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Thread: Hoisting Upper Staysails

  1. #1
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    Default Hoisting Upper Staysails

    A very easy question for people who had done this before, but almost impossible to answer if you are 500 miles away from the next coast.

    Some bigger sailing ships, especially square rigged ones like brigantines have multiple staysails in between the masts. Can anyone tell me how to hoist the upper one?

    A modern way would be to use a roller furling but back in the days?



    Background of the question is, that I have a rough idea to re rigg a staysail schooner, which I do not own yet, into a brigantine.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    ropes. they use ropes

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Blocks too, pulleys.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Well I guess sometimes they even use shackles. And most of the time a sail is also requested for that task.


    Ok, here is my guess. Somewhere on the forward mast there is a block with a halyard for the foot of the sail. On the aft mast there is also a a block for the halyard for the head of the sail a little bit above the block of the forward mast. The sail is then hoisted by pulling both ropes. No permanent stay involved in the process. Different to the staysails for the jibs.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    I'm no square rig expert by far, but I do not think those are "flying" sails, they all are hanked (shackled) on to stays.
    tackline on the tack would be for a flying sail...
    halyard on the head
    what you describe above sounds like a fisherman or gollywobbler.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I'm no square rig expert by far, but I do not think those are "flying" sails, they all are hanked (shackled) on to stays.
    tackline on the tack would be for a flying sail...
    halyard on the head
    what you describe above sounds like a fisherman or gollywobbler.
    But then I have no clue how to hank the sail on to the stay. A modern way would be to hoist it flying similar to a furling gennaker. Maybe back in the days it was also hoisted furled, tied together with break away "bungee" cords.

    Wikipedia gives as an example for what I mean a "mizzen upper topgallant staysail". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staysail

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    every sail in red in the illustration is hanked onto a stay
    I recon they are just bagged in place up in the mast.Gasketed.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails



    You may like to get a copy of “Seamanship in the Age of Sail” by John Harland, Conway Maritime Press, 1984.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 04-12-2021 at 11:08 AM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    You can brail them. I found it easier to brail up, that is to gather the sail up to the head and then release the halyard so the brailed sail is kept at the tack.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Quote Originally Posted by Olsalt View Post
    But then I have no clue how to hank the sail on to the stay. A modern way would be to hoist it flying similar to a furling gennaker. Maybe back in the days it was also hoisted furled, tied together with break away "bungee" cords.

    Wikipedia gives as an example for what I mean a "mizzen upper topgallant staysail". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staysail
    Setting or dousing most sails on a square rigger requires being up in the rig. Not the way you are likely to do it on a smallish staysail schooner.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Staysails on square riggers like you're asking about are normally kept on the stay, as they are in fore 'n afters. Send someone up to cast loose the sail, have sailors on deck haul it up with the halyard as one would for any other sail. Bruce is correct in that they are kept up the mast.

    Below you can make out Fritha's Main Topmast Staysl furled and bagged just abaft the foremast doubling.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    You gotta get up into the rig, it's fun.
    You'll need to learn a gasket hitch.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Thank you very much. So modern furling staysail it is for me.

    No, honestly thank's for all the answers.

    I think it also depends very much on the vessel size. A 100 meter full rigged ship uses different techniques than a smaller boat, where flying configurations seems possible. True?

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    I use "flying jibs" on my gaffers.well, one on each.
    Set and furl it like a spinnaker.
    Make fast halyard hand tight, then pull tackline to the anchor winch (or whatevawinch).
    it lives in a bag and has no stay.
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 04-13-2021 at 06:49 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Staysails are called staysails because they're on a stay.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Staysails are called staysails because they're on a stay.
    You are right mate, but nautical terms can be a pain in the behind and I have no clue what a "mizzen upper topgallant staysail" would be named if hoisted flying. To make things worse, some "staysails" like the fisherman are hoisted flying. Not sure what's the incorrect part here, that they are hoisted flying or that they are mentioned in the wiki article about staysails.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    nomenclature changes with where you are...and with time I gyess.
    A mainsail is named mainsail cuz it it on the main mast, not because it is the boats primary driver.
    We call our staysls ' "jibs", but a jib is a flying sail.
    To call a sail a "flying jib" ,which I do, is redundant ,no ?
    We use a sail called "mizzen stay'sl", but it has no stay. It should be called "mizzen jib".

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    What a lot of jibberish!
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    You guys need to stay on track, mainly.

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    How many ways can you hang a rag between two sticks?
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Love all this nautical talk

    Forgive my ignorance; what is gasketing?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Like Robands. ....gasketing, woolies. Like when you set a spinnaker gasketed with wool or rubber bands back in the day. Hoist the sail all bundled up and break it out with the sheet when you want it.
    Yes, I set a mizzen staysail flying all the time, it's wrong terminology. I suppose in modern terms it would be a mizzen asymetric A something.
    Last edited by John B; 04-13-2021 at 01:17 PM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    willin, if you look at a decent picture or good quality painting of a square rigger under sail, you'll notice a row of little coils of line hanging down the front of each sail at the head of it. Those are also robands, etc. John like is referring to.
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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    To clarify a bit -- historically gaskets were a permanent part of the rig -- made off on the yardarm and coiled around the sail when it was furled to keep everything tidy. When the sail was set, the gasket would be made up into a gasket coil and can sometimes be spotted hanging on the front side of the sail. The bigger the sail, the more gaskets would be involved. Here's the Kalmar Nyckel, whose gaskets I coiled countless times. You can make out a pair on the fore topsail near the topmast and two pair on the fore course. In modern times, yep, flimsy bits of yarn or rubber bands that fly off into the wind when the sail is set. That topsail actually has a third gasket that is used to secure the massive bunt of that sail to the mast -- the sail is just to big to pull up entirely to the yard.

    Kalmar Nyckel-gaskets.jpg

    And a harbor furl on the topsails. The courses have been doused but are just hanging in their gear. The cloth on the courses is so heavy there's no movement to speak of like this, and a full furl doesn't happen often. But gaskets are present when needed. The robands are the short lengths of line that secure the sail to the yard.

    Kalmar Nyckel-furled.jpg
    Last edited by Woxbox; 04-13-2021 at 03:36 PM.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Hoisting Upper Staysails

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Like Robands. ....gasketing, woolies. Like when you set a spinnaker gasketed with wool or rubber bands back in the day. Hoist the sail all bundled up and break it out with the sheet when you want it.
    Yes, I set a mizzen staysail flying all the time, it's wrong terminology. I suppose in modern terms it would be a mizzen asymetric A something.

    Gotcha
    Thanks

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