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  1. #1
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    Default Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Hello!

    I'm sure this has been covered ad-nasueum but quick search didn't turn much up.

    I have a decent stash of what I'm 80% sure is white oak. I've been studying macro photos of it's end-grain and trying to blow bubbles though it, seems like it's white, I'll keep testing.

    My preference would be to not use it and to use Doug Fir or something similar. I don't much like working with oak and would like to keep the boat light.

    Just wondering if I'm nuts to even consider it or if it's been done and works fine. My boat won't get a ton of use/abuse, we have a short season here in VT and I have a few other boats that need use.

    Any thoughts/opinions welcome, I'm just starting the planning process to start the build in the Fall.

    Thanks,

    jeff

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    More please.

    What boat design? Why light? Why the lean away from w. oak? Etc. Etc. Etc.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Tammie Norrie 14'

    Light because I plan on rowing it a fair amount. Not the biggest consideration, just one "plus" in the Doug Fir direction.

    If I can avoid oak dust, cutting oak, planing oak, chiseling oak, touching oak etc I would like to. It's just not a wood I particularly enjoy working with, never has been.

    I did a denatured alcohol test with a sample and it definitely looks like white oak, no capillary action to the top of the sample piece at all. So if the consensus is that Doug Fir would be a huge mistake, I have the oak.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Here is just some food for thought. Based on advice from professional builders, I made the keel on my Lightning from mahogany and cedar. The mahogany is in the middle and is 8 ft long. And a 5 1/2 ft piece of cedar is scarfed to each end of the mahogany. The mahogany is about 42% of the entire length of the boat. And the boat is pretty darn stiff.

    On the advice of the same professionals, my stem is also made from mahogany and cedar. The mahogany is in the middle of the stem, and the cedar is laminated to each side of the mahogany.

    This is just a guess, but, if a mostly cedar keel and stem are sturdy enough for my Lightning, it would likely be sturdy enough for your 14 ft boat.

    If that is true, then the oak for your boat sounds like it would be overkill, and the Fir would likely be fine.

    But that is just my inexpert guess . . .

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Seibert View Post
    Here is just some food for thought. Based on advice from professional builders, I made the keel on my Lightning from mahogany and cedar. The mahogany is in the middle and is 8 ft long. And a 5 1/2 ft piece of cedar is scarfed to each end of the mahogany. The mahogany is about 42% of the entire length of the boat. And the boat is pretty darn stiff.

    On the advice of the same professionals, my stem is also made from mahogany and cedar. The mahogany is in the middle of the stem, and the cedar is laminated to each side of the mahogany.

    This is just a guess, but, if a mostly cedar keel and stem are sturdy enough for my Lightning, it would likely be sturdy enough for your 14 ft boat.

    If that is true, then the oak for your boat sounds like it would be overkill, and the Fir would likely be fine.

    But that is just my inexpert guess . . .
    Agree with that guess.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Seibert View Post
    Here is just some food for thought. Based on advice from professional builders, I made the keel on my Lightning from mahogany and cedar. The mahogany is in the middle and is 8 ft long. And a 5 1/2 ft piece of cedar is scarfed to each end of the mahogany. The mahogany is about 42% of the entire length of the boat. And the boat is pretty darn stiff.

    On the advice of the same professionals, my stem is also made from mahogany and cedar. The mahogany is in the middle of the stem, and the cedar is laminated to each side of the mahogany.

    This is just a guess, but, if a mostly cedar keel and stem are sturdy enough for my Lightning, it would likely be sturdy enough for your 14 ft boat.

    If that is true, then the oak for your boat sounds like it would be overkill, and the Fir would likely be fine.

    But that is just my inexpert guess . . .
    Thanks for chiming in Mike! I haven't had a chance to run down your build but from a quick perusal it sounds like it was quite the epic! Beautiful boat, congrats!

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    The fir will be just fine. Laminate it to avoid cross grain and don't use any sapwood. Get it from the clear edges of some 2 x 12 framing lumber.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    What will the weight diff be? 5 pounds?

