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Thread: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

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    Default Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    And so it starts. A founding member of the Oathkeepers pleads guilty, and accepts the likelihood of a lighter sentence in return for his testimony against bigger fish. Importantly, the allocation of facts he agrees to includes a description of the bear spray he carried with him (and used on officers) as a dangerous weapon which causes bodily injury.

    In related news, there's suddenly also a postponement until Monday of cases involving the Proud Boys too. Which leads some court reporters to speculate that, coming as it does on this Oathkeepers' plea agreement, that the previously separate court actions may potentially be consolidated, or that there may be superseding indictments.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Physically obstructing Congress makes you an enemy, bringing your conduct within the constitutional limitations on the definition of treason.

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
    Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob.

    -- James Madison, Federalist 55

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    HAH! He has pledged bottomless cooperation in exchange for inclusion into the Federal witness protection program.

    Break them. Break them all.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    I agree Gerarddm, but the chief provocateur and initiator of the insurrection is not even in custody. Why not if all his troops are being pursued for serous crimes against the state? Or is it that common reluctance of to hold to account the leaders of countries that provoke, and even take part in crimes on the basis of not wanting to set a precedent?

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I agree Gerarddm, but the chief provocateur and initiator of the insurrection is not even in custody. Why not if all his troops are being pursued for serous crimes against the state? Or is it that common reluctance of to hold to account the leaders of countries that provoke, and even take part in crimes on the basis of not wanting to set a precedent?
    They won't charge him because they know that any half competent lawyer will show the words he used did not specifically say "Invade the Capitol Building, vandalize, steal, attack the police, and kidnap elected representatives".
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    They won't charge him because they know that any half competent lawyer will show the words he used did not specifically say "Invade the Capitol Building, vandalize, steal, attack the police, and kidnap elected representatives".
    That might be true, but it’s not the reason why Trump won’t be charged with anything.

    I doubt any prosecuting authority will go after the other speakers at the event, some of whom were in fact more explicit than Trump.

    I hope hundreds of people are prosecuted, not just a handful.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    The signed plea agreement is now public; signed Wednesday, with the pleading to the court on Friday. Which suggests quality time with the Grand Jury on Thursday.

    I think that there will be quite a few indicted, and higher in the pecking order than a founder of the Oathkeepers.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    I don't know if this will lead to Trump and/or members of congress. It might.

    My thoughts are more along the lines of if/when those facing serious jail time realize Trump did not pardon them but let them out to dry.

    Most, if not all, of these people have families who are apt to realize that, also.

    I have to believe that will not be without impact.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I think that there will be quite a few indicted, and higher in the pecking order than a founder of the Oathkeepers.
    Your lips to God’s ear.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    What I keep seeing is "Oafkeeper" which has a ring to it

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    This has great potential. Just have to stay tuned.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Slid to the wrong thread. I'm glad he'll be cooperating. I imagine it'll be useful for making the case against others.
    Last edited by David G; 04-17-2021 at 05:33 PM.
    David G
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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    If the "others" don't kill him first

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    David G
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    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I agree Gerarddm, but the chief provocateur and initiator of the insurrection is not even in custody. Why not if all his troops are being pursued for serous crimes against the state? Or is it that common reluctance of to hold to account the leaders of countries that provoke, and even take part in crimes on the basis of not wanting to set a precedent?
    Insurrection? What insurrection? Do you mean the summer long violent riots, looting and arson where over 25 Americans were killed and billions of dollars of damage done? If there had been an insurrection on Jan. 6 the bodies of leftist Democrats, would still be hanging from the Cherry trees so thoughtfully provided by the Emperor of Japan.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Strange fruit, eh?

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    That might be true, but it’s not the reason why Trump won’t be charged with anything.

    I doubt any prosecuting authority will go after the other speakers at the event, some of whom were in fact more explicit than Trump.

    I hope hundreds of people are prosecuted, not just a handful.
    Crucify the little fish.
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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Insurrection? What insurrection? Do you mean the summer long violent riots, looting and arson where over 25 Americans were killed and billions of dollars of damage done? If there had been an insurrection on Jan. 6 the bodies of leftist Democrats, would still be hanging from the Cherry trees so thoughtfully provided by the Emperor of Japan.
    U R Silly.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Insurrection? What insurrection? Do you mean the summer long violent riots, looting and arson where over 25 Americans were killed and billions of dollars of damage done? If there had been an insurrection on Jan. 6 the bodies of leftist Democrats, would still be hanging from the Cherry trees so thoughtfully provided by the Emperor of Japan.
    Interesting point of view. You believe people breaking into the capital was a good thing? While I do not condone looting or burning, I find the anger over the disproportionate killing of people of color totally understandable. You don't? How would you feel if the shoe were on the other foot?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    I cannot believe we are so broken that someone could write that in public in 2021. Admittedly under a pseudonym. Migod.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Insurrection? What insurrection? Do you mean the summer long violent riots, looting and arson where over 25 Americans were killed and billions of dollars of damage done? If there had been an insurrection on Jan. 6 the bodies of leftist Democrats, would still be hanging from the Cherry trees so thoughtfully provided by the Emperor of Japan.
    January 6 was an attack directly on the functioning of our government. Does that not make it an insurrection?
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    If/when Trump is charged, it will be after 'they' have tons of ammunition. Wheels of justice turn slowly, often disturbingly so, but as long as they keep turning, the web will grow.

