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Thread: Simple Proa

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Sure a flat bottom will do, my first people carrier proa was just such a 14 ft'er(with a real flattie shape), although the ama was a V hull with slightly more than a 90deg mid section( something much like the Toroa ama). As you say Rael, a Batteau-like shape hull can be loaded up and when slow progress under human power for short distance is the object, the 'dragginess' not a biggie, but when looking for the best out of an easily driven craft ( which proas have to offer above most other things) a bit more work can pay off in getting a cleaner shape.
    Building up off a bottom plank/template in the age-old system sure is a satisfying way of doing things.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    Sure a flat bottom will do, my first people carrier proa was just such a 14 ft'er(with a real flattie shape), although the ama was a V hull with slightly more than a 90deg mid section( something much like the Toroa ama). As you say Rael, a Batteau-like shape hull can be loaded up and when slow progress under human power for short distance is the object, the 'dragginess' not a biggie, but when looking for the best out of an easily driven craft ( which proas have to offer above most other things) a bit more work can pay off in getting a cleaner shape.
    Building up off a bottom plank/template in the age-old system sure is a satisfying way of doing things.
    You make good points, no doubt. Yet I'm in a constant search for volume still keeping it simple, think dories for example... Building with a strongback and forms is truly no big deal I agree, better cleaner shape too, though a V hull is my favourite offering more advantages that fit my needs, but it must be a big boat. The Catamaran world is easy, 2 hulls to carry the load, a 21 foot cat can take the load a 30 foot Proa... These are my problems, I build small boats, I load them heavy and I have only 1 hull... Yes things could get slightly rounded up by building a multi chine, I agree. I'm not arguing, above all I'm a Phil Bolger fan too I suppose.....................

    Keep Shunting, Lugalong
    Balkan Shipyards

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    OK I'll bite - What the heck is an AD scull?

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Named after the prolific Mr Atsushi Doi, who is apparently the inventor.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hcmzrrfp6E

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Thanks Dusty.
    Looks like it works very well indeed.
    I guess I know what it looks like now, but is there any kind of construction plan for one out there?
    I couldn't find anything.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    I see Mr. Doi has a very tiny proa or outrigger canoe, and uses this scull to steer very effectively!

    I wouldn't mind learning how to make something like that.
    Gettin' all kinds of ideas for my outrigger...


  7. #77
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Here is the AD-Scull in action, He sails, steers and sculls all at once
    This video truly shows how great this can be in tight spots....
    https://youtu.be/SufVT7ZDTQA

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    No need to have your rig fall over if you go aback...and you will.
    http://outriggersailingcanoes.blogsp...ast-props.html

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Dierking View Post
    No need to have your rig fall over if you go aback...and you will.
    http://outriggersailingcanoes.blogsp...ast-props.html
    Oh, Iíve been told by everyone else, too.

    To begin with, Iíd like to keep things as simple as possible. For a few reasons, but mostly so I can add what I need where I need it. I donít know how these things work, at all.
    Especially since this is all pretty much made up, and the model is more of a spirit guide than a dimensionally accurate miniature. The hulls and hull spacing are real measurements, but the platform and etc are all subject to change, so I donít really need them for the model.

    I will like as not add all such accoutrements, should I ever realize this dream. It will be simpler to layout the routing of the tackline and sheet and etc, and add the prop once the full-sized boat is, I think.

    I may even add some of those bungee powered back stays that one guy recommends in his book.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    There are various ways of keeping the mast up when being taken aback, the simplest of all being to step the mast in or near the middle of the connecting beam, with the shroud to the ama and the luff of the sail put in tension down to the lee gunnel of the vaka or katea. Many traditional shunter craft with log amas (which are short on reserve buoyancy), have a strut that makes an A support structure at the lower end of the rig. Rael has taken this a step further by carrying the A structure to the masthead, and Gary recomends an elaborate system of bungee power to create something of a dynamic support strut. Without going to either of these lengths, I have used tension in the yard and the backstay to load the mast into compression and keep it up when taken aback. At the same time, however, the ama has been able to sink and even rolled right under the vaka, to effect righting.... for this it helped to have an alloy tube mast and yard ( that take in water and sink easily).
    Stepping the mast in the vaka is of course an option and as it was done in the Sri Lanka Oruwa is probably the most simple of all ( being nothing more than a bamboo pole stepped through a thwart and lodged on the bottom of the dugout lee hull.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 05-02-2021 at 02:48 PM.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    The boat looks really cool, Rob.

    Just curious, when you were researching and designing it, did you look at the Crab-Claw type sails?

    There is something really neat about the way those sails look!

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    The boat looks really cool, Rob.

    Just curious, when you were researching and designing it, did you look at the Crab-Claw type sails?

    There is something really neat about the way those sails look!
    Oh, if I were to build one, Iíd likely keep the same sail dimensions and all, but I WOULD cut a large, swoopy curve out of the leach, because it would look cool.
    Maybe I could even laminate up some curved spars...

    Truth be told, Iím a lateen fiend, as well. I just like them. Why? I donít know. Why donít I like peaches?

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    9D6BE126-D122-4EB8-A198-9E0092EAE70A.jpg
    So much for if.

    There will be no play-by-play. There will be a litmus test, though. Sooner than later, I hope.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Oh yeah. Here we go.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    You're going to need to find some bigger action figures for this baby!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Maybe. The 11,978,416 scarfs to be made in 16mm and 19x25mm sticks has made me rethink the whole thing. There is still time to glue this crap into a big 3D Doodle.

    Bonus is, there may be enough stringer wood for BOTH canoes!

    After I finish doing all the stuff the other wood is for. As one part of the house is propped up, another falls off. Literally. One of our exterior doors came apart in my hands the other day.

    Luckily, the entire house is completely level, square, and in plane.

    And, why do we need MORE shelves? Wouldnít it be easier to have less stuff? Thatís why Iím not in charge.

    Also, the kids are helping, again! I love it when they help. They sit around until itís time to paint, then push me aside.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    01191B64-D445-4A22-99E4-4F6540630756.jpg
    Trying to add a bit of grace to the ama bows. This is all a bunch of made up best wishes.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Asymmetric.hull?


    Watching this with interest.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Asymmetrical? Dammit! I KNEW metric would mess me up!

    Which. I can not find a metric tape measure for sale, here. My old one is a bit worse for wear, so I thought to replace it.

    Nope. Not one place in town stocks a metric tape.

    So, this was all measured with an aluminum meter stick.

    Yeah. It’s crazy backward, here. Someone actually asked me WHY I wanted a metric tape. “To measure things...”

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    What length do you want?

    I have a few freebie 5m metric/imperial tapes - could post you one.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Oh, cheers, and many thanks, but Iíll find one eventually. And, itís all measured, now. The rest is just jiggle sticks and patterns, from here.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    1BC51146-73B5-408F-B966-8F2FB05FB1CB.jpg
    More of the same stupidity.

    ETA, this is the leeward side, so it’s supposed to be relatively straight and flat.
    Last edited by amish rob; 05-18-2021 at 09:19 PM.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    1BC51146-73B5-408F-B966-8F2FB05FB1CB.jpg
    More of the same stupidity.

    ETA, this is the leeward side, so itís supposed to be relatively straight and flat.
    Vertical stringers, I suppose you been cutting between the knots..... hey? good idea.
    That Ply looks clean too.... Looking Good!!!!
    The Force is strong, Keep Shunting Rob, and keep posting.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Oh, I’m going to make a whole damned grid of this wood inside. The glued and screwed battens make the whole assembly mad stiff and tough, and weighs MUCH less than sheathing inside.

    Also, I can add stringers on top of these, well glued and screwed as well, to support any thwarts or sub deck or whatever.

    A true “free style” mongrel build, with a few styles mixed up, and parts from the junk pile I picked up. It’s been fun. I keep telling myself.

    Those batten frames are all ripped from junk or scrap. They’re 12mm square. It’s nice stuff. The “inwales” have four scarfs each, to eliminate knots. I had to cut so many scarfs, I actually made a jig! Haha.

    I hope to get the other panel ready to stitch up tomorrow, and the vaka hull stitched, too.

    Hope!? Haha. I need it!

    The ply LOOKS nice, but it’s a little iffy, truth be told. I paid my money, so I’ll takes my chances. Luckily, I am well versed in building “wooden” “boats”.
    Last edited by amish rob; 05-19-2021 at 12:04 AM.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Watching with interest. Compounded.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Iíll have to get a few closeups of this batten/frame wood. Some of it is very nice. Of course, itís taken a lot of ďworkĒ to get it to the state itís in, but it was worth the effort, to me.

    Of course, Iíd much rather be well on to the stitching and glopping phase, by now, but as this is all coming from nowhere, it takes a bit of forth-and-back thinking to make sure itís all well sorted.

    The cool part is I made a nice wig for Quad to wear from shavings while he weeded the strawberry patch yesterday. The wee little strips left over from rounding all those frames made a fine wig.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Would have looked like something out of an Anime ...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Kaiju film.

    Oh, no, Quadzilla is squashing our strawberries!

    Wait! Heís NOT squashing them. Heís WEEDING them! Quadzilla is a good guy!

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    1BC51146-73B5-408F-B966-8F2FB05FB1CB.jpg
    More of the same stupidity.

    ETA, this is the leeward side, so it’s supposed to be relatively straight and flat.
    Looks like the bracing for a guitar soundboard.....

    Looking forward to the next episode.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Looks like the bracing for a guitar soundboard.....

    Looking forward to the next episode.
    Aha. So this is the secret plan.

    788ed446b0aa688d62379ab240b41045.jpgc
    -Dave

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Looks like the bracing for a guitar soundboard.....

    Looking forward to the next episode.
    Oh, yar! When I was trimming the cleat ends with the chisel, I was evoking a particular luthier Iíve watched dozens of times. And, yes, I hope the cleats work in much the same way as guitar bracing.

    The spirit of a stringed instrument is probably a good thing to aim for; lightness and strength with a hint of toughness, but a gossamer toughness created by so many interwoven frailties.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Aha. So this is the secret plan.

    788ed446b0aa688d62379ab240b41045.jpgc
    How on earth do you shunt a guitar?

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    How on earth do you shunt a guitar?
    Put the outboard in the well, I suppose.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    That's quite some bowsprit!

    Dwedais "Gwirion", nid "Twp"

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Simple Proa

    Well.

    I got it all together, mostly, and discovered some, erm, discrepancies. I am going to try and trim the windward panel in place, because, well...

    I am also getting out some stems to glue and screw in, and maybe tie into a keelson type deal.

    Anyway. Onward, I suppose.

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