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Thread: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

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    Default If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Does that mean one believes we need to get guns off the street?

    If police can't do their job for fear of too many people able/likely to shoot them, what's the plan?
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    What's the plan?

    More GOOD toddlers with guns!
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Good luck, there is no plan.
    Stay calm, be brave....wait for the signs. Possibly precariously prevaricating.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    A lot of police forces and unions want stronger gun laws while the pro-gun politicians claim to be pro-police.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Simply watch and compare the difference between Blue States and Red States and how their civil servants treat their citizens. I have. We have the Deep South and we are still more respectful to our fellow citizens. I think part of Socialism is that the individual's worth disappears as his individual rights are diminished. I have no other way to explain Minnesota. By all the criteria, investment, funding, education, training, courts...the state shouldn't be having these problems.
    "Deconstruction is not a method, and cannot be transformed into one" Jacques Derrida (1930–2004)

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed


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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    if we cant rely on the police to do their jobs
    then might i suggest it's time to arm and protect yourself
    but then it's ever been thus sheeple
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Of course, if only criminals have guns then everyone gets to make spot assessments of whether someone's a criminal or not. Having or not having a gun isn't going to stop cops from assuming that every black person is likely to have a gun.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by Landrith View Post
    Simply watch and compare the difference between Blue States and Red States and how their civil servants treat their citizens. I have. We have the Deep South and we are still more respectful to our fellow citizens. I think part of Socialism is that the individual's worth disappears as his individual rights are diminished. I have no other way to explain Minnesota. By all the criteria, investment, funding, education, training, courts...the state shouldn't be having these problems.
    You may be right in your statistic there, but to state that socialism is to blame is way off the mark. I live in a country that by conservative American standards is about half a slippery step from communism, and the police and government here go to quite extraordinary lengths to ensure that the rights of the individual are preserved.
    I'd say that the Scandinavian, along with most of Western Europe is much the same.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    I am in Kansas today but look at Arkansas, yea Arkansas. With both the historic burdens of the Deep South and a border state. The most gruesome race and anti-labor lynching past, still among the least public investment in public education and law enforcement training, greatest income disparity, etc. and despite it recently among the least police misconduct...this is why Minnesota is problematic for me.
    Last edited by Landrith; 04-15-2021 at 10:06 PM.
    "Deconstruction is not a method, and cannot be transformed into one" Jacques Derrida (1930–2004)

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Does that mean one believes we need to get guns off the street?

    If police can't do their job for fear of too many people able/likely to shoot them, what's the plan?
    Get rid of the black people.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by Landrith View Post
    I am in Kansas today but look at Arkansas, yea Arkansas. With both the historic burdens of the Deep South and a border state. The most gruesome race and anti-labor lynching past and despite still among the least public investment in public education and law enforcement training, greatest income disparity, etc. and recently among the least police misconduct...this is why Minnesota is problematic for me.
    arkansas, meh

    an anomaly, whitest state of the former confederacy, least densely populated state of the former confederacy
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    arkansas, meh

    an anomaly, whitest state of the former confederacy, least densely populated state of the former confederacy
    My grandparents had a weekend home in NW Arkansas so on its face the area is even more an anomaly the way you are looking at it, but the town with the nearby stores was Siloam Springs...I remember as a child having the sundown laws explained to me (and still not understanding or about lynchings). It would have been about 1968 and they were not referring to the turn of the prior century. I somehow remember it was in the context of something that week.

    Now Kansas gets to the top honestly. Big big per capita spending on law enforcement training and public education in general. SO big that they probably are far more Socialist than Minnesota ever even wanted to be if you consider the property tax impact...
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed,

    then they are a fool. Cops are shooting fleeing blacks in the back, fer cripes sake.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Originally Posted by Landrith
    Simply watch and compare the difference between Blue States and Red States and how their civil servants treat their citizens. I have. We have the Deep South and we are still more respectful to our fellow citizens. I think part of Socialism is that the individual's worth disappears as his individual rights are diminished. I have no other way to explain Minnesota. By all the criteria, investment, funding, education, training, courts...the state shouldn't be having these problems.
    Despite a couple of recent very nasty high-profile cases, Minnesota is 38th out of 50 in the number of people killed by police (per capita, 2013 through present). Data here.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Funny how violent those “respectful” Deep South cops are

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    I changed my mind about US police gun culture when I read the Wiki on death by Cop.

    Several were due to a US citizen, one a white woman, pulling a gun on a cop during a traffic stop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_..._United_States

    The bottom line is that SCOTUS made a crap ruling that armed the citizenry.

    Then the murders began.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    .
    Plan?

    PLAN???

    We don't need no stinking plan!
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Get rid of the black people.
    Let me make this statement, and see if people agree with it or not.

    Police seem far more afraid of a black person who 'might' be armed than a white person they KNOW is armed.

