Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Alden Schooner

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    lake clear, ny, usa
    Posts
    12

    Default Alden Schooner

    John Alden schooner, the thought of which is enough to get my blood pumping... so now its in my yard, for 1$ at that. Most expensive dollar Ive ever spent Im guessing. 1$ schooners dont come complete and ready to sail away, and this one is no different. Knew the CL timbers in varying stages of decay, bronze fasteners eroded/corroded, cedar planks eaten by worms, thought the rib feet might be rotten (their not), suspected there might be broken ribs (but 40+, really...). So your asking what type of overly enthusiastic fool takes this on and to what end, Me too.

    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/rob/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.jpg[/IMG]
    I am painfully aware of the propensity of these projects (and their postings) to peter out after getting barely started, or dragging along then dying in some undignified way... I do make my living restoring boats, although small ones typically. I do have experienced help and commentators to encourage and cajole periodically. I have a year or more time and some budget and a space to work in. Then one day you just start doing things, pulling off planks, getting at those keel bolts, pulling off the deadwood, scheduling a crane... so now were up to date.

    She is design #335, 36', 9 Ton, same design as Tyhee, but with an extended house, yep, the one in free boats in the mag last issue. There are other things Im not sure of the originality as well as the house, such as that she has 5 longitudinal stringers instead of a single bilge stringer... and still all the ribs broke at the turn of the bilge on one of the above stringers. Who was it that said every old boat is a treasure trove of destructive testing, maybe Bud or McClave...
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/rob/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image004.jpg[/IMG]

    To her credit, she has a nice shiny interior! Alright its a bit mildewy, but it is vg mahogany and bronze, the spars look new (hollow, gaff), she has 2 sets of sails (one new), Edson gear, 3T of lead, bronze deck fittings all over. Engine turns over by hand (westerbeke four-107). The deck itself is badly glassed ply, but the structure (oak/bronze) looks very solid beneath. My general plan is to pull the hull off the ballast keel (scheduled crane) and plunk it in the yard. Build a new hull on the lead and re-fill it with as much of the old boat as is useful. Im not going to follow Leo of TallyHo fame, and replace each individual piece one at a time - thats not a criticism, Im very appreciative of his work.

    One of the first walls Im running up against is a lack of information, specifically plans of any kind. The Hart/MIT museum is shut down for.... who knows how long, at least till summer 22 now, and they are the sole trustees of the plans to this design. If anyone has any inside contacts/access/knowledge to the collection/museum (or a set of plans), I would be grateful for your assistance/suggestions here. According to the MIT website they will consider projects for MIT students/faculty/staff... so they have the ability, they are just not doing it on a normal basis. Knowing how to deal with the modified structures and damage patterns require plans.

    Back to the treasure trove of destructive testing... regardless of what the plans say something different has to happen with the stringers... or not, what really caused the rib fractures all in a row? Rigging, heavy ribs, poorly bent ribs.... gonna need some intellectual help here to ensure it doesnt happen again. The boat is 50 yrs old, and I dont really know if she has seen hard service. Shees been on the hard for 5 yrs now, well enough tarped for the interior, not so for the rotten deadwood though. Before that she lived in a marina, and suffers significant electrolytic corrosion to her bronze #12s (and probably 7/8" keel bolts - although they are bonded). I pulled the broadstrake off with my hands (in one piece) without bothering to removing the red/pink/green fasteners - which just spun anyway. The above WL planks and fasteners are still beautiful, tight seams, no hogging, sweet shear.

    More to come (see paragraph #2)...
    DSC_4298.jpgIMG_9034.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    50,173

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Having romanced an Alden 43 till Hurricane Bob took her away, I hope you get her floating. Great boat to sail.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    21,091

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Looks like a great project. You might try contacting Evelyn Ansel at the Herreschof Marine Museum. She scanned lots of stuff for the Hart Collection, she might be able to give you some leads. I think her email is e.ansel@herreshoff.org

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    3,430

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Do you have the book? There is a one page writeup on Tyehee that has a lines plan and a sailplan and some photos. Not a ton of info, but worth getting if you don't have it already.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    19,420

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    geeze that is not even a hard turn and still they broke.
    oak,huh never saw that before.
    will the interior need to be demo'ed or can you cut it away carefully?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    3,430

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    I wonder if it fell over in the yard or got crushed against a pier or something. Are the frames on the other side the same?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    lake clear, ny, usa
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Both sides of the hull have ribs broken along the same plank line... stringer is only 1.75 x 4.5", not huge by any means for 1.2" thick plank... Dave Kerr says thats ok, although there are 5 of em...

