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Thread: Help wanted, a common theme.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Just guessing the restaurant you just went to wasn’t staffed by high school kids.
    Our waiter (order taker) appeared to be in his mid 20’s. Took our order and we didn’t see him again until he brought the check. It’s more of an upscale place and tends to have a waitstaff in their 20’s and 30’s.

    Last week we went out with 2 other couples to another local eatery/bar. It was clearly understaffed as well, and our waitress apologized upfront. She really did a great job considering and we all tipped her accordingly. Her positive attitude and explanation made all the difference.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    One time I went in to Magnolia Cafe on South Congress early one Sunday morning.

    Some surly SOB FINALLY took my order.

    I asked him if there was a Sunday paper in the house, and he sneered that there was a paper box down the street.

    I asked him if he could break a fiver down for some quarters, so I could walk down the hill and get a paper, and he said 'NO! I don't have any quarters!'

    I wasn't dressed like the more polished patrons.

    I left that place, walked down the hill, bought a paper, and returned for my breakfast.

    I waited.

    And waited.

    He finally informed me that when I left, he thought I'd skipped and so he'd cancelled my order.

    I reordered.

    Did the Sunday paper thing, with crossword, funnies, sudoku and all, and made the worthless bursted trot back and forth with 10 cups of coffee.

    When it came time for to settle up, I paid with a 100-dollar bill, and when he brought my change, I looked that preening SOB in the eye and handed him a coin and said 'Now you have a quarter.'

    If one resents serving, one should not serve.
    Rattling the teacups.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Recognizing that you are a good egg, what percentage of the population do you think is similar?

    The PS says it all. Knowing there is a liveable wage at the end of a long day makes work less stressful and more pleasant. Of course, someone who’s just a waiter shouldn’t want to fly to Europe or own a nice car or a home.

    They’re just waiters. They should get real jobs, if they want a living wage.

    And, that is how subtle this **** is.

    Us/them goes deeper and is more ingrained than want to imagine. We like to think we’re not programmed.
    Thank you very kindly, Mister Rob.
    Rattling the teacups.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    If only there were hardworking folks from some other part of the world who wanted to come to America to make a better life for themselves and their families...

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Thank you very kindly, Mister Rob.
    Werd.

    I think we all forget that when most of us say stuff, we mean “them”, as in “not members of this board, per se, but the general public.

    I mean, we all pretty much know we are all pretty much good eggs, I think it’s safe to say.

    But, we also ALL see how a lot of people act. I think we are all generally addressing the same groups whenever we attempt to discuss things here, but these are personal discussions, so it’s hard to NOT feel lumped in.

    I certainly don’t think anyone here would be an asshat to a hard working person, but I certainly do not think this place represents the average poplulace, neither.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    If only there were hardworking folks from some other part of the world who wanted to come to America to make a better life for themselves and their families...
    My grandparents, and my wife’s greats, for example?

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Exactly. And all the grandparents of the people fighting immigration tooth and nail in our government.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    If only there were hardworking folks from some other part of the world who wanted to come to America to make a better life for themselves and their families...
    I am certain that we can find a large number of immigrants who are willing to work under conditions less appalling than in their home country for better wages than in their home country. And they will be happy to do so.

    That does not solve the income problem of individuals in the US. It seems counterproductive.
    Life is complex.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    It's just going to take time. While I'd like to think wages for waiters, bartenders, boatyard workers, etc. will get better, I don't see it. There are too many people who don't want them better.

    I've worked in boatyards, waited table & bartended. All are hard work & deserve decent pay. I will say that a surly waiter will not get a good tip from me. A decent waiter who has been jammed up by the kitchen or too many tables - or something out of his/her control will get a good tip - if they deal with the adversity particularly well - an even better one. I have 2 times in my life where I left less than 20% - both servers were complete jerks.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Was just reading a WSJ article regarding this issue. Reasons for people remaining unemployed with so many businesses hiring?

    1. Fear of Covid.
    2. Lack of childcare.
    3. Receiving sufficient $$ from unemployment benefits.

    On #1 unless someone has a serious underlying condition I’d ask if they’ve been vaccinated. If not then get the shot and go to work.
    #2 is the tough one and has been for some time, but what were they doing before Covid? Possibly childcare is now more expensive and difficult to find.
    #3 will be self correcting come September.

    Of course an influx of young people from south of the border may also solve the issue. They appear eager to work.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Up next it’ll be the great “skills” mismatch talking point.

    discussions of labor & jobs in the us are just exercises in cliche.

    the WSJ also has rafts of articles talking about everyone fleeing for low tax states. Instead of where they actually fled too - the suburbs.

