dave must have been a Navy Admiral at one time during the age of sail.

    So I will shut up now so others with more experience and knowledge than me can help. If you want specifics about the CLC Sailrig, feel free to pm me. Enjoy!

    -Lee
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    I'm going to guess that the GIS, while ticking a lot of boxes (right size, easy to build, etc) is going to be perhaps a little too tippy for you. It's lightweight for a reason -- to be a very high performance sailboat! Some people have tried ballasting it, but perhaps something that is a little more heavily built / less of a high-performance planing dinghy would make sense?

    If you like the look of the Phoenix III, there is a quicker-to-build variant called First Mate.

    If you want something bigger in terms of capacity, you could look at the boat that I'm currently building -- Tom Dunderdale's Apple 16 (build thread here) -- http://www.campionboats.co.uk/apple-range.html (the web page is somewhat hard to navigate, but the designer is very responsive). It has pretty similar dimensions to the GIS but it's not flat bottom and it's more like 200-250lbs (depending on choices of wood, etc), and the designer says you can put a few hundred pounds of ballast in it if you want a less tippy ride. And, it's still in the same general time-frame to build as the GIS, as it's still stitch and glue -- the photos at the end of that thread (currently) are at 270hrs total (I would think the GIS is certainly faster to build, but not half the time... and some GIS builds have been 500-600hrs...), with not much to do on the hull left -- and then spars and foils.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    I use a tiny Summers Breeze to do everything on your list - Mostly solo, but my wife and I can fit in this 11-1/2 foot boat, and even squeeze in camping gear for a few days. But I'd say it's to small for you.

    SAM_6254.JPG

    Next size up, and a decent pick would be the "200 dollar" version of the Bolger Featherwind.
    Here is a shot of mine, fitted with a home-sewn 100 sq. ft. balanced lug rig. It will easily carry a family and camping gear. Rows fine, sails great!

    SAM_7241.JPG

    It is very easy to build, and is intended to be light enough to car-top, saving you the expense of a trailer.

    SAM_6378.JPG

    Only four sheets of 1/4 ACX plywood needed. If you want to go sailing next month, this is the boat to choose! I built mine outside, took me two weeks at the lazy pace I work at.
    As you can see in the top photo, I strap 2" foam wrapped in leftover tarp material around the insides of all my skiffs for flotation. I've never needed it, but it makes me feel more secure when playing on huge lakes in high wind.

    SAM_6390.JPG

    If you don't feel like making a sail, these boats work very well with a Sunfish sail. Some more info -

    https://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01...wind/index.htm

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Reservoir sailing usually means that dagger boards do not have the usual disadvantages compared to more complicated and space robbing centerboards. Especially when there are ramps and docks.
    "Deconstruction is not a method, and cannot be transformed into one" Jacques Derrida (1930–2004)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    You should look at the plans of Jim Michalak at Duckworks - He has a pile that would do just fine.

    The Family skiff would be fine. She has seven foot long bench seating inside, very comfy for a family, and very able. Nine sheets ply, tape seam construction.



    https://duckworks.com/family-skiff-plans/

    The good old Lady Bug would do the job wonderfully. Taped seam construction, I think eight sheets of plywood. -


    https://duckworks.com/ladybug-plans/

    The Mayfly 16 might well be my pick, this boat is said to be very comfortable and able, not to mention easy to build. Simple nail and glue construction, eight sheets of plywood needed. -



    https://duckworks.com/mayfly-16-plans/


    The Laguna would be a blast! Might be bigger than you wish though, but shes only about 450 pounds and would tow effortlessly on a trailer.
    Also simple nail and glue construction, lots of room. Can use two sets of oars in this one.





    https://duckworks.com/laguna-plans/


    Anyway, take a look at Jims plans, he has far to many to mention, in all shapes and sizes! His plans are inexpensive too.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Quote Originally Posted by Landrith View Post
    Reservoir sailing usually means that dagger boards do not have the usual disadvantages compared to more complicated and space robbing centerboards.

    My experience out here in California has been nearly the opposite. The bottom of our mountain reservoirs is sharp, high-relief granite. Barely-submerged peaks soaring up from abyssal plains. I'd much rather hit a surprise like that with a centerboard. By contrast my local bays and estuaries have soft, sloping sand or mud bottoms.

    crowbark, I had a similiar design brief and after years of agonizing settled on Vivier's Seil. I can't speak to its qualities yet - I will need to build the hull first. If you want to see the reasoning and some responses it's here.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-in-California

    Might be a bit long for you, though.


