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Thread: More Republican Party Fracturing

  1. #36
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    See... I told you a hero would emerge. Hugh could start a thread explaining how the fracturing is an illusion, and (we're all doomed?) or something.
    I bet he could connect it to Musk somehow!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #37
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    As you know, John, the 'faithful' won't see any evidence as it won't be reported in the media that they access. The senators will see it, if they even bother to listen, but, with their constituents not privy to any of the evidence, will the senators then be prepared to go against the belief of their constituents? Probably not. They're hardly a brave bunch.

    I expect the evidence will be damning. I worry that the senators will ignore it, again.
    That's probable. Likely a safe bet. My questions are based on how many watch the actual trial and MAYBE learn they've been lied to. It could begin an erosion of support, and once such an erosion begins, who knows where it ends?

    Things may look a lot different a year from now whether or not Trump is convicted.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    When you put it that way, I just can't decide.
    You don't have to. We just get to watch and see what happens.

    Stuff may come out we don't know about. It may or may not impact the outcome. Senators will mostly vote in what they perceive is their best interest at the time they vote.

    I'm just not sure that today we know what that will be in three weeks.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Another example --

    Hawaii GOP chair resigns after party tweets about QAnon

    A high-ranking official with the Hawaii Republican Party confirmed Monday that he resigned after posting a series of tweets about the QAnon conspiracy theory on the official party account, saying its adherents shouldn’t be mocked.

    “We should make it abundantly clear — the people who subscribed to the Q fiction, were largely motivated by a sincere and deep love for America. Patriotism and love of County (sic) should never be ridiculed,” said one of several tweets that Hawaii GOP vice chairman Edwin Boyette posted Saturday. The tweets have since been deleted from the party’s account.

    QAnon followers advocate a conspiracy theory rooted in the baseless belief that former President Donald Trump was fighting deep state enemies and a cabal of Satan-worshipping cannibals operating a child sex trafficking ring. Some QAnon believers were among the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6. Nicolas Ochs of Hawaii, a member of another right-wing extremist group, the Proud Boys, was among those arrested.

    “People who followed Q don’t deserve mockery,” said another tweet posted by Boyette.

    Hawaii Democratic Gov. David Ige rejected Boyette’s defense of QAnon followers.

    “I think it’s absurd to think that some of those conspiracy theories — and virtually every single one has been debunked as factually inaccurate and totally nonsense. So I don’t see how anyone can think that those who believe it that are really doing it because they’re patriotic,” Ige said.

    The Hawaii GOP Twitter account has a history of promoting the fringe element, including defending Ochs when he was a Republican candidate for state House last year, said Tyler Dos Santos-Tam, chairman of the state Democratic Party.

    “These conspiracies should be immediately rejected, but apparently there’s an audience for them, and it’s disappointing that the Hawaii GOP would cater to that audience,” Dos Santos-Tam said.

    Boyette oversaw communications as one of four vice chairs for the Hawaii GOP in a state dominated by Democrats. He submitted his resignation Sunday, he said in an email Monday to The Associated Press. He did not respond to follow-up questions.

    Hawaii Republican Party chairwoman Shirlene Ostrov took full responsibility for what she said were unauthorized tweets.

    “Our party believes in free speech, but it is a responsibility that each of us must carry in order to maintain a good and just society. Promoting content for the purpose of shock value does not help us to build a more perfect union, nor does it help a divided nation heal,” she said in statement.

    “Moving forward I will make sure the Hawaii GOP and its communications accurately reflect the values that we stand for as a country and as the Aloha State,” Ostrov said.

    Boyette took responsibility for the posts in his resignation letter to Ostrov, which he posted on Facebook.


    https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...9dd4571a8ef3e8
    David G
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Where is the bar set for mockery in Hawaii, I wonder.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  6. #41
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Yes, we need more wishcasting
    So... if all these examples I, and others, are mentioning are NOT signs of fracturing - what do you think they are? How do you see this playing out?
    David G
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Where is the bar set for mockery in Hawaii, I wonder.
    Pretty low, I think. They not only gave us "Magnum P.I." but they did a remake of "Magnum P.I."

    Tom
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Another development --

    McConnell calls Marjorie Taylor Greene a ‘cancer’ to GOP in stunning attack on pro-Trump outsider

    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell launched a blistering attack on Monday against a member of his own party, Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, over her history promoting conspiracy theories and violence against members of Congress.

    The far-right Republican congresswoman’s “loony lies” are a “cancer for the Republican party,” Mr McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said in a statement first shared with The Hill.

    “Somebody who’s suggested that perhaps no airplane hit the Pentagon on 9/11, that horrifying school shootings were pre-staged, and that the Clintons crashed JFK Jr’s airplane is not living in reality,” said Mr McConnell. “This has nothing to do with the challenges facing American families or the robust debates on substance that can strengthen our party.”


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1796113.html
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  9. #44
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    The last Republican to represent Hawaii in Congress left the party almost 3 years ago because of Trump
    https://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/...ause-of-trump/
    and so you are left with crazier, angrier, more bitter fringe loons. It’s repeating nationwide. Not fracturing, sloughing off the sane a few here a few there.
    In that view... how would you view #47?

