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Thread: Scary Florida boat crash

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Regarding waterways speed limits: I've only seen limits to protect floating and alongshore property, not to protect the ecosystem. There are places that to protect drinking water do not allow motorized craft. Not a speed limit.

    From the mid '50s on I grew up next to an extensive wetland/marsh complete with meandering creek. Neat ecosystem given that the nine foot tide fall gave it great flushing. Whenever a fast outboard raced through, really enjoying the tight curves, I could observe the damage to the fiddler crab holes in the banks, the sliced jellies, and using my microscope I could study the osterized smaller critters.

    Speed limits have no positive effect on damage to marine invertebrates by props but the clear damage to the littoral ecosystems caused by vessel wakes should be regulated by making any channel where a shore is close (I don't know how close) to a channel a no wake, usually five or six knots, zone.
    You haven't been to the Norfolk Broads then, 136 miles of navigable waterway at 4mph through moorings , max 6mph elsewhere to protect nature. Just one small area of unlimited for water skiing and another area which is mudflats near the sea (Breydon water). Where although unlimited, you can be done for inconsiderate motoring that disturbs others. IE making a big wave that upsets their cup of tea..
    Just an amateur bodging away..

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    You haven't been to the Norfolk Broads then, 136 miles of navigable waterway at 4mph through moorings , max 6mph elsewhere to protect nature. Just one small area of unlimited for water skiing and another area which is mudflats near the sea (Breydon water). Where although unlimited, you can be done for inconsiderate motoring that disturbs others. IE making a big wave that upsets their cup of tea..
    Remember that you live in a civilized country: one that does things to look out for the welfare of its citizens.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    No in-water test, no instruction, silly test for the license in CT. Sign the check, buy the boat, turn the key No wonder these dimwits crash.
    You have to parallel park to get a drivers license, why not have to dock your spastic plastic to get a boating license?

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Googled up The Broads. Lovely.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    An outboard will go into self-induced death turns if the operator lets go of the engine's tiller or many steering wheel systems. Sometimes a stabile circling and sometimes all over the place. That's the reason for the kill switch lanyard, which too many find annoying.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Colregs rule
    COLREGS do not apply inland.

    Speed is not an issue in this case. The established speed limit on that waterway at that spot did not appear to be exceeded. Thousands of boats per week go past, year after year, at that speed, at that spot, and without incident. ( But...residents have a right to try and change that)



    The problem in this case was the loss of control of the boat: The operator jumped out or was thrown out. Why? We don't know.


    Kevin


    EDIT: Does anyone else find it interesting that no mention of the boat operator is mentioned in the report? No arrest. No statement. No hospitalization.


    Kevin
    Last edited by Breakaway; 03-01-2021 at 08:14 AM.
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  7. #42
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kbowen View Post
    A lot of this is related to the fact that boats don't have rear-view mirrors and people often have no interest in what happens behind them. I think massive waterfront development suffers the same way: everyone wants their piece and devil take the hindmost. It doesn't help that the US population has doubled in my lifetime. Add the soul-sickness that comes from excessive testosterone and money. But the thing that is uniquely a powerboat problem is that it's really a one-person activity: A powerboat only engages one person and there's nothing else to do but drink heavily and watch the shore go by, so people go close to shore. I sail out of Chicago and sailors will head 20+ miles out in the lake on an afternoon. By contrast, the powerboats blast up and down the lakefront looking at buildings or something. Unfortunately most of the shoreline is concrete and the reflected waves of the powerboat traffic cause chaotic seas for miles out in the lake.

    Ken


    Most of the sailboats I see are under power.
    By a large majority.

    I passed 25 or 30 yesterday, heading south with a nice 18 knot NE breeze. Only one boat was saililng: a little 22 footer, beat up and with dirty sails.

    Every other sailing vessel? Motoring

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  8. #43
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    Default Scary Florida boat crash

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  9. #44
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    Default Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    6 knts under bridges.
    4 knts no wake zone.


    See above: speed and wake are not always correlated.

    I can operate my boat at 4kts with no wake; 4kts with a big wake... and 30 kts with a small wake.
    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Sadly in my experience, courtesy and "go fast" boats rarely go together.
    That was hardly a “go fast boat”, and that statement is very prejudicial.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Most of the sailboats I see are under power.
    By a large majority.

    I passed 25 or 30 yesterday, heading south with a nice 18 knot NE breeze. Only one boat was saililng: a little 22 footer, beat up and with dirty sails.

