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Thread: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

  1. #1
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    Default Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    Those of you who use a mast traveler/hook combination for the halyard of your lugsails:

    How much bigger than mast diameter should the ring be? How close a fit is desirable for best performance?

    If my mast is 3" at the partner, how big a ring do I need for my traveler?

    Thanks!

    Tom
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    I made my own and I think after wrapping it with cord the inside diameter is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch larger than the mast diameter. When in doubt, I would go bigger because it is mainly to help tame the yard as it is going up and down and when reefed. I made it out of mild steel rod from the hardware store and then had it professionally welded together and painted. $15 total well spent.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    Any pictures of your construction process?

    I assume you bent a mild steel rod into a circle using a vise? Did you bend a separate double hook for halyard/yard attachments from the same rod? And then had it welded together?

    Thanks! I appreciate your input.

    Tom
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    The voice in my head tells me the ring wants to be 25% larger than the widest part of the mast. Undoubtedly something I read here on the WBF though I do not remember the source. James McMullen talked about them a bit so he's a likely suspect.

    Pretty straight forward if you have access to a welder.
    Last edited by stromborg; 04-23-2021 at 09:13 AM.
    Steve

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    I was too lazy to do any research--I bet even a simple search of the WBF will find lots of threads. Then again, new threads might bump a worthy issue back to attention, and help new members learn something they might not think to search for. I'll post links to other threads if/when I find them.

    Tom
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    What Steve said. Waxwing’s is mild steel, 2 piece as you described in post #3. I tried leathering the ring to protect the mast from abrasion, but found it a bit sticky against the Deks finish; paracord using a ringbolt hitch has been sufficiency slippery, visually OK, and cheap and easily replaced if the wrapping gets frayed or worn (I think I’ve done it once in 6 seasons).
    993D2051-0903-41B9-B5A6-E1A347B321A1.jpg
    The ringbolt hitch is just repetitive half hitches, with throws alternating left and right.
    Last edited by John hartmann; 04-23-2021 at 11:57 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    I like that! Thanks, John. I intend to use some kind of line wrapping rather than leather, and that looks good, and simple.

    Tom
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    I have always used parrel beads, with a extra bead as a toggle to disconnect the yard...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    I do like the nearly instant connection/disconnection with the traveler/hook combo--that'd be my main reason for changing methods.

    Last year I misplaced some rigging bits and ended up just tying the yard to the halyard with a constrictor hitch, and didn't bother rigging a parrel unless I was reefed--then I just tied one with the tail of the halyard. That works fine, too.

    If I do try a traveler/hook, it'll be a very fine-tuned, small (but definite) benefit modification--not really necessary, but I expect I'll like it. Then again, I may not bother.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    I bought a traveller from Classic Marine. Their part for 70mm mast size is 100mm, seems good for my 3" spar. The leather covering looks good but tends to hang up if not lubed recently, may switch to twine.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    My experience with "rings" is the potential for chafe or a bind. The last thing you want on a small boat rig is one that is stuck up the mast. Usually when you Have to lower the sail, you want it to happen right now before you die.
    I used the halyard as a parrel, made a sketch that's around here somewhere.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    I tried the setup sketched above and found it a bit unwieldy. It's asking one line to do two jobs. On the smaller 75 sq. ft. lugsail on my Whisp, I have a line that looks like the forward or lower part of the halyard in the sketch. Would one call it a span? It keeps the yard against the mast and also allows me to slide it back into the boat when lowered. The halyard is tied on separately.

    On the bigger boat, which has a square mast carrying a 150 sq. ft. sail, I use parrels. That yard never needs to be slipped forward or aft, so they work fine.
    -Dave

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    My traveler on my Fulmar looks like John's, the only difference is I just wrapped some small dyneema around the hoop part instead of the lacing John used. Yes, I just used a piece of rod, a vice, some vice grips and a propane torch and worked the bends in. It's probably about 3/4-1" bigger than the widest part of the mast and works well enough that I never think about it.

    Mike

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    My experience with "rings" is the potential for chafe or a bind. The last thing you want on a small boat rig is one that is stuck up the mast. Usually when you Have to lower the sail, you want it to happen right now before you die.
    I used the halyard as a parrel, made a sketch that's around here somewhere.

    I tried this approach but didn't care for it and switched to a traveler hook. One of the problems I had with the above approach is that when reefed with the yard not pulled all the way up to the block, the yard would get pushed away from the mast on the "good" tack. I find the hook is faster to rig, controls the yard better when raising and lowering, and takes less effort to raise. Binding has never been an issue.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    Mine looks like the others posted. I made a bending jig with a circle of ply wood screwed to a board and a bolt the width of the rod set off to the edge of the circle. I heated the rod with a torch to bend it a few inches at a time between the bolt and the circle. I did the same thing for the hook using two bolts clamped in a vice as a bending tool.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    Dog collars. I used to be ashamed but nothing has worked better. Sigh...
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    Tom,
    Mine looks like the bent-wire versions that others posted (loop for the halyard, hook for the yard). I had a local machine shop bend it and weld it to my sketch - didn't cost much. They were also able to send it out to be powder-coated for a few bucks more. Has solved any potential corrosion problems.

    My mast is about 3 3/8” at the partners plus a little bit more due to the mast leathering, and the ring is about 5” inside diameter if memory serves. Would have to go out and measure it to be sure. I leathered it with rather soft leather that now needs replacing after 5 seasons. I like John Hartmann’s paracord idea if I can’t find more suitable leather.

    Never had a problem with binding or hang-up.

    ETA:
    Just found a picture of the ring on the boat, so you can get an idea of its size relative to the mast:
    Last edited by AJZimm; 04-24-2021 at 10:49 AM.
    Alex

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    156178F9-F3FC-4D6E-AF89-589C0EFB2B86.jpg
    If space is tight, smaller cord can be used, too.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Lugsail Mast Traveler Question

    When I set up a parrel bead system, I used a carbiner or snap hook with it. Hook had an eye. Parrels were on some of that light slippery braid maybe 2-3mm. Bent the halyard to the eye on the snap hook. The beads ran really nicely on the slightly rough surface of the carbon stick. The only disadvantage over a hook traveler was that I had to have my hands on the snap hook to hook up or unhook.

    The arrangement with the halyard thru a block and then to the end of the yard is an old one. I set it up with the yard strop having a snap hook or small carbiner to hook onto the block and another snap hook on the end of the yard to take a loop in the end of the yard.
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