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Thread: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

  1. #106
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by npcosten View Post
    My understanding is that Carlos de Mendez (the dead electrician) didn't vault the turnstile. The policemen chasing him did....

    But yes, the small size of some US police forces is odd, and the Met shouldn't have got away with it....
    Police forces here in the colonies are of several groups. Each state has State Police, and then many towns & cities have them. New York City has thousands of cops, but a town population 2500 near me has a chief & 2 patrolman. That's still 2 more than they need, but they make a lot of money from speeding tickets. Strange, but speeding tickets pay for the entire department & then some. If they were to bring in cops from another town, they'd have to split the "proceeds" with that other town.

    It's all about the money.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #107
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by npcosten View Post
    My understanding is that Carlos de Mendez (the dead electrician) didn't vault the turnstile. The policemen chasing him did....

    But yes, the small size of some US police forces is odd, and the Met shouldn't have got away with it....
    de Menezes. And you are quite right, well done:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...les_de_Menezes
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  3. #108
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by npcosten View Post
    But yes, the small size of some US police forces is odd, and the Met shouldn't have got away with it....
    Local policing tends to be a somewhat emotional political issue and in communities like Brooklyn Center where police spending is 40% of a $20 million budget*, almost a raison d’etre. Forest Lake, a suburb further out about 30 minutes away from Brooklyn Center, tried to outsource their police to save money and this was reversed after local protests.

    *I suspect they may have some dire fiscal straights soon.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I'm sorry, if you're a police officer, YOU DON'T GET TO MAKE THAT KIND OF MISTAKE!!! Yes, I understand cops are human beings, but a gun instead of a taser??? She should be fired at the very minimum.
    I don't disagree with you. I do understand it though. Officers train a lot at the rapid smooth removal of their gun from its holster. To the point of having very strong muscle memory - it becomes instinctive. Yes fired if not prosecuted for manslaughter as well.

  5. #110
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    google oscar grant
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #111
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    To be strictly accurate, they stopped Daunte Wright because of expired plates, and then found there was a warrant out for his arrest. The warrant was for gross misdemeanor carrying a pistol without a permit, and misdemeanor fleeing police, issued on April 2 after he failed to appear in court. The air freshener thing wasn't the reason. Not to defend shooting him in the slightest; that's utterly indefensible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    I don't disagree with you. I do understand it though. Officers train a lot at the rapid smooth removal of their gun from its holster. To the point of having very strong muscle memory - it becomes instinctive. Yes fired if not prosecuted for manslaughter as well.
    Sure - but if they train so much that it becomes instinctive, then they damn well ought to train so that they smoothly and rapidly take out the right tool, and don't shoot people by mistake. I agree with you about manslaughter.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 04-12-2021 at 06:35 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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  7. #112
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Cris, thanks for this followup

    Rick

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Let's ask the obvious question: If an officer fires their gun when they mean to fire their Taser, does that constitute such a degree of professional incompetence that they should at least be fired?


    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I'd like to know how you could confuse the two.


    Since one wears the sidearm on one's sword arm side, and the Taser on your shield arm side, or on the back of the belt (that's the Taser training protocol), and the Taser itself is either yellow or yellow and black, and has LEDs that light up when it's activated, (and I believe it makes a sound), and it weighs less than a 9mm or .45 ACP semi-auto, and has a very different grip, and looks very different
    . . .
    It's hard to see how one could make that mistake.

    The police equivalent of "the dog ate my homework"

    Police Taser:



    Semi-auto pistol (police-issue Glock 9mm)

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  9. #114
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    I do not believe the cop's story about the taser. I think she just doens't want to be the next Derek Chauvin, on public trial for murder. It's a good story, nobody can prove otherwise.

    Oopsie, I didn't mean to shoot you, I thought I had pulled out my bubble wand!

  10. #115
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Neither do I but it cannot be easy for police having to treat every person they interact with as being armed and hostile until it is otherwise determined.

  11. #116
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Neither do I but it cannot be easy for police having to treat every person they interact with as being armed and hostile until it is otherwise determined.
    That cuts both ways.

    It cannot be easy for citizens to be forced to the assumption that the cops are armed to the teeth, paranoid, and tripping balls over the fact that they are the masters of Life and Death.

    Your boy Gatenby got his snout in the wringer over the fact that being a policeman in the States doesn't even make the top ten or fifteen of the most dangerous jobs in this country.

    The boy went full goose bozo on it.
    Rattling the teacups.

  12. #117
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Imagine a critical situation if she had pulled the taser instead of the gun...
    She would likely be dead. Complete incompetence either way. It's a lie

  13. #118
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Somehow, I have a difficulty processing two 'facts' here - 1) an officer on patrol with 26 years of service ( presumably with frequent / required firearm training / familiarization) , 2) said officer leans in and cautions 'Taser / Taser / Taser' while having service pistol in hand (per video) - one wonders whether the officer in question 'may' have been recently reassigned to the street from another position. Before any 'flames' start, as part of a dim, distant past - as part of my Navy career, I 'familiarized' literally hundreds of personnel on care, safety, and safe firing protocols for small arms (pistols / rifles / shotguns )



    Rick

  14. #119
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    What I have trouble understanding is why the cops aren't simply more careful and more calm.