    But “everybody knows” it’s the fault of extended ui, so that’s gonna die, because of anecdata.
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 05-06-2021 at 04:39 PM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Pay.

    That remains a huge part.

    We insist on people working jobs for no money and want the best quality.

    Don’t work that way.
    yup. I counted 10 help wants signs on my trip to the store today. None of them are on public transport routes, or on decent bike routes, or near any kind of housing (or even dense suburbs with lots of high schoolers), so the worker will need a car to get to them. And yet these stores expect to find someone with reliable wheels paying near minimum wage. Didn’t happen before covid, not gonna happen now.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Meh.

    It’s so much farting in the wind.

    I forget myself.

  14. #49
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    Default Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Here in SW Nova, the shortage is in boatyard labour. In a recent conversation with a boat shop owner, he estimated that there are over a hundred vacancies in the local boat shops. Most are low-level labour jobs ('glassers, carpenters, general labourers, etc.), but also mechanics, electricians, machinists. Yes, this is working with The Other Stuff. Most youngsters with skills want to go to the big city with all the entertainments, bars, etc., and not be trapped in a region of scenic fishing villages, mostly deserted white sand beaches, good hunting and fishing within a half-hour drive, moderate housing prices, and lots of work availability. The guy I was speaking with is trying to arrange for a half-dozen Mexican & Central American guest workers to come to his shop because he can't find anybody locally. Makes me crazy just thinking about it.

    Friend of mine here in Seattle runs a heating company. He's not accepting new customers because he can't find techs to hire.

    And it's not because they're low-paying jobs, either -- he tells me it's because people don't want to be working with their hands. That's apparently somehow declassé.
    Last edited by Nicholas Carey; 05-06-2021 at 04:55 PM.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Sometimes, youngsters make it pretty hard not to become cynical. I need a marine draftsman. Ain't none to be had, it seems, with knowledge of small craft, GRP construction, and AutoCad skills who wants to live in a small fishing community. Arrive on my doorstep with any two of those skills and the desire to live around here and I can teach you the third skill. So one of my boatbuilder clients has a step-son who needs a job. He has some recently-arrived long-tern health issues that preclude him working in step-dad's shop, so step-dad asked if he's be a good candidate for me. I spoke at length with the lad but didn't make much progress. The condensed version of the conversation went something like this:

    (Me) I know that you know a bit about boats and building them in 'glass, but do you know anything about drafting?

    (Him) No, but I am willing to learn.

    That's encouraging. I'll give you some reading material and a textbook on technical drawing that you can look through to see what it is you are thinking of getting into.

    Can't I look it up on-line?

    I can direct you to information faster, without going down blind alleys. Once you decide that this is really something that you want to do, I would suggest that you go to the Community College to take their one-year course in mechanical drafting. That will teach you the basics of drafting in AutoCad, and I can then finish off your education by teaching you marine drafting while you work for me.

    Can't I do the course on-line?

    Not at the Community College. There might be courses 'out there', though. Research them and let me know what you find. Do you have a laptop or desktop computer?

    No. Can't I do it on my 'phone?

    No.

    Maybe I can get one from Mom. How long will the course take?

    You will have to find a course on-line that is suitable, and then look at how long it will take to do it. I expect that if you are good, learn fast, and work hard it will probably take at least six to nine months to complete the course.

    Oh, I don't want to work that long before I start making money. Will you pay me while I take the course?

    No. You go out and get the basic skills, and I will teach you how to use them in the boatbuilding industry. Because you need to be re-trained due to medical issues, there is probably government money available to you to pay for the course and pay you unemployment wages.

    So if I take this course, how much will you pay me when I work for you?

    I will start you at minimum wage ($15/hr) for the first month or two until you know enough to actually be useful to me, then I'll probably bump you up to $20/hr/

    But step-dad said that you said that a marine draftsman can make up to $35/hr or more.

    That is for an experienced marine drafter - you are at the bottom of that heap, not the top.

    Well, that sucks.


    What are ya s'posed to do? <rolleyes>
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Friend of mine here in Seattle runs a heating company. He's not accepting new customers because he can't find techs to hire.

    And it's not because they're low-paying jobs, either -- he tells me it's because people don't want to be working with their hands. That's apparently somehow declassé.
    It's the surest way to find an early grave and make some other mother****** rich in the process.

    The ONLY WAY that we can repair this fustercluck is to cap the owner's compensation at some multiple of the lowest paid employee.