    Whatever you decide, have fun with it. I'm having a great time building my boat at a glacial pace and taking every possible detour into other projects with the skills I'm learning along the way.

    -James

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    I see it was mentioned above, and since I have one, Welsford's Walkabout looks like it meets all your requirements except the last. It leans more to rowing, is double ended at the waterline with a narrow transom, capable of carrying the crew on a day trip but designed primarily for solo. The rig is lug yawl, but an alternate single lug is possible. JW has called it one of his most seaworthy designs (due to decking and flotation compartments). The big miss is ease of building. AFAIK only plans are available, and there's lots of bits to make so not quick.

    The famous Osbert on a mountain lake (Loch Ness) photo:

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Quote Originally Posted by Etdbob View Post
    You should look at the plans of Jim Michalak at Duckworks - He has a pile that would do just fine.

    The Family skiff would be fine. She has seven foot long bench seating inside, very comfy for a family, and very able. Nine sheets ply, tape seam construction.



    https://duckworks.com/family-skiff-plans/

    The good old Lady Bug would do the job wonderfully. Taped seam construction, I think eight sheets of plywood. -


    https://duckworks.com/ladybug-plans/

    The Mayfly 16 might well be my pick, this boat is said to be very comfortable and able, not to mention easy to build. Simple nail and glue construction, eight sheets of plywood needed. -



    https://duckworks.com/mayfly-16-plans/


    The Laguna would be a blast! Might be bigger than you wish though, but shes only about 450 pounds and would tow effortlessly on a trailer.
    Also simple nail and glue construction, lots of room. Can use two sets of oars in this one.





    https://duckworks.com/laguna-plans/


    Anyway, take a look at Jims plans, he has far to many to mention, in all shapes and sizes! His plans are inexpensive too.
    I like Jim Michalak's designs a lot--cheap and fast to build. And the Family Skiff may be one of the most comfortable boats to sit in I've sailed in. I do think you would end up with a boat that doesn't particularly shine at rowing with these boats, though.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Having tried a sailing canoe on mountain lakes, I might suggest you don't. I found the wind direction very switchy, canoes don't tack quickly, and can be very tiddily in the stability department. Oh, and yes, the water can be very cold.

    Ken

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    What about CLC's Southwester Dory? It can be built as either a kit or from plans. I think it would fall roughly into the category of Vivier's Seil (a little longer, but lighter and with finer ends). Speaking of Seil, the production version in France seems to be very successful as a "family sail-and-oar boat", and there aren't too many of those around. The CLC Dory has a low center of sail area and a boxed-in interior, which I think would be a consideration when looking at the capsize scenarios. It only has one rowing station, whereas Seil has two, if that is an issue. Seil has just one sail (boomless standing lug) and a very simple rig. Of the Southwesters I've been able to find pictures of, I believe a little over half were built without the motorwell.

    CLC sells the construction manual separately and I bought it last year. It's for both plan and kit builders and allows you to go over every step involved in building the boat. I found it to be worth the money just for the educational value.

    These are the two boats that jump out at me for a "one-person to small-family-with-camping-gear" sailing and rowing boat.

    If you just want to get on the water SOON: Michalak's Mayfly 16 will do what you need, but as noted above, will be harder to row. It's definitely a stage set-builder's boat!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    Interestingly I just got done reading this infotizement article,

    https://www.duckworksmagazine.com/11/designs/drifter/

    Quote Originally Posted by from the article
    The Drifter trimarans are sort of a modern version of the outrigger canoe, being designed to be paddled or sailed.
    Quote Originally Posted by from the Drifter 16 plans
    The Drifter 16 is a larger version of the Drifter 14, and is designed for one or two people. It can be paddled or sailed with a simple rig using a windsurfing mast. It can be cartopped, or carried on small trailer. It is easy to sail, tacks well, and is very stable. Because you steer the boat with your feet, your hands are always free. It's a great boat for exploring protected rivers and bays, or for camp cruising for one person, with plenty of storage for gear. It is easy to build out of plywood, and weighs about 130 lbs.
    Best of all, the plans are free, so you can look at them, see if you like them, then make your choice.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    100

    Default Re: Yet more "Which boat?" - rowing/sailing canyon reservoirs

    A gathering of (mostly), Seils in France:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPo37gQFnI&t=8s

    Almost any video about the "sail and oar" movement in France will show some of these. Most of them are the fiberglass production version, which I understand is heavier. Both the Seil and the CLC Southwester, as different as they are, strike me as wholesome family boats for those whose interests are more into cruising and camping.

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