    I still think some, many, or all of those who are taken into custody and are facing serious charges will realize their hero DID NOT PARDON THEM, and they are on their own.

    If/when that sinks in, self preservation, combined with anger, can make things interesting.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Insurrection? What insurrection? Do you mean the summer long violent riots, looting and arson where over 25 Americans were killed and billions of dollars of damage done? If there had been an insurrection on Jan. 6 the bodies of leftist Democrats, would still be hanging from the Cherry trees so thoughtfully provided by the Emperor of Japan.
    Can you say, black lives matter?
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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Insurrection? What insurrection? Do you mean the summer long violent riots, looting and arson where over 25 Americans were killed and billions of dollars of damage done? If there had been an insurrection on Jan. 6 the bodies of leftist Democrats, would still be hanging from the Cherry trees so thoughtfully provided by the Emperor of Japan.
    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I cannot believe we are so broken that someone could write that in public in 2021. Admittedly under a pseudonym. Migod.
    Sadly, I can believe it. All too easily.

    Permission has been granted to let ALL the ugliness show these days. But it has always been there. It's just now, it's public, and will be (is) cheered on by fellow travelers.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    You’re right Tom.

    As it is with all mobs.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seabeau View Post
    Insurrection? What insurrection? Do you mean the summer long violent riots, looting and arson where over 25 Americans were killed and billions of dollars of damage done? If there had been an insurrection on Jan. 6 the bodies of leftist Democrats, would still be hanging from the Cherry trees so thoughtfully provided by the Emperor of Japan.
    My goodness, we've got ourselves a live one.

    Well, bless your heart, Mr Seabeau, but I think we need to get a little clarity here. I know far more about the unpleasantness this summer than you ever will, since I work four blocks from the Minneapolis 3rd Precinct police station. If you can't tell the difference between completely justified political protest, general stupid angry hooliganism, commercially-motivated looting, and far-right provocateurs, even if they're happening at the same time, you really ought to think about it until you figure it out.

    And none of that, good, bad or indifferent, has anything to do with, nor is the slightest excuse for the violent attack on your and my country's democratic process. A mob incited by the losing presidential candidate and his supporters tried to overturn the results of a free and democratic presidential election. If you support that, you support sedition against the government of the United States (you can read the statute here). It was most certainly an insurrection - a small, weak, poorly-planned, and poorly-executed one, since Mr Trump is an utterly incompetent authoritarian and can't organize his way out of the proverbial paper bag (it's his best feature), but an insurrection every bit as much as the rebellion to preserve slavery 160 years ago.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 04-18-2021 at 09:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Peace protests almost always bring out pretenders who loot and destroy to give the protest a bad name.

    As I recall, it was a peaceful crowd Trump had used force to clear so he could do a photo op in front of a church.

    Jan. 6, was Trump's crowd. he told them to walk down to the Capital. In fact, he said he'd join them. He didn't.

    More and more evidence is surfacing that this attack was planned for, and by, Trump. It was intended to stop the certification of what was the most secure election in our history.

    Over 60 judges, some appointed by Trump, tossed suits claiming voter fraud FOR LACK OF ANY EVIDENCE.

    These were not patriots. They were domestic terrorists. Over 400 have been arrested. At least one is taking a deal and providing information. I doubt he'll be the only one, as these Trump fans realize they are on their own, as Trump has not pardoned any of them, and is not offering help with their legal fees.

    They've been conned. Hopefully, that will dawn on them. Then they'll throw Trump under the 'bus'.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Seabeau = Sebell?????????

    If so, that would make the "Mr." incorrect...
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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Sobell, for 'southern belle' , IIRC. Not the same style, although I could be wrong.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Right you are Mr. Wilson! I just found the POV similar, along with the handle.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Right you are Mr. Wilson! I just found the POV similar, along with the handle.

    Just another Dooshibilly Trumpster. It probably won’t last long...

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Sobell was IIRC one Connie Chastain, author of southern-themed romance novels. Link here.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    They won't charge him because they know that any half competent lawyer will show the words he used did not specifically say "Invade the Capitol Building, vandalize, steal, attack the police, and kidnap elected representatives".
    Like Michael Cohen said his fixers and enablers don’t need explicit orders. To get along you go along.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    I expect 6 months from now a LOT WILL LOOK DIFFERENT.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: Oathkeeper founder takes plea bargain over Jan 6.

    "Will no one rid me of this turbulent ………… "

    Guilty.

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