    Every other sailing vessel? Motoring

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Interesting observation. I’ve witnessed the same. Plenty of days we’ve got a nice breeze from the right direction for a broad reach and the “New Jersey Navy” goes by with bare poles.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    I concluded the same thing, one of the reasons I have a powerboat to cruise and not a sailboat. Most of the sailboats I see are cruising under power, even with fair winds

    A friend took his sloop from Seattle to Glacier Bay. He was under power 80 percent of the time and 90 percent of the distance.

    Not all of us with powerboats "blast along hoping someone is watching." Not much blasting at hull speed
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    "COLREGS do not apply inland." [41]

    Dangerously wrong.

    Better check out https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf

  14. #49
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    Default Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    "COLREGS do not apply inland." [41]

    Dangerously wrong.

    Better check out https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf


    Those are not the COLREGS, Ian. Those are the Nav Rules, combining the US Inland and International Rules. The International rules mostly mirror COLREGS

    COLREGS apply outside the demarcation line. This is clear from a reading of any ( US) nautical chart.

    Example:






    Kevin




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    In COLREGS as published there are minor differences, such as sound signals when passing, but both International and Inland are "COLREGS". Foreign vessels must follow our Inland rules when inside the demarcation line and US vessels must follow the International rules outside. Generally both are published together and the rule numbers coincide. This has been the case for the last forty years. When I sat for my first ticket there were questions about Western Rivers and such that I've long forgotten.

  16. #51
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    In COLREGS as published there are minor differences, such as sound signals when passing, but both International and Inland are "COLREGS". Foreign vessels must follow our Inland rules when inside the demarcation line and US vessels must follow the International rules outside. Generally both are published together and the rule numbers coincide. This has been the case for the last forty years. When I sat for my first ticket there were questions about Western Rivers and such that I've long forgotten.


    No.

    You are incorrect, sir.

    From COLREGS



    https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=intlinland

    Inside the Demarcation Line, COLREGS does not apply.



    Kevin







    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    I think I see Kevin's point. The US Inland Rules, adopted by federal law, are our way to make our rules fit with the international convention, COLREGS. But they are the US Inland Rules, not the COLREGS International Rules. Hence the demarcation line. Rule 34 is a good example of the differences. Which is why they are usually published together in this country.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Most of the sailboats I see are under power.
    By a large majority.

    I passed 25 or 30 yesterday, heading south with a nice 18 knot NE breeze. Only one boat was saililng: a little 22 footer, beat up and with dirty sails.

    Every other sailing vessel? Motoring

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My observations are about the same but see many under power with a partial sail up, does this still give them right of way?

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    My observations are about the same but see many under power with a partial sail up, does this still give them right of way?
    As I understand it, if the engine is providing propulsion they are a sailboat under power and lose any rights entitled to a sailboat.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    My observations are about the same but see many under power with a partial sail up, does this still give them right of way?
    My understanding is, no, as soon as you turn on the engine you are a powered vessel. Even your lighting scheme changes.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    I think I see Kevin's point. The US Inland Rules, adopted by federal law, are our way to make our rules fit with the international convention, COLREGS. But they are the US Inland Rules, not the COLREGS International Rules. Hence the demarcation line. Rule 34 is a good example of the differences. Which is why they are usually published together in this country
    Yes, sir. That is my point. I am pleased that you concur. Your long experience as a mariner, shared here , carries much weight with Forumites new and old.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Rule 3 is interesting in that it defines only two forms of craft:

    (b) The term “power-driven vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery.
    (c) The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

    Human powered craft - rowboats, kayaks, canoes - are propelled by machinery, i.e. levers - arms to paddles or oars. They are subject to the Inland or International Rules depending on position. For human powered craft, no difference.

    Sailing vessels are sailing vessels only if powered by sail alone.

    When departing Lewis Bay or any other busy port, if I see a ferry or other heavy headed out, I get on VHF 13 to announce my intentions. Especially if I'm tacking out and filling up the channel, I'll ask if getting on the green side or red side works for them, I can stall out and stay out of the way, whatever. Point is, even as a sailing vessel and even though being overtaken, I'll do what I can to make life sane for a vessel constrained by her draft.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Scary Florida boat crash

    Quote Originally Posted by kbowen View Post
    A lot of this is related to the fact that boats don't have rear-view mirrors....
    I installed one in our boat if only to keep an eye out for yahoos who come up too close from aft at ridiculous speeds! It saved us from getting swept onto a ledge last summer by a big wake thrower. It was a neighbor, too, and when I flashed the finger he got all bent out of shape.

    Meanwhile the USCG is requiring kill switches to be worn now: https://uscgboating.org/recreational...L0fXKGHkIBcDWk
    “Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

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