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Thread: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

  1. #1
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    Default MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Many motorsailers seem to have the emphasis on the sailing part, at least when it comes to complexity of the rig. Phil Bolger and other put forward designs for simplified motorsailers using cat rigs including old-school technology like the dipping lugsail to adapt to the reality of most motorsailers, which is using the sails only for entertainment or when the conditions are right. So, just for fun, let's say I wanted to add an auxiliary sailing rig to a boat like George Buehler's Captain Eddie (without the fly bridge). What would be the simplest way to gain a sailing option for messing about and emergency use?

    Capt Eddy Profile.jpg
    Capt Eddy Lines.jpg
    Capt Eddy Interior.jpg
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    Matthew Long
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Capt Eddy has neither the form stability (picking up buoyancy as the leeward side of the hull is immerced) nor what I'll call gravity stability - low center of gravity and down in the keel a good righting arm - to carry any but nominal sail.

    She'd be well served by a short mast at the aft end of the house which could sport a gin pole and small riding sail. And I suppose you could fashion a low angle staysail from the top of the mast to the stem for very broad reach or downwind.

    That's about it.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Yes, you can't just slap a rig on any power or pulling boat and call it a sailboat. Some it'll work fine. Some it'll work sort. And some it'll be a disaster.

    For suitability questions, consult the designer... or a naval architect... or even a knowledgeable builder. In that order of preference.

    As a side note - back when 'motorsailors' were more common - the nomenclature would suggest how tilted toward power or sail the design was. A 50/50 motorsailor, then, would be a boat optimized for a balance of the two. And 80/20 design would be meant use motor more than sail.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Well, I don't think I ever suggested that you could "just slap a rig on any power or pulling boat and call it a sailboat." I described "an auxiliary sailing rig...for messing about and emergency use." Ian's suggestion of a riding sail on a mast just aft of the pilothouse and a small staysail are the usual way to do it and might be the best way. I was wondering if there are some examples or ideas out there of other ways to tackle the same objective. Perhaps a single dipping/standing lugsail or spritsail rig on a short mast forward...? And yes, this would be something like 80/20 motor/sail concept.
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    Matthew Long
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    Dreaming of a small cruiser from Atkin, Bolger, Buehler or Parker
    www.cluttonfred.info (I also like homebuilt airplanes!)

  5. #5
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Look at Buehler's sailing rigs in the troller yacht.

    I am intrigued with the idea of a junk rig sail assist for a power boat

    Elect a clown expect a circus

  6. #6
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by cluttonfred View Post
    Well, I don't think I ever suggested that you could "just slap a rig on any power or pulling boat and call it a sailboat." I described "an auxiliary sailing rig...for messing about and emergency use." Ian's suggestion of a riding sail on a mast just aft of the pilothouse and a small staysail are the usual way to do it and might be the best way. I was wondering if there are some examples or ideas out there of other ways to tackle the same objective. Perhaps a single dipping/standing lugsail or spritsail rig on a short mast forward...? And yes, this would be something like 80/20 motor/sail concept.
    Putting a rig on a boat with low stability is a good way of creating an emergency. :-)

    Even a short mast and a lugsail/spritsail could get a slender, low stability boat into serious trouble, unless it's in a place where the wind never comes up or changes suddenly.


    Last edited by Chris249; 02-19-2021 at 04:23 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    sailing dingy be yer best bet
    there are a lotta reasons one does not actually see boats like #5.
    Inshore boats get towing insurance, not aux rigs.
    Offshore boats do not evolve from Bolger designs

  8. #8
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Most sailboats these days are motor sailors, in that they motor as ell as they sail. If you must build a Behler design, build a sailing boat
    Last edited by Hwyl; 02-19-2021 at 09:07 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    If you must build a Behler design, build a sailing boat
    eh? even though he's best known for his ducks???

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    This Duck rounded Cape Horn

    Note the auxiliary sailing rig:

    Elect a clown expect a circus

  11. #11
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Don't the DDs have much greater displacement and beam than the Captain Eddy?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Don't the DDs have much greater displacement and beam than the Captain Eddy?
    and flare.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    This Duck rounded Cape Horn

    Note the auxiliary sailing rig:

    I actually like that.
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    My brother, Terry's, commercial fishing boat had a small steadying sail aft of the cabin.
    He used it to steady the boat when letting out baited longlines on one side of the boat and hauling in fish on another longline on the other side of the boat....at the same time.
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    A friend used to have a very narrow hulled round bilged 1920's launch that had an amidships steadying sail that was more of a roll dampener than a directional device. We only tried it once on a nearly windless day, just to see what it did.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    A friend used to have a very narrow hulled round bilged 1920's launch that had an amidships steadying sail that was more of a roll dampener than a directional device. We only tried it once on a nearly windless day, just to see what it did.
    It will have had a relatively heavy engine down in the bilge and a lot less top hamper as well.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    It will have had a relatively heavy engine down in the bilge and a lot less top hamper as well.
    Yes indeed it did.
    Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell and have them look forward to the journey.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    one that i like
    currently for sale in no cal

    maybe i could encourage joe, lee, ted, and jake to go in partners

    63F98629-C060-4A02-AAA3-6C70AA544084.jpg
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    one that i like
    currently for sale in no cal

    maybe i could encourage joe, lee, ted, and jake to go in partners
    And no link to the ad. That boat is beeyootiful! About 50 ft?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  20. #20
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    Default Re: MOTORsailer vs motorSAILER

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    joe, lee, ted, and jake
    a motley crew.

    i would be honored. i'll bring the canned beets.

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