    They somehow seem to arrest the white person, rather than shoot him.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed,

    then they are a fool. Cops are shooting fleeing blacks in the back, fer cripes sake.
    True, this 'fear' seems based on skin color. I'd go further than 'seems' to 'is'.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by Landrith View Post
    My grandparents had a weekend home in NW Arkansas so on its face the area is even more an anomaly the way you are looking at it, but the town with the nearby stores was Siloam Springs...I remember as a child having the sundown laws explained to me (and still not understanding or about lynchings). It would have been about 1968 and they were not referring to the turn of the prior century. I somehow remember it was in the context of something that week.

    Now Kansas gets to the top honestly. Big big per capita spending on law enforcement training and public education in general. SO big that they probably are far more Socialist than Minnesota ever even wanted to be if you consider the property tax impact...
    I lived in the Fayetteville area, worked in Springdale, & often went over to Siloam Springs in the early 70's & was extremely grateful I was not black. The completely accepted, normalized, everday racism blew this New Englander away.

    The stuff going on in Minnesota is making national news because it's unusual & because people are objecting to it. The same behavior could happen in many southern states & hardly be noticed - though that's finally beginning to change.

    If high property taxes = more socialism, New Hampshire, the "Live Free or Die" state must be pretty darn socialist.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Cops are exactly trained not to 'protect and serve', but to consider every incident, no matter how trivial, as an opportunity for some civilian to shoot a cop.

    Zero guns = zero gun deaths. Do the math.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Cops are exactly trained not to 'protect and serve', but to consider every incident, no matter how trivial, as an opportunity for some civilian to shoot a cop.

    Zero guns = zero gun deaths. Do the math.
    How do they manage to not kill so many white people who are armed?
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Let me make this statement, and see if people agree with it or not.

    Police seem far more afraid of a black person who 'might' be armed than a white person they KNOW is armed.

    They somehow seem to arrest the white person, rather than shoot him.
    That's because they assume the white person isn't angry.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    The history of law enforcement in the US is one of social control of 'undesirable' groups, not crime prevention. See white collar crime.
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    How does the saying go? "If we outlaw guns, only the black people will have guns." Or something like that...
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    I'm trying to understand this. Is it supposed to be the rate of police misconduct, the rate of prosecution for police misconduct, or the rate of conviction for police misconduct?

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I'm trying to understand this. Is it supposed to be the rate of police misconduct, the rate of prosecution for police misconduct, or the rate of conviction for police misconduct?
    Me neither. I read it as saying VT had huge #'s. 2000 misconducts per capita? So VT had 1,260,000,000 police misconduct events in a quarter (2,000*630,000)? That'd be 14,000,000 per day. If we had 10,000 cops (we don't - dunno the # of local cops, but we have 322 state troopers) - that'd be 1400 misconducts per cop per day. Damn they're busy!
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    David G
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    One “explains” Minnesota by focusing on the important part: Minneapolis St Paul. It’s the 16th biggest metro area in the U.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_urban_areas

    Kansas City is half its size.

    Arkansas? Little Rock is 89th, 1/6th the size of MSP.

    Police misconduct is positively correlated with urban area size for a whole bunch of causative reasons like race and poverty and density.

    It has nothing to do with “socialism” or southern courtesy and manners.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Me neither. I read it as saying VT had huge #'s. 2000 misconducts per capita? So VT had 1,260,000,000 police misconduct events in a quarter (2,000*630,000)? That'd be 14,000,000 per day. If we had 10,000 cops (we don't - dunno the # of local cops, but we have 322 state troopers) - that'd be 1400 misconducts per cop per day. Damn they're busy!
    Yes, it makes no sense. It might almost make more sense to think they labeled it incorrectly. Could the chart be trying to show how many police encounters there are for every one misconduct?

    In other words, the 2012 U.S. average (according to the chart) is 970.57. Are they trying to say that for every 970.57 police encounters, 1 of them involves misconduct?

    That would certainly change the meaning of the chart's color's. In that case, the redder the state, the less misconduct; the bluer, the more misconduct.

    It's a poorly designed and explained chart. Someone in layout didn't know what they were doing. It's essentially meaningless as is.

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Brazil is football on the sand. I couldn’t show the US because it is three screens down the list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    I started driving in 1987. I remember getting pulled over soon afterwards. As the cop walked up to my VW, he had his hand on his service piece and the strap was unsnapped. At that point in my life I looked more like a girl than a guy, I weighed all of 130 pounds and had long curly hair. Imagine if I had been a muscular black man?
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    Default Re: If one truly believes police are afraid anyone they pull over might be armed

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I'm trying to understand this. Is it supposed to be the rate of police misconduct, the rate of prosecution for police misconduct, or the rate of conviction for police misconduct?
    Nice to see I'm not the only one who can't make sense of this chart.

    "Misconduct" is a pretty vague word. What might be seen as misconduct today may well have been accepted practice in the not so distant past. "Sundowner" laws are a prime example.
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