    CEO pay has increased 1,008% between 1978 and 2018, while typical worker pay has edged up 12%.
    Take 'em out in the street, strip 'em of everything they've stolen, and send 'em off to Guantanamo for the existential threats to the country they are.

    Nobody would miss 'em.

    Most of them don't even do anything for the money, and the rest of them run a company into the ground and collect their hundred-million-dollar Golden Parachute on the way out the door.

    Scroom.

    Scroom hard.

    Turn about is fair play, after all.
    Rattling the teacups.

  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    It's the surest way to find an early grave and make some other mother****** rich in the process.
    We'll, Brian's not exactly getting rich. It's a small company. He started working there when he was 18 and inherited it when the founder/owner retired. He's out in the field a lot and takes the on-call shifts like every other tech on his crew.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    So broken body and early grave and nobody got rich. That’s better

    Funny, I can’t imagine why kids don’t care about nebulous promises of future wages.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    One part of the issue we see here, at least in the category of lower range jobs (farming, processing, fast food etc...) is they were mostly done by teenagers up until probably 40 years ago. Myself included. If we wanted something, a car, a bike, a post secondary education or such, we had to pay some or all of it ourselves. Both on principal and because our parents couldn't afford it. As the middle class grew many of the kids don't have to work to get what they want, their parents pay for it. Both my kids had jobs including picking and packing fruit, we would generally pay 50% of things like cars, insurance, education. Again it's not the complete issue, but I think it is part of the issue.

    And in support of Nicolas Carey's points about kids not wanting to work with their hands, spot on. The government is trying to fix that here with programs and advertising, but for the last 50 years the school system and society pushed in the wrong direction making the kids believe that University was better than Trade School. I know Plumbers and Electricians that make more money than the average Lawyer or Teacher. Heck, I know Heavy Equipment Operators that make more than all of them if their willing to work 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off flying to their jobs in the Oilsands in ALberta.
    Stay calm, be brave....wait for the signs. Possibly precariously prevaricating.
    .

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Heavy Equipment Operators
    I know an operator here. Road paving. He makes $180 an hour. Twice that at night or on Saturday.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  21. #56
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    Default Help wanted, a common theme.

    As an apprentice outside lineman here in the Pacific Northwest, you start at 60% of a journeyman's wage, making $33/hour with 100% employer-paid health insurance.

    https://nwlinejatc.com/outside-lineman-apprenticeship/

    It's about a 3 year apprenticeship and your wages go up every 1,000 hours (6 months). And. . . Because there's a lot of book learnin', your getting paid to earn college credits.

    As a journeyman, the current wage is $54/hour ($108k/year), but that doesn't include any overtime and pay for the nutty times when the big windstorm/ice storm/etc takes down the lines. Of which there is a not insignificant amount.

    And they have a hard time finding apprentices.

    Those wages put you comfortably in the top 30% of wage earners in the USA.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ome-in-the-us/

    And unlike most desk jobs, it's a job that can't be outsourced to China or to a computer. Which, in these latter days, is a real consideration.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    It's the surest way to find an early grave and make some other mother****** rich in the process.

    The ONLY WAY that we can repair this fustercluck is to cap the owner's compensation at some multiple of the lowest paid employee.



    Take 'em out in the street, strip 'em of everything they've stolen, and send 'em off to Guantanamo for the existential threats to the country they are.

    Nobody would miss 'em.

    Most of them don't even do anything for the money, and the rest of them run a company into the ground and collect their hundred-million-dollar Golden Parachute on the way out the door.

    Scroom.

    Scroom hard.

    Turn about is fair play, after all.
    Businesses for Social Responsibility. https://www.bsr.org/en/

    One tenet is that no one in the company makes more the 7 times the lowest paid.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Virtually every business here has help wanted signs up. Of course that is perfectly normal this time of year. I suspect it will be bad this summer since everyone is expecting a record breaking tourist season. Heck, even I am going to Acadia National Park today, but then I go to the park pretty much every day.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    As a journeyman (linesman), the current wage is $54/hour ($108k/year), but that doesn't include any overtime and pay for the nutty times when the big windstorm/ice storm/etc takes down the lines. Of which there is a not insignificant amount.