    You have two cops and one driver. Cop #1 ought to be able to calmly give driver instructions, and cop #2 can have his gun ready and aimed, in case it's needed. Yelling to begin with seems unprofessional to me.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    gun ready and aimed?

    seriously???
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  16. #121
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Neither do I but it cannot be easy for police having to treat every person they interact with as being armed and hostile until it is otherwise determined.
    Depends on whether they have joined the current wave of gun rights. Do they want people to carry?

  17. #122
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    gun ready and aimed?

    seriously???
    But standing back kind of out of sight. He can always put it down when it's obviously not needed, but the person pulled over need not see it drawn. That takes care of the cops fear the person they pull over might be armed, it allows the other officer to calmly approach the driver.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  18. #123
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Depends on whether they have joined the current wave of gun rights. Do they want people to carry?
    One horribly ironic fact is that Daunte Wright's arrest warrant was for carrying a pistol without a permit (a gross misdemeanor), and then not showing up in court.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  19. #124
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    One horribly ironic fact is that Daunte Wright's arrest warrant was for carrying a pistol without a permit (a gross misdemeanor), and then not showing up in court.
    by not showing up in court, Keith means “missed a zoom call”

  20. #125
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Just heard on the morning news that the cop who doesn't know a Tazer from a semi-automatic pistol was not a newbie. She has 26 years in the Brooklyn Center PD.

  21. #126
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    by not showing up in court, Keith means “missed a zoom call”
    Good point.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  22. #127
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    Just heard on the morning news that the cop who doesn't know a Tazer from a semi-automatic pistol was not a newbie. She has 26 years in the Brooklyn Center PD.
    Twitter suggests that she was the local President of the Police Union in her suburb. Haven't seen that confirmed though.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  23. #128
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    What I have trouble understanding is why the cops aren't simply more careful and more calm.
    Yelling to begin with seems unprofessional to me.
    "Yelling" or giving a succinct command in a loud voice (drill sergeant style) is definitely part of the training.

    I worked with a retired CHP officer (Who was a trained in the Air Force mechanic) and when things would get "interesting" on a truck repair job that we were double teaming, he would move back, and say to me his standard line with the loud and perfectly composed voice of authority
    "Step away from the vehicle, Sir"
    It was pretty funny, yet still gave me a little chill.

  24. #129
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    lol
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  25. #130
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    The Militarized Mindset is most of the problem. Their culture of the police is the culture of the Military..look out for your own above anything else. Remember My Lai?

    Militarization Mindset Threatens Constitutional Rights and Public As police officers drape themselves in the trappings of a military force, they increasingly look like members of an army prepared to go to war against unarmed civilians, escalating tensions between the police and peaceful protestors. And as a 2017 study showed, in law enforcement agencies that use military equipment, officers are more likely to display violent behavior and are more likely to kill the civilians they are supposed to protect and serve.

    Tackle the problem, leave the BS behind.

  26. #131
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Resigned, both the Minnesota officer/shooter and the police chief

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/u...gtype=Homepage

    37C43556-69A2-47AE-A000-92D4E305E37A.jpg

  27. #132
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    The Militarized Mindset is most of the problem. Their culture of the police is the culture of the Military..look out for your own above anything else. Remember My Lai?

    Militarization Mindset Threatens Constitutional Rights and Public As police officers drape themselves in the trappings of a military force, they increasingly look like members of an army prepared to go to war against unarmed civilians, escalating tensions between the police and peaceful protestors. And as a 2017 study showed, in law enforcement agencies that use military equipment, officers are more likely to display violent behavior and are more likely to kill the civilians they are supposed to protect and serve.

    Tackle the problem, leave the BS behind.
    We learned in Norn Iron that the Army is crap at policing.

    It is a pity that the US is so inward looking and insular. Not invented here seems to figure large in the collective mentality.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  28. #133
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    From the police shootings reported in NYC (e.g. Amadou Diallo) the cops shoot until the gun is empty and then may even reload. Since she only pulled the trigger once, she seems to have been in "TASER mode".
    At 26 years on the force, she might well have transferred from a desk job to patrol to get overtime to increase her calculated pension.

  29. #134
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    "Yelling" or giving a succinct command in a loud voice (drill sergeant style) is definitely part of the training.
    Don't know when that changed. I was taught that:

    2. It's an escalation.
    1. Never escalate if you don't have to.

    Each escalation may have unpredictable effects, and build on itself, meaning, you're losing control, meaning, you're losing power, especially in a crowd. De-escalation is difficult and unpredictable.

    Do you want to be safe, or not? Then develop a fine appreciation of the elements of escalation, and avoid it.

  30. #135
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    Default Re: “Impressive Police Force you have there...”

    I worked with an ex army officer too, parallel authority in different divisions. He used that technique quite a lot, and I would mimic him and call him 'Captain Mainwaring'.

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