    The oak is (I'm guessing) local & the Doug Fir has to be trucked. A consideration I'd think.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    What will the weight diff be? 5 pounds?

    The oak is (I'm guessing) local & the Doug Fir has to be trucked. A consideration I'd think.
    Fair point. The weight difference is not going to be huge. But if the goal is to build a light boat, you need to take whatever opportunities are there.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    The fir will be just fine. Laminate it to avoid cross grain and don't use any sapwood. Get it from the clear edges of some 2 x 12 framing lumber.
    Interesting thoughts. I've been getting/using vert grain Doug Fir from Boulter Plywood for my boat projects to date, honestly not sure if it's sapwood or not but I'll do some research on it. If laminating all parts is the only acceptable way to employ Doug Fir for the spine then that may drive the decision right there. Not sure all that extra work is going to be worth the benefit.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    The best is to use Alaskan Yellow Cedar for the inner keelson and inner stem and to use Sapele for the outer keel, stem and inhales/ gunwales. Sapeli plywood until the turn of the bilge then Occume up the topsides and a sapelli plywood sheer strake. That's using the worlds best materials in the optimum location for the use.

    Both woods glue well unlike your oak. The Alaska yellow cedar is eternally durable, well suited to the inner keelson: you don't ever want to have rot there and with the centreboard opening and bilge rain water you want the most durable timber available. Of the very durable timbers, AYC is the most durable that glues well. It's also very easy to work and light. It's 'failing' is it's soft..that's not a problem for the keelson, floors and inner stem which don't get any abuse. But is a problem for the outer keel, stem and gunwales where trailer knocks, oars and straps etc require a timber that also glues well but is very hard, durable and dent resistant. Sapeli is a beautiful timber, glues well, is easy to obtain at the minute and is highly dent resistant. It has swirlyish grain and you'll need to take care with a plane with grain orientation but it's fairly easy to work.

    Same reason that you want a very durable garboard - you don't want to be ever replacing that one - it's sandwiched between the keel and keelson, so use the expensive sheet of Sapeli plywood for this one. It's much more durable and harder (stones on a beach) than Occume. Either just the garboard or to the turn of the bilge. That's because rain water will pool in your bilge between outings dependent on the quality of your cover. Condensation at the very least will run vertically down until it finds a horizontal surface and trap on the internal ridge laps. The sapeli plywood will last longer, and especially so if you epoxy coat it and fillet this area. It's heavier though than Occume good low down, so use Occume up the topsides where the weight reduction will be beneficial. The sheerstrake top edge is exposed to oar damage and once it loses its surface coating is an edge grain pointing to the rain unless it's covered. So Sapeli for the sheerstrake too. It also helps stiffen this ring round the boat and stiffens the gunwales for rowing. Even back in the day, carvel boats planked in softwood had a hardwood sheerstrake for the same reasons.

    You can go ultra light cedar and occur throughout of course or heavier throughout it all depends on desired aesthetics, weight, durability, what's available and in general someone who's built it will look after it. It's several owners later that the durability innate to the construction starts to playout. An attractive boat gets better looked after. A quality cover makes a difference. A boat that's easily used gets bailed out and sailed more often etc. Good paint...annual maintenance...it also makes a boat last or not.

    Iains's boats come out 'light' because of his highly efficient construction method, and sailed solo, sometimes too light and need ballast to get them down in the water to their design displacement, so building it heavier isn't always a problem and some prefer the motion and manners of a heavier boat. Again it's about personal preferences: an ultralight boat will accelerate in the puffs quicker and be easier to pull out on a trolley. My Tammie Norrie was all Sapele and 9mm. I don't think it was worse for it. A beautiful boat the Tammie Norrie. My Shearwater I built is yellow cedar/ Sapelli. The colours also work beautifully together under International Schooner Original tung oil spar varnish!
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 04-02-2021 at 06:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    The best is to use Alaskan Yellow Cedar for the inner keelson and inner stem and to use Sapele for the outer keel, stem and inhales/ gunwales. Sapeli plywood until the turn of the bilge then Occume up the topsides and a sapelli plywood sheer strake. That's using the worlds best materials in the optimum location for the use.

    Both woods glue well unlike your oak. The Alaska yellow cedar is eternally durable, well suited to the inner keelson: you don't ever want to have rot there and with the centreboard opening and bilge rain water you want the most durable timber available. Of the very durable timbers, AYC is the most durable that glues well. It's also very easy to work and light. It's 'failing' is it's soft..that's not a problem for the keelson, floors and inner stem which don't get any abuse. But is a problem for the outer keel, stem and gunwales where trailer knocks, oars and straps etc require a timber that also glues well but is very hard, durable and dent resistant. Sapeli is a beautiful timber, glues well, is easy to obtain at the minute and is highly dent resistant. It has swirlyish grain and you'll need to take care with a plane with grain orientation but it's fairly easy to work.

    Same reason that you want a very durable garboard - you don't want to be ever replacing that one - it's sandwiched between the keel and keelson, so use the expensive sheet of Sapeli plywood for this one. It's much more durable and harder (stones on a beach) than Occume. Either just the garboard or to the turn of the bilge. That's because rain water will pool in your bilge between outings dependent on the quality of your cover. Condensation at the very least will run vertically down until it finds a horizontal surface and trap on the internal ridge laps. The sapeli plywood will last longer, and especially so if you epoxy coat it and fillet this area. It's heavier though than Occume good low down, so use Occume up the topsides where the weight reduction will be beneficial. The sheerstrake top edge is exposed to oar damage and once it loses its surface coating is an edge grain pointing to the rain unless it's covered. So Sapeli for the sheerstrake too. It also helps stiffen this ring round the boat and stiffens the gunwales for rowing. Even back in the day, carvel boats planked in softwood had a hardwood sheerstrake for the same reasons.

    You can go ultra light cedar and occur throughout of course or heavier throughout it all depends on desired aesthetics, weight, durability, what's available and in general someone who's built it will look after it. It's several owners later that the durability innate to the construction starts to playout. An attractive boat gets better looked after. A quality cover makes a difference. A boat that's easily used gets bailed out and sailed more often etc. Good paint...annual maintenance...it also makes a boat last or not.

    Iains's boats come out 'light' because of his highly efficient construction method, and sailed solo, sometimes too light and need ballast to get them down in the water to their design displacement, so building it heavier isn't always a problem and some prefer the motion and manners of a heavier boat. Again it's about personal preferences: an ultralight boat will accelerate in the puffs quicker and be easier to pull out on a trolley. My Tammie Norrie was all Sapele and 9mm. I don't think it was worse for it. A beautiful boat the Tammie Norrie. My Shearwater I built is yellow cedar/ Sapelli. The colours also work beautifully together under International Schooner Original tung oil spar varnish!

    Great info, thanks so much for the thoughtful and thorough response. If there is a thread on your TN I'd love to see it, it did not come up in your profile listed threads.

    I was planning on 6mm okume. Your reasons for using sapele for the garboard, bilge-turn and sheerstrake are compelling. Similarly, using a rot-resistant, easy-to-work wood for the inner stem/keelson and a harder wood for the keel/outer stem makes incredible sense. It's all taken under advisement.

    Regarding weight, I had read that the TN is quite light for some sailing tastes. My thinking is that I can add ballast when sailing and still have a light boat for rowing. If that ultimately proves to be a bad choice/compromise, I'll build an Ilur, sail that, and row the TN. A friend recently asked, when I told her I was planning my third build: "How many boats do you need?". "Need? None. Want? Who knows!"

    Thanks again!

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    There are lots of 'good' choices, and both the oak and the douglas fir among them.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    There are lots of 'good' choices, and both the oak and the douglas fir among them.

    Appreciate that David. Completely unsure which direction I'm going to go at this point but very encouraged to hear that either will work.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by VT_Jeff View Post
    Hello!

    seems like it's white, I'll keep testing.
    Just as a side note you might be able to determine the species by cutting it and noting the aroma. I've always found that white oak smells like vanilla while red oak smells like cat piss. I don't know what other species of oak smell like.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Yevsky View Post
    Just as a side note you might be able to determine the species by cutting it and noting the aroma. I've always found that white oak smells like vanilla while red oak smells like cat piss. I don't know what other species of oak smell like.

    That test is new to me!

    It's definitely white. I had it sitting in denatured alcohol for about 3 days and not a drop wicked to the top.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Jeff - The unofficial name of my Lightning is "Seven Lost Years," although it was more like eight. It was my first boat build and I had no real carpentry experience, so the only things I had going for me were ignorance and unfounded blind faith. I built my Lightning the hard way. Very late in the process, I realized I am a visual learner, and that it was much better for me to just tear into the next step of the process than to spend months researching what I needed to do. In the end, my Lightning build helped make the long Vermont winters go more quickly, and I am happy with the way it came out, but it didn't need to be nearly as hard as I made it.

    Here are a couple of pictures:

    DSCN2073.jpg


    Classic.Rally.2019.001.jpg

    The second picture is from launch day, and, yes, we did remember to pull the bumper thingy out of the water before long.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Seibert View Post
    Jeff - The unofficial name of my Lightning is "Seven Lost Years," although it was more like eight. It was my first boat build and I had no real carpentry experience, so the only things I had going for me were ignorance and unfounded blind faith. I built my Lightning the hard way. Very late in the process, I realized I am a visual learner, and that it was much better for me to just tear into the next step of the process than to spend months researching what I needed to do. In the end, my Lightning build helped make the long Vermont winters go more quickly, and I am happy with the way it came out, but it didn't need to be nearly as hard as I made it.
    Beautiful! Just amazing the results you can get with ignorance and unfounded blind faith! I build for the same reason: pass the Vermont winters. My signature line on my other forum is "There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season and boat-building season".

    Still, I'm hoping to get my TN row-able inside of two years. I've seen builds run the gammut here: incredibly fast and "Who was President when I started this?" pace. I like to do about an hour/day and a few more on the weekends, we'll see where that gets me.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Dunno where in southern Vermont you are, but Rich Jones in Mt Holly is just finishing up a build - last in a line of many chronicled here.

    5 Years or so ago (I could be off on that) we had a VT WBF get-together in Montpelier - probably 10 people? Maybe later in the summer when we've all gotten shots we should do another one.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Dunno where in southern Vermont you are, but Rich Jones in Mt Holly is just finishing up a build - last in a line of many chronicled here.

    5 Years or so ago (I could be off on that) we had a VT WBF get-together in Montpelier - probably 10 people? Maybe later in the summer when we've all gotten shots we should do another one.

    Thanks Garrett. I'll try to track down Rich's build. I'd definitely be game for a meet-up, would be great to see first hand how all these pieces go together and what some other local builders are doing. I'll bring my stitch-n-glue driftboat, which looks like a Wooden Boat to the casual observer. Murder to row on flat water but that rarely stops me.

    I'm on the mass border, not far from North Adams MA.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by VT_Jeff View Post
    Thanks Garrett. I'll try to track down Rich's build. I'd definitely be game for a meet-up, would be great to see first hand how all these pieces go together and what some other local builders are doing. I'll bring my stitch-n-glue driftboat, which looks like a Wooden Boat to the casual observer. Murder to row on flat water but that rarely stops me.

    I'm on the mass border, not far from North Adams MA.
    So - Pownalish? Hard to get more south than that & still be in Varmint. I'm about 30 miles from the northern border.

    Our previous meeting was at a restaurant - so no boat show & tell - but lots of lie... oops... stories swapped!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    So - Pownalish? Hard to get more south than that & still be in Varmint. I'm about 30 miles from the northern border.

    Our previous meeting was at a restaurant - so no boat show & tell - but lots of lie... oops... stories swapped!
    Readsboro, literally overlooking the Deerfield. Trout season opens sat so we won't have to drive the extra minute over the mass border to fish!

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    So - Pownalish? Hard to get more south than that & still be in Varmint. I'm about 30 miles from the northern border.

    Our previous meeting was at a restaurant - so no boat show & tell - but lots of lie... oops... stories swapped!
    I'm smack in the middle of both of you, in central Vermont. A get-together at some point would be great.

    In most of my builds, I've used black cherry for the keel, which is readily available here in Vermont. A hard wood, but not too hard and plenty strong. All my boats are kept under cover when not in use, so rot from rainwater/bilge water is not a concern no matter what wood I use.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I'm smack in the middle of both of you, in central Vermont. A get-together at some point would be great.

    In most of my builds, I've used black cherry for the keel, which is readily available here in Vermont. A hard wood, but not too hard and plenty strong. All my boats are kept under cover when not in use, so rot from rainwater/bilge water is not a concern no matter what wood I use.
    Thanks Rich. I read your Lobster build thread yesterday, that was some incredibly fast planking, among other things! Boats looking great! And sorry to read about your bow-shed, that's a heartbreaker.

    I was planning on using cherry for the transom, I'm not sure of the differences between cherry and black cherry but I'll run it down.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by VT_Jeff View Post
    Thanks Rich. I read your Lobster build thread yesterday, that was some incredibly fast planking, among other things! Boats looking great! And sorry to read about your bow-shed, that's a heartbreaker.

    I was planning on using cherry for the transom, I'm not sure of the differences between cherry and black cherry but I'll run it down.
    The lumber yard I use calls it cherry. I've got lots of black cherry on my property, so I tend to call it that.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    The lumber yard I use calls it cherry. I've got lots of black cherry on my property, so I tend to call it that.
    Got it. I also have a fair amount of cherry and now you've got me thinking: Chainsaw, local sawmill, etc and I've got a VERY locally-sourced backbone, and no oak! I'm not at all sure I have a tree big or clear enough for that but it's an excuse to take a walk though the "forest".

    I found another thread on this same topic and someone else mentioned an Oughtred boat with an all-doug-fir backbone, providing yet more support for going that route.

    So, a few solid options I now have are:

    Doug Fir
    Locally bought Cherry
    Cherry off my yard
    White oak from my stash

    I suspect it will be october/november before saw goes to backbone wood so I've got ample time to source whatever I decide on. Plan is to start the jig/molds in September.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    I built a 12 foot Summer Breeze from free plans by David Beede.

    Different species than your boat.

    However, in 10 years of being dragged on beaches, kids diving out of her and climbing back in, being tied to a dock for weekends and getting banged and butted by big boats, no structural problems.

    The keel, stem, inwales, outwales are Doug Fir. I got it all out of a 16-foot long 2x 10 of VG stuff that weren't cheap, at least here.

    Kevin

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    I built a 12 foot Summer Breeze from free plans by David Beede.

    Different species than your boat.

    However, in 10 years of being dragged on beaches, kids diving out of her and climbing back in, being tied to a dock for weekends and getting banged and butted by big boats, no structural problems.

    The keel, stem, inwales, outwales are Doug Fir. I got it all out of a 16-foot long 2x 10 of VG stuff that weren't cheap, at least here.

    Kevin

    Kevin
    Great info Kevin, exactly the kind of real-world scenario I was wondering about.

    I'll try to run down your build. I got some 16' VG doug Fir from Boulter for the outwales on my driftboat, 1X6. Worked out great. Probably wasn't cheap either but my selective memory doesn't store info like that, luckily.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    You do not in fact have all that much time at all since it will need time to dry. You can shorten that time by sawing it into veneers which, being thinner, will dry sooner.

    Since you probably won't do the transom as veneers (you can veneer over Hydrotek though) you can steam the cherry for a few hours right after sawing it out. If you choose to do that cut it a couple or three or four feet too long since the ends will probably check, especially if it's sawn as flat grain. Personally, for what that's worth, I prefer the looks of vertical grain.

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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    You do not in fact have all that much time at all since it will need time to dry. You can shorten that time by sawing it into veneers which, being thinner, will dry sooner.

    Since you probably won't do the transom as veneers (you can veneer over Hydrotek though) you can steam the cherry for a few hours right after sawing it out. If you choose to do that cut it a couple or three or four feet too long since the ends will probably check, especially if it's sawn as flat grain. Personally, for what that's worth, I prefer the looks of vertical grain.
    Details detail details!