    Im hoping to sacrifice the hull to get the interior out, once Ive gleaned everything material and info wise I can from it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Concord, NH, USA
    Posts
    531

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Wow!! I'll be following your adventure here. This is the kind of thing I dream about that is entirely incompatible with my marriage!

    -jeff

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Shubenacadie NS
    Posts
    5,290

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    OOoh, this is going to be fun. I'll pull up some popcorn and an easy chair to follow along.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    lake clear, ny, usa
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    ribs are 1.75 square on this 9Ton boat. Using Kerrs scantling # I get as 2.1, which suggests 1.8" sq rib x-s... any comments on Kerrs #s?

    Just measured stringers and they are actually 1.25 x 3.5, even less likely to be a hard point, though they are mahogany.

    Ribs compared to Herreshofs cruiser Neria (1.75 x 2" @ 12Tons/36') seem reasonable, accounting for Herreshofs light scantlings (and heavy ballast)...

    No mast tie rods and modified (enlarged) cabin top leading to reduced deck rigidity?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    16,064

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Yours won't be the first Alden schooner to receive a new hull on top of the old ballast keel.
    I wish you well and am looking forward to the project.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    21,091

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Quote Originally Posted by peter radclyffe View Post
    adk, do you understand that old wood on boats is weaker than new wood
    He did say he would be replacing all of the old wood.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    yes, i said that to explain that light frames are ok new

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Now, there's a long story...
    Posts
    1,691

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Not sure there's enough information to help, but look for a copy of Number 83 (July/August 1988), for a story called The Wreck at Cape Ann.
    I know there's a lines plan there, as well as a few other details on TYHEE. You might find something helpful.

    I have always been fascinated by small schooners. I'm waiting for MIT to open again, because I'd like to make a model, but that can wait. Not an Alden, but I'm in a similar conundrum with sourcing plans for the first COASTER... emails remain unanswered, but I understand everyone is busy.

    Do you have any photos of the interior? You said it was in good shape. The drawings in both the book and the article are rather small and it's difficult to see details.
    Heute ist so ein schöne Tag...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    19,420

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    ADK, You mention you have a year....better step on it. been a day with nuttin hoppnin.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    lake clear, ny, usa
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    Thanks all, I do have both references to this design. The WB article in particular was influential in convincing me to take this on, the way they speak of experiencing her sailing behavior and overall presence played strongly to my long held reverence for Aldens designs, especially the salty old ones... with spoon bows and gaffs...

    Ive been assured that the missing bronze ports and cowlings are coming my way. Note daylight in pic 1, thats the removed broad/GB. 85 gals of freshwater in two stainless tanks... seems like a lot for a one sink boat. Think one of them will go to make way for a nice settee/berth.

    Bit difficult to see but note the 3 stringers (every third ceiling plank) in the 2 last pics. The one small drawing I have depicts a single stringer where youd expect it. Im noticing that the shape of the ballast is also different along with the maststeps in the original drawings...


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    50,173

    Default Re: Alden Schooner

    The value of plans. In '91 I started working in Boston, found winter dockage in the North End easy walk to work, and found on the other side of the warf the Alden office. It was fun not only watching a senior and elderly gentleman do the records search but once we found Goblin's plans, he also brought up the plans for the famed Alden 43. Overlaying them showed the subtle differences between Goblin and the 43's, mostly due to Goblin's cast iron keel that spread the pitching arm out, ensured the durability of the centerboard case, and led to some amazingly sharp bangs when hitting a rock.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    19,420

    Default Re: Alden Schooner


    This reminds me of "Hearts Desire". Goofy then, goofy now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •