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Thread: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    The defense will lean hard on George Floyd’s drug use and underlying medical conditions.

    But what if George Floyd had been Georgina Floyd, a frail 80 year old woman with diabetes and hypertension. Would we say it’s ok for Chauvin to press her into the street for nine and a half minutes? Would we say her heart stopped because of her diabetes and hypertension, or because of Chauvin crushing her?

    It doesn’t matter if Floyd was healthy or sick, sober or intoxicated. The law, police procedure, and Chauvin’s oath say he is required to “take care” of anyone he takes into custody. He failed to do that with Mr. Floyd, and killed him before our eyes.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    The defense will lean hard on George Floyd’s drug use and underlying medical conditions.
    It seems to me that much or all of that goes out the window once the cuffs are on. The question I keep wondering is "Why, after he as in cuffs and in the back of the squad car, was he taken back out, put on the ground, and then Chauvin kneels on his neck?" He was controlled. If they got him out because he lost consciousness in the car due to drugs (which it appears he did not), then why kneel on his neck to subdue him? It just does not add up.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    The testimony against Officer Thao just now sounds rather damning of him, too.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Would a harsh snow storm be too much to ask? I really like the times we agree, but I wish this wasn’t one of them...
    Cold rain's better than snow for keeping people at home, even wet snow at 31 degrees. Unfortunately it's too late in the year for really cold weather.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Cold rain's better than snow for keeping people at home, even wet snow at 31 degrees. Unfortunately it's too late in the year for really cold weather.
    That's what WE were saying a month ago!
    Rattling the teacups.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Listening in for a bit - the witness on the stand right now is a firefighter. Started by showing video of her calling out to the police officers to take Floyd's pulse - which they did not do. Identifying herself as a firefighter, a first responder (off-duty), and repeatedly demanding that they take a pulse, because Floyd looked unresponsive. Nada.

    Now giving testimony live, she goes through her extensive training in advanced first aid as a requirement of her state and national license as a firefighter, and observes that about 90% of the calls that she and her colleagues answer are medical calls rather than fire - because the fire stations are very numerous, and they offer support until paramedics arrive. She assesses and provides immediate medical support to individuals without a pulse on average 1-5 times in each of her shifts, because her fire station is in an area where there are many incidents of overdosing. So she literally sees unconscious individuals, without a pulse, every single work day. Usually more than one.

    She's now being asked to testify to what she observed respecting the officers and Floyd, as they go through footage from security video shot from across the street. Which shows her present, etc.

    This is just devastating. You don't want multiple video records of a trained first responder, highly experienced with assessing and resuscitating unconscious people without a pulse, if you're on trial for murdering a person in this way.

    Migod.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    She lost her temper in cross and then argued with the judge.

    I don't think the prosecution has done a good job of preparing the witnesses.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    She lost her temper in cross and then argued with the judge.

    I don't think the prosecution has done a good job of preparing the witnesses.
    Do you think this actually helped the defense?

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Do you think this actually helped the defense?
    I thought so, but commentators did not. She seems to have come off as an insulted professional. If so, that's good.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Three witnesses this morning. Finished up testimony of fire fighter who plead with the officers to take a pulse or let her do so. The clerk who sold cigarettes to Floyd and noticed the fake $20. Someone who came to the block for food, and videoed the first part of police response, where they pulled Floyd out of the car.

    All pretty dry and factual. No surprises. The defense team is depending heavily on Floyd being intoxicated.

    I really hope the prosecutors are convincing that the autopsy result says Floyd died because of intervention by police, and convince the jury that being intoxicated and even resisting arrest are not grounds for killing a suspect. Seems pretty clear to me.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    The body cam footage from one of the junior officers is playing now. It dams them all - all 4 officers. It starts with them entering the store, then going outside to arrest Floyd, and goes right through Floyd's death. Callus is the best way I can describe what I'm seeing.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    I was listening in a little, and had to turn it off. Migod.

    migod.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I was listening in a little, and had to turn it off. Migod.

    migod.
    They are now showing another body cam of the same thing. It is very hard to watch.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    I used to watch Cops sometimes. It is nothing like this!
    Will

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    The body cam footage is very difficult to watch. I agree worse than the civilians videos. It makes the “angry mob” look small and unthreatening. And it’s clear that Floyd was scared and panicked from the start.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Chauvin's comments on what I think was his own body cam after he was back in his patrol car and Floyd was dead make it clear he was completely unmoved by the death of a man in his custody. It was downright cavalier.

    And watching a new officer on just his 4th day on the job draw his weapon on Floyd was chilling.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    The body cam footage is very difficult to watch. I agree worse than the civilians videos. It makes the “angry mob” look small and unthreatening. And it’s clear that Floyd was scared and panicked from the start.
    Unfortunately Floyd knew exactly what was going to happen. Remember, those two knew each other...

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    I heard that a police person in that jurisdiction has never been convicted of murdering anyone.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I heard that a police person in that jurisdiction has never been convicted of murdering anyone.
    Incorrect. Mohammad Noor, one of the first Somali-American officers on the Minneapolis force, was recently convicted of 3rd degree murder for shooting Justine Damond, a woman who had called 911 to report a possible assault. He certainly deserved it - but Ms Damond was white (Australian, actually) and Noor is Somali. The irony is almost too much to bear.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 04-01-2021 at 07:25 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    I see Floyd practically DANCING in the store.
    Guy DANCING in a store waiting to buy ciggys .
    Can't have that.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    This morning, testimony from Mr. Floyd’s girlfriend. The prosecution brought her in order to introduce facts about his drug use. She is also testifying about her own use of opioids.

    This trial will apparently revolve around how he died, and presumably whether Chauvin and the other police officers followed approved police procedure.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    I keep wondering if I dropped a $20 that a store thought looked suspicious, would I be arrested or interviewed as a secondary victim? I don't see myself being arrested at all, not put in cuffs, and nobody kneeling on my neck. So, what's this all about?
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    This morning, testimony from Mr. Floyd’s girlfriend. The prosecution brought her in order to introduce facts about his drug use. She is also testifying about her own use of opioids.

    This trial will apparently revolve around how he died, and presumably whether Chauvin and the other police officers followed approved police procedure.
    And, as has been said before and will be said again, Mr. Floyd is not on trial.

    The defense is trying to bring this angle in to say that Mr. Floyd's drug use in some way made him less healthy and that's the reason he expired.

    But.

    Nobody would have survived the treatment that former officer Chauvin gave Floyd for that length of time. Once a suspect is in custody - remember, Mr. Floyd was already in handcuffs - that person's life is in the hands of the police. There was a duty of care there that was not lived up to in this situation.
    Last edited by Canoez; 04-01-2021 at 11:53 AM.
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  24. #59
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Two autopsies. three different medical examiners, all determined that George Floyd's death was a homicide. But the defense will attempt to argue that he actually died due to fentanyl. What else have they got?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    And, as has been said before and will be said again, Mr. Floyd is not on trial.

    The prosecution is trying to bring this angle in to say that Mr. Floyd's drug use in some way made him less healthy and that's the reason he expired.

    But.

    Nobody would have survived the treatment that former officer Chauvin gave Floyd for that length of time. Once a suspect is in custody - remember, Mr. Floyd was already in handcuffs - that person's life is in the hands of the police. There was a duty of care there that was not lived up to in this situation.
    I'm sure you meant 'the defense'.
    Rattling the teacups.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I'm sure you meant 'the defense'.
    You would be correct. My bad. Fixed.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Two autopsies. three different medical examiners, all determined that George Floyd's death was a homicide. But the defense will attempt to argue that he actually died due to fentanyl. What else have they got?
    Nothing. It was murder - straight up. You can't deprive an individual of air for that long. The length of time, the refusal to allow aid to be rendered, and the general indifference pretty much say it all.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Two autopsies. three different medical examiners, all determined that George Floyd's death was a homicide. But the defense will attempt to argue that he actually died due to fentanyl. What else have they got?
    My guess: The first words in the defense’s opening statement was about reasonable doubt. They’re going to try to make this so complex that the jury might disregard or improperly weigh some of the evidence. Or, to lead to a manslaughter conviction but no conviction on the murder charges.

    It doesn’t matter if Mr. Floyd was healthy or sick, high or sober. The cops have a duty of care. Mr. Floyd was high pretty often, given his girlfriend’s testimony. He didn’t die from drugs on many other days when he took drugs. He died when a cop kneeled on him.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    The defense is counting on the jurors being fans of cop shows.

    Procedure? Eff that! Shoot the bad guy.

    Just PROVE he was a bad guy, and it’s all good.

    Gunslingers are alive and well. Alive and well...

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    The testimony by the retired sergeant is that staying on Floyd's neck for that period of time is not consistent with training. He put Chauvin's behavior beyond what is allowed, thereby greatly undermining the defense's case.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    Though the defense cross-examination got him to say that the appropriate response depends on circumstances. Specifically, is there traffic, are people yelling at you. Etc. Prosecution didn’t press this very hard in re-direct.

    All the defense needs to do is to convince the jury that Floyd was resistant, that the scene was busy with traffic, that the crowd distracted them, so maximal force was required. Then, because Mr Floyd was high on drugs, the situation is a tragedy of Mr. Floyd’s making. A tragedy but not a murder. You can tell that the defense is laser-focused on this. He’s doing a good job as a lawyer.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    That was a gang execution.

    Those men murdered that man.

    We all saw it.

    We can pretend, or demand they pay.

    ETA: Letting those men off on some legal shenanigans will further erode any remaining faith in the system. It isn’t a question. It is a matter of record; from multiple angles. Murder.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    There is a difference between resistant and fearful. Floyd's ability to resist with hands cuffed behind is back is very limited.
    "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?" - Groucho Marx

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    At what point does "resisting arrest" become a valid act of self defense?

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Derek Chauvin trial livestream

    I have been watching this Trial and it is disturbing to say the least. Same as watching the OJ trial - yes, I'm that old. Why he was not put in the Police car question - he was put in the car forcibly and (even while being handcuffed) made it to the other side where he was dragged out of the car and put on the ground. This would have had a completely different ending if George Floyd had just driven off after he was approached by the Cup employees (twice) to come into the store. They had taken a photo of his car and it could have been followed up by the Police if so desired. Sad. Take Derek Chauvin out of this picture and George Floyd would still be alive. And all this over $20 - the 19 year old clerk who earlier that day turned down a similar $20 bill from George Floyd decided he would take this one knowing that a counterfeit bill would come out of his paycheck.
    Last edited by Wine47; 04-01-2021 at 07:51 PM.

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