    Thanks Gib, great point!

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    You might want to check out KenStocker's thread "A Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay". He's been very thorough in discussing materials, techniques and his process.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    You might want to check out KenStocker's thread "A Tammie Norrie comes to Coos Bay". He's been very thorough in discussing materials, techniques and his process.
    Thanks so much Hugh!

    Ken's was the first build thread I read end-to-end on here, I even dropped a note in there a few weeks ago thanking him for the details. But when I read it, I was not wondering what materials to use for the backbone, and so did not appreciate the amount of info he dedicated to it. This is where some of that is, for reference: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...Coos-Bay/page2

    For the same reason, I'm re-reading large sections of Ian Oughtred's and John & Ruth Hills books over and over, each time with a different question in mind, and each time finding things I had seen before but had not registered before. I am definitely a context learner. No context, no learning.

    So thanks for pointing me back to that thread, I need to get my old ipad back in the game and flip through it regularly as new questions come up.

    I just spoke to Sue a local mill in Greenfield MA who has plenty of cherry but is far less excited about sawing and drying wood from my property. I get the sense she can be convinced though, we'll see.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Hi Jeff, thought I'd chime in here on what I used and why. I suspect all of us use what is available, whether it's' what we have on hand, or what we can access wherever we live. For me, I had those 5 pieces of 2x10 and 2x13 absolutely-can't-find-this-anywhere-straight-grained-fir. (All for $50 at a garage sale!)So I used that for the stem. I had thought to use oak for that, but there seems to be more of a problem with oak gluing well, or at least that precautions need to be taken. Frankly I just didn't want to bother, so the fir was an easy solution. As for the keelson, I used Port Orford Cedar for two reasons. #1, Port Orford is about 40 miles south of me, so very much a "local" source. And secondly, because I had zero experience with hand planes, etc., that I didn't want to be subject to planing something rock hard like oak. The POC planed like butter, steam bent to the transom like it wanted to go there, and was in general very much a pleasure to work with. Other than that, you also want to think ahead to how you're going to finish things. Do you want to finish it bright, and if so, how many different species do you want showing? Different wood shows off different colors. If you're painting, not an issue. In my case, the interior will be white, with the seats, knees, etc. finished bright mahogany for contrast. Even so, I'm still trying to decide if I want to use the remaining fir for the floors, or if that just adds too many notes. Anyway, that's the extent of my thinking.

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Thanks for the input Ken. Sounds like you made some well-thought out decisions and got a gimme or two with the Doug Fir falling into your lap. What a great find!

    I'd like the transom, keel and outer stem to be bright, all planks but sheerstrake off-white on outside, sheerstrake bright, inside will be all bright. I'm thinking of just an oil finish if I can get away with it. This would be a refined variation on the theme of my driftboat. The bright interior of this boat has some major areas that were just peanut-buttered together with a non-color-matching wood-flour/epoxy mix and for the life of me I can't get anyone to notice the flaws, people just see some bright wood and ooh and ahh and then look back down at their phone. So I know what I can get away with imperfection wise.

    20200322_171812.jpg

    Here's where I am right now: I know Doug fir will be a lot easier to work than Cherry but the Cherry is right down the street and if I use it for the whole backbone I think it will really look sharp. I'm going to use okume for all the planks, despite Ed's excellent advice on different species for different components. I've built 2 boats with it so far, it works well and gives my mind a chance to focus on other problems.

    I'm hoping to complete my skiff by July 4th, take a break from the shop for the summer and then begin in earnest in the fall on the TN. Here's the skiff.

    20210301_102840.jpg

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Desirable wood for stem/keel/etc for a Tammie Norrie

    Nice work Jeff, but I do see one problem. If you keep cranking out boats like this you are going to make the rest of us look like real slugs! It is addicting though, isn't it? If I were younger, I can see where it is hard to stop. As it is...well...if the grand-kids insist on building a boat of their own, Paka would feel obligated to lend a hand. Might have to move closer, retire, turn my whole life up-side down, but... (Tell me again how you define an addiction?)

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

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