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Thread: First build and have a couple plans in mind

  1. #1
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    Default First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Looking for first build. Boat will be used in saltwater in south florida. Two adults fishing in the ocean within a mile or two of shore fishing the reefs or trolling. Other duties would be cruising with the family in the intercoastal. I was looking at some of the power dory plans in the 17 -18 range and came across the digger 17. Could anyone comment on how well that design might work for these uses? Looking at the flat bottom as first build for an easier build and lower power requirements

    http://paryachts.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_39.html?m=1

  2. #2
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Gonna be a little bit, got a baby on the way in June so sometime after that. bouncing between plans and cant make up my mind lol. Was looking at spira's tillimook and carolinian dorys also.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Don't be put off by a V hull even for the first build. The extra work is a very small percentage of the whole build. There aren't more complicated techniques involved either, if you can attach the sides to the bottom you can build a basic V hull.

    Look at the Tolman family of skiffs. They are good, seaworthy boats designed for people like you and me to build. More satisfactory than a flat bottom for your needs too.
    A big advantage of this family of boats is the community of helpful builders to draw ideas and help from.

    I like some of Paul's (Par) boats and miss him too. Spira boats are... Moving on, there is a reason why Tolman's boats have way more successful (very important) builders.
    Last edited by Autonomous; 04-13-2021 at 02:14 PM.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Such a boat will be a little dicey going through Port Everglades unless you go on the flood and with light winds....and forget about Hillsboro.

    Something with some V in it will prove more able and easier to control running through the steep chop and standing waves of a coastal inlet.

    Not that you can't go, but you will really want to pick your days. If it's, "sailfish weather," stay home.

    Kevin

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Thanks for the tips. I'll check those out and Move on to other plans lol.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Albury Runabout may suit your needs. I think someone's in the middle of one on this very forum. Or am I mis-remembering something the past?
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    A Marissa 18 may be an option?

    https://bandbyachtdesigns.com/marissa/

  8. #8
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    That Marissa 18 is nice. You might want to check out Sam Devlin's designs https://devlinboat.com/shop/fishing-boats/

    Most are stich and glue and designed for a home builder. There was a really nice build thread on the Candlefish 16 on here a few years back.

    Oh, and welcome aboard!

    Mike

  9. #9
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Some of these designs are simpler to build than others. Remember this is a first time builder that was considering a flat bottom for simplicity.

    Withoutaplan, a time tested and proven first step is to build a dinghy with the same techniques as your destination boat.
    You develop your needed skills and make your rookie mistakes on the dinghy. Then you will know if you actually want to build the bigger boat and if you do it will go faster with less waste and higher quality.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  10. #10
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    V-bottom build, watch Lou Sauzedde videos while your doing daddy-work, starting here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3o8-mL1Eug

  11. #11

    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    I'll second (or third, or...) the recommendations for a (moderate) v-bottom and for a Tolman. I built a flat bottom skiff, which we use and like a lot. I am waiting for time to free up to build a shallow v-bottom to accomplish the same things we use the flat bottom for, but with more comfort and less concern about burying the bow.

    I have the Digger plans, and I think it is fair to say that a comparably fitted out Tolman would be in the same ballpark in terms of hours and skills. I don't think that would be fair to say about the Albury or Marissa (unless maybe you spring for the Marissa kit). They are both fantastic designs -- but seem much bigger undertakings.

    If you are looking for simplicity, one idea is to build the Tolman Standard rather than the Widebody. It would save having to cut and install the chine flats. You could even get the advantage of the chine flats on the Standard by running the sides past the bottom and filling in the resulting space as Tom Lathrop does on the Bluejacket boats. I think there was a discussion of this technique on the Tolman sometime in the not-to-distant past. You would give up the extra 6" of beam, though, so you'd want to consider whether it was worth the sacrifice.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Autonomous View Post
    Don't be put off by a V hull even for the first build. The extra work is a very small percentage of the whole build. There aren't more complicated techniques involved either, if you can attach the sides to the bottom you can build a basic V hull.

    Look at the Tolman family of skiffs. They are good, seaworthy boats designed for people like you and me to build. More satisfactory than a flat bottom for your needs too.
    A big advantage of this family of boats is the community of helpful builders to draw ideas and help from.

    I like some of Paul's (Par) boats and miss him too. Spira boats are... Moving on, there is a reason why Tolman's boats have way more successful (very important) builders.

    Kevin and Autonomous are exactly right. In the usual simple design, a moderate V bottom is not more difficult than a flat one and offers distinct advantages. The result in the end is that there are more things that go into the difficulty of building a boat and the bottom design is not a big deal.

    I miss Par and his highly useful input to the forum as well as his willingness to discuss things with other builders. I was certain to read anything he had to comment on as it was usually spot on.

    Marissa is both beautiful as well as a great performer in both seaworthy quality and lower power requirements. While Marissa is within the ability of any decent carpenter, It is not in the same category of simplicity as Digger or other similar boats. The flat bottom of Spira boats are the result of the need to launch and return to a shallow beach in moderate seas. The flat bottom dory form is of the Spira and other similar boats are great at this.

    Your needs should dictate the directions your chosen boat form will take.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Need to speak up for flat bottoms.

    There are, indeed, tradeoffs. Flat bottoms are easier to build, and easier for a first-time builder to conceptualize. And you can power flat-bottom boats with a smaller outboard - all else being equal. And they'll be a bit lighter, if you're pushing the limits of your tow vehicle.