    Is McConnell one of the sane few sloughing off from the R's? Or would that be Ms. Greene?
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  10. #45
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Spurred By The Capitol Riot, Thousands Of Republicans Drop Out Of GOP

    https://www.npr.org/2021/02/01/96224...9nUz4xgo8wAplw
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  11. #46
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    More than 11,000 Oregonians have left the Republican party since Election Day


    https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/...Lg3vcvzwhL46FM
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  12. #47
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    [QUOTE=David G;6381482]More than 11,000 Oregonians have left the Republican party since Election Day

    QUOTE]

    I was going to post that. Interesting that most have become unaffiliated, which means that if the Republicans start being sane again, they might go back. I wonder what the numbers are nationally and if this is why Mitch is speaking out.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    That's probable. Likely a safe bet. My questions are based on how many watch the actual trial and MAYBE learn they've been lied to. It could begin an erosion of support, and once such an erosion begins, who knows where it ends?

    Things may look a lot different a year from now whether or not Trump is convicted.
    Well, I have a bet running that Trump will be convicted but I'm worried that he might not. My optimistic bone is still hopeful though!
    Rick

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  14. #49
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    In that view... how would you view #47?

    Is McConnell one of the sane few sloughing off from the R's? Or would that be Ms. Greene?
    Hugh - I really suspect you've gotten aholt of the wrong end of the stick on this one...
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  15. #50
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Lifelong Republican Donor Quits GOP: 'Absolutely' Now The Party Of QAnon

    Lifelong Republican donor and activist Jacob Monty revealed this week he has quit the GOP and joined the Democratic Party, citing the deadly U.S. Capitol riot incited by former President Donald Trump as “a bridge too far for me.”

    “I’m out,” the immigration lawyer from Houston told Erin Burnett on Friday’s broadcast of CNN’s “OutFront.” (Watch the video above).

    Burnett asked Monty ― who voted for President Joe Biden in the 2020 election ― if the GOP was now more the party of the unhinged QAnon conspiracy theory than of conservatives like himself.

    “Absolutely,” he replied. “Trump owns the party and Trump has always loved the conspiracy theories and this is Trump’s party now.”


    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jacob...b6bde2f5bfa8e2

    Not really a watershed moment for the GOP. His donations are small and pretty evenly dispersed between democrats and republicans. Maybe before 2010 he donated more consistently to Republicans. He donated to Biden's campaign while he was still running for the nomination last February. The last time he donated to a GOP presidential candidate was McCain on 2008. He did support Cruz over Beto.

    Contributor Occupation Date Amount Recipient
    MONTY, JACOB MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77024
    MONTY PARTNERS 05-02-2013 $5,000 Olson, Pete (R)
    MONTY, JACOB M MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77055
    ATTORNEY 06-21-2007 $4,600 Giuliani, Rudolph W (R)
    MONTY, JACOB
    HOUSTON, TX 77076
    MONTY PARTNERS 10-18-2010 $4,200 Olson, Pete (R)
    MONTY, JACOB
    HOUSTON, TX 77084
    TEXAS MUTUAL INSURANCE CO. 09-30-2005 $4,000 Allen, George (R)
    MONTY, JACOB M MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77084
    MONTY PARTNERS L.L.P. 03-14-2008 $4,000 McCain, John (R)
    MONTY, JACOB
    HOUSTON, TX 77076
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    MONTY, JACOB
    HOUSTON, TX 77024
    MONTY RAMIREZ LAW 06-14-2018 $2,700 Escobar, Veronica (D)
    MONTY, JACOB M
    HOUSTON, TX 77084
    MONTY PARTNERS LLP 12-07-2007 $2,700 Cornyn, John (R)
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    HOUSTON, TX 77084
    ATTORNEY 02-20-2014 $2,600 Sessions, Pete (R)
    MONTY, JACOB M
    HOUSTON, TX 77076
    MONTY RAMIREZ LAW 06-21-2013 $2,600 Menendez, Robert (D)
    MONTY, JACOB M MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77024
    MONTY LAW FIRM 11-03-2011 $2,500 Dewhurst, David H (R)
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    MONTY, JACOB M
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    MONTY, JACOB M MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77084
    MONTY PARTNERS L.L.P. 05-12-2008 $2,300 McCain, John (R)
    MONTY, JACOB M MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77084
    MONTY PARTNERS L.L.P. 02-08-2008 $2,300 McCain, John (R)
    MONTY, JACOB M MR
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    ATTORNEY 07-16-2007 $2,300 Giuliani, Rudolph W (R)
    MONTY, JACOB M MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77055
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    MONTY, JACOB
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    MONTY, JACOB MR
    HOUSTON, TX 77076
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    MONTY, JACOB M
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    MONTY AND RAMIREZ, LLP 06-29-2011 $2,000 Maldonado, Abel (R)
    MONTY, JACOB
    HOUSTON, TX 77084
    TEXAS MUTUAL INSURANCE CO. 09-30-2005 $1,900 Allen, George (R)
    MONTY, JACOB
    HOUSTON, TX 77055
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    MONTY, JACOB
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    MONTY, JACOB
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    MONTY PARTNERS 03-24-2009 $1,500 Maverick PAC
    MONTY, JACOB M MR
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    MONTY & RAMIREZ LLP 05-02-2017 $1,500 Graham, Lindsey (R)
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    ATTORNEY 06-30-2003 $1,000 Bush, George W (R)