    And they have a hard time finding apprentices.
    Not to dispute, but to merely add to the commentary, as a former linesman (but not for power systems) I worked a lot with power crews, both construction and maintenance. For a while I considered taking the training necessary to be a power system linesman. The drawback to the job, besides the apparent dangers of working around high-energy electrical power, is that it is a very physically demanding job that is rife with serious injury. Blown-out knees, wrenched shoulders, and crushed vertebrae are unfortunately rather common. It is a young man's job due to the physical demands - you rarely see a linesman over 45. Make the money while you can, and invest for an early retirement.
    Last edited by mmd; 05-07-2021 at 08:43 AM.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Businesses for Social Responsibility. https://www.bsr.org/en/

    One tenet is that no one in the company makes more the 7 times the lowest paid.
    THAT is exactly what is needed. A couple of other suggestions:

    Pass legislation requiring any corporate charter operating in the U.S. to do the following:

    1. 30% worker representation on all corporate boards.

    2. 40% of all profits are distributed to all employees every year, in addition to salary/wages, and 60% distributed to investors.

    Those three things would do a lot of good, I think.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.





    Everything Is Free




    Everything is free now
    That's what they say
    Everything I ever done
    Gotta give it away
    Someone hit the big score
    They figured it out
    That we're gonna do it anyway
    Even if doesn't pay
    I can get a tip jar
    Gas up the car
    And try to make a little change
    Down at the bar
    Or I can get a straight job
    I've done it before
    Never minded working hard
    It's who I'm working for
    Everything is free now
    That's what they say
    Everything I ever done
    Gotta give it away
    Someone hit the big score
    They figured it out
    That we're gonna do it anyway
    Even if doesn't pay
    Every day I wake up
    Hummin' a song
    But I don't need to run around
    I just stay home
    And sing a little love song
    My love, to myself
    If there's something that you want to hear
    You can sing it yourself
    'Cause everything is free now
    That what I say
    No one's got to listen to
    The words in my head
    Someone hit the big score
    And I figured it out
    And we're gonna do it anyway
    Even if doesn't pay
    Rattling the teacups.

  27. #62
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    THAT is exactly what is needed. A couple of other suggestions:

    Pass legislation requiring any corporate charter operating in the U.S. to do the following:

    1. 30% worker representation on all corporate boards.

    2. 40% of all profits are distributed to all employees every year, in addition to salary/wages, and 60% distributed to investors.

    Those three things would do a lot of good, I think.

    Tom


    Nothing is put back into the business to help it grow and remain competitive?

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    One tenet is that no one in the company makes more the 7 times the lowest paid.
    There are a number of business owners who do that. For them the real money is in the appreciation of their ownership.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    THAT is exactly what is needed. A couple of other suggestions:

    Pass legislation requiring any corporate charter operating in the U.S. to do the following:

    1. 30% worker representation on all corporate boards.

    2. 40% of all profits are distributed to all employees every year, in addition to salary/wages, and 60% distributed to investors.

    Those three things would do a lot of good, I think.
    As in my previous comment, businesses know how to handle suggestion like these.

    But the big problem is that these solutions deal with individual companies and "income". There are going to be vast inequalities.

    As some say: There are simple solutions to complex problems. They just don't work.
    Life is complex.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Nothing is put back into the business to help it grow and remain competitive?

    Kevin

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    That would be deducted before calculating profit, no?

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Sometimes, youngsters make it pretty hard not to become cynical. I need a marine draftsman. Ain't none to be had, it seems, with knowledge of small craft, GRP construction, and AutoCad skills who wants to live in a small fishing community. Arrive on my doorstep with any two of those skills and the desire to live around here and I can teach you the third skill. So one of my boatbuilder clients has a step-son who needs a job. He has some recently-arrived long-tern health issues that preclude him working in step-dad's shop, so step-dad asked if he's be a good candidate for me. I spoke at length with the lad but didn't make much progress. The condensed version of the conversation went something like this:

    (Me) I know that you know a bit about boats and building them in 'glass, but do you know anything about drafting?

    (Him) No, but I am willing to learn.

    That's encouraging. I'll give you some reading material and a textbook on technical drawing that you can look through to see what it is you are thinking of getting into.

    Can't I look it up on-line?

    I can direct you to information faster, without going down blind alleys. Once you decide that this is really something that you want to do, I would suggest that you go to the Community College to take their one-year course in mechanical drafting. That will teach you the basics of drafting in AutoCad, and I can then finish off your education by teaching you marine drafting while you work for me.

    Can't I do the course on-line?

    Not at the Community College. There might be courses 'out there', though. Research them and let me know what you find. Do you have a laptop or desktop computer?

    No. Can't I do it on my 'phone?

    No.

    Maybe I can get one from Mom. How long will the course take?

    You will have to find a course on-line that is suitable, and then look at how long it will take to do it. I expect that if you are good, learn fast, and work hard it will probably take at least six to nine months to complete the course.

    Oh, I don't want to work that long before I start making money. Will you pay me while I take the course?

    No. You go out and get the basic skills, and I will teach you how to use them in the boatbuilding industry. Because you need to be re-trained due to medical issues, there is probably government money available to you to pay for the course and pay you unemployment wages.

    So if I take this course, how much will you pay me when I work for you?

    I will start you at minimum wage ($15/hr) for the first month or two until you know enough to actually be useful to me, then I'll probably bump you up to $20/hr/

    But step-dad said that you said that a marine draftsman can make up to $35/hr or more.

    That is for an experienced marine drafter - you are at the bottom of that heap, not the top.

    Well, that sucks.


    What are ya s'posed to do? <rolleyes>
    Like Alec Baldwin say to Matt Damon in The Departed, “World needs plenty of bartenders”.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Nothing is put back into the business to help it grow and remain competitive?
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    That would be deducted before calculating profit, no?
    Yep.

    Additionally (or even instead), perhaps the board (including the 30% worker representation members) could propose and vote on re-directing some of the investors' and/or workers' share into growth, etc.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    As an apprentice outside lineman here in the Pacific Northwest, you start at 60% of a journeyman's wage, making $33/hour with 100% employer-paid health insurance.

    https://nwlinejatc.com/outside-lineman-apprenticeship/

    It's about a 3 year apprenticeship and your wages go up every 1,000 hours (6 months). And. . . Because there's a lot of book learnin', your getting paid to earn college credits.

    As a journeyman, the current wage is $54/hour ($108k/year), but that doesn't include any overtime and pay for the nutty times when the big windstorm/ice storm/etc takes down the lines. Of which there is a not insignificant amount.

    And they have a hard time finding apprentices.

    Those wages put you comfortably in the top 30% of wage earners in the USA.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ome-in-the-us/

    And unlike most desk jobs, it's a job that can't be outsourced to China or to a computer. Which, in these latter days, is a real consideration.
    People want inside work with no heavy lifting. Linemen work at one of the most dangerous jobs, often in horrible weather. That's why it pays well.

    Ooops, mmd beat me to it.

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    30,968

    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    "As it happens, I’ve been poring over a report titled “U.S. Small Businesses Struggle to Find Qualified Employees.” The report summarized a survey conducted by Gallup and Wells Fargo, which found a majority of businesses saying that it was hard to hire workers.
    Oh, did I mention the date on the report? Feb. 15, 2013 — a time when there were
    three unemployed workers for every job opening. There was, in fact, no shortage of qualified labor, and the unemployment rate kept falling for another seven years.
    So what was that about? Employers in a depressed economy get used to being able to fill vacancies easily. When the economy improves hiring gets a bit harder; sometimes you have to attract workers by offering higher wages. And employers experience that as a labor shortage.
    But that’s how the economy is supposed to work! Employers competing for workers by raising wages isn’t a problem, it’s what we want to see."
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/o...gtype=Homepage

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    6,779

    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    I did back in high school. It’s part of the reason I went to college.
    Possibly the entire concept of a waiter will go the way of elevator operators and gas station attendants (NJ and OR excepted?). A hostess seats you, food/drink runner brings your order and a bus person cleans the table afterwards.
    We dont tip here, wait staff are properly paid. But a lot of smaller, quickfire eateries are "order at the counter" and you're given a little buzzer thing, when that goes off you go up to the servery and pick up your meal, take it back to your table. There is someone bussing tables and keeping condiments trays filled, but it makes for a considerable reduction in staffing costs.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    45,791

    Default Re: Help wanted, a common theme.

    Yep. And don't forget the other factor - the price that consumers are willing to pay for the product or service.

    There's a reason that the developed world buys so much that's manufactured in low-wage and low environmental-regulation countries. The reason is that there's a cap on what consumers will pay for a shirt, or a laptop, or a piece of plastic disposable muck - and the cap is too low to permit that item being manufactured here ... at least with the profit margin the entrepreneur wishes.

    There's also a cap on what we're willing to pay here in North America for child care, or for care of our elderly in seniors' homes. Or often, for being served in a restaurant. And as these aren't jobs where the labor can be exported to low-wage foreigners, we've typically resorted to importing foreigners here instead, or relying on parts of the domestic labor force which can be kept working for such wages.

    And still pay them less than the actual market value of the job, because we wouldn't pay a fair price for the good/service.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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