    Never been to Florida, but I get the impression that there are a lot of places where being to drag a boat up on the beach would be nice. Flat bottoms are easier to beach, and to re-launch.

    On the flip side - if your waters tend toward the choppy at all, you'll appreciate the softer, quieter ride of something with some V forward, and maybe a bit of deadrise aft. And a V will lend some lateral resistance, if your area is windy a lot and you might tend to get blown off-course a lot. Someone like Kevin, with local knowledge, is better positioned to read and judge the scales on those tradeoffs.

    Just don't assume, as you might from the feedback so far, that V-bottoms are better for all boats, all builders, and all waters.

    Also - Spira designs. They are solid basic boats designed for the rankest of beginners to successfully build. They are heavier than they might be - toward that end. But they are not crappy designs. Don't totally write them off.

    That said - there's the opposite end of the spectrum to consider as well. If you're up for more of a challenge, which will net you a more sophisticated boat in the end, consider some of Mark B's offerings --

    https://bowdidgemarinedesigns.com/po...ns-under-20ft/
    Last edited by David G; 04-14-2021 at 11:12 PM.
    David G
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    I initially was considering spira plans because they looked simple and I liked the way his carolina and pacific dorys looked.
    He does have a v-bottom version of his carolina style but I saw a video of one and it was not very stable and actually looked
    Slightly dangerous.

    I really like the tolman skiffs and probably will end up doing one eventually. Everyone down here in south Florida has the same
    Style center console or bay boat and was looking for something different. I'll pick something eventually lol

  15. #15
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Check out some Walt Simmons designs. ducktrapstore.com I think.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Renn Tolman was a brilliantly practical man with a gift for writing instructions an everyday Joe could use to achieve a good, seaworthy and affordable boat. His is not the only boat that would meet your requirements but I don't know of another that checks as many boxes for your experience level and needs. I don't have any hard data but they seem to have a higher than average rate of completion, this matters.
    Think hard about building a dinghy out of wood and glass first. It is like going to trade school before starting your career.

    Fast Skiff 19 Boat Plans (FS19) - Boat Builder Central
    Classic 19 Center Console Boat Plans (C19) - Boat Builder Central
    These boats are worth a hard look. Remember, people get 2 footitis for longer, not shorter boats. These guys also recommend beginners build a small boat first.
    Keep us posted.
    Last edited by Autonomous; 04-15-2021 at 01:50 PM.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  17. #17
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    20170321_121908.jpg20170124_140254.jpg
    For a first time builder, a v bottom Tolman is not that hard. Most people build them as their first attempt at boatbuilding. I don't know of any people who have started and given up although there are a few have been at it for a few years. A good way to quantify how long and difficult a build will be is to count the parts needed to build the boat. They don't get much simpler than a Tolman, whose parts consist of two longitudinal stringers, transom, bowstem, shelves, bottom panels and side panels (and chine flats for the widebody and jumbo models). Kits of cnc pre-cut parts are also available from shops is Maine, Oregon and Alaska.
    Last edited by jim shula; 04-15-2021 at 11:45 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    This sounds like a perfect application for the Bolger Clam Skiff designs with flat bottom and a planing shoe, see the 15' 6" and 18' Workskiff models on Payson's Instant Boats site:

    https://www.instantboats.com/product...power-designs/

    Those are for more traditional plywood and frame construction, if you wanted to try your hand at tack-and-tape (like stitch-and-glue but no stitching required as the panels are already where they need to be) then the 15' Diablo and 18' Diablo Grande on the same page would also be worth a look.

    All four designs are popular and well-proven. The Payson books are also a handy reference for anyone but especially a first-time boatbuilder.

    clam skiff.jpg

    diablo.jpg
    *******
    Matthew Long
    Bolger fan (Brick, Yellow Leaf, June Bug, Tortoise and half a Teal)
    Dreaming of a small cruiser from Atkin, Bolger, Buehler or Parker
    www.cluttonfred.info (I also like homebuilt airplanes!)

  19. #19
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Some nice boats there....all good examples of fairly easy boats to build.
    I built a Bateau stitch and glue Classic 17'... center console version.... v-bottom 11 degree deadrise at the transom
    Was good to have some experience building kayaks and using epoxy before building the bigger boat.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #20
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Autonomous View Post

    Fast Skiff 19 Boat Plans (FS19) - Boat Builder Central
    Classic 19 Center Console Boat Plans (C19) - Boat Builder Central
    These boats are worth a hard look. Remember, people get 2 footitis for longer, not shorter boats. These guys also recommend beginners build a small boat first.
    Keep us posted.
    Looked at those, then the FS14. Looks like it would be a good fishing boat for one or two people on inland lakes. Has anyone here built one?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    This thread on the FAO designs may be of interest - http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...nd-Gulbrandsen

    Mark Murray’s Sea Hoss Skiff might be even closer to your described wants. Not sure about the availability of plans these days though.
    Last edited by Wiley Baggins; 04-20-2021 at 07:55 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    I like the way Little Moby looks, anyone know if it can be extended slightly for more interior room?
    https://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plan...ff-little-moby

  23. #23

    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    I agree. Little Moby looks neat.

    I'd bet spacing out the frames a bit wouldn't cause any problems. It seems like a general rule of thumb for safe stretching is 10%. After you get to about 15'6" or so, if you go further you'd be looking at another set of scarfs and likely some more planking stock.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: First build and have a couple plans in mind

    one of the things I look for in a fishing skiff is an open floor plan with decent beam. tiller steering would be the simplest. i always like the Carolina skiff flat bottom design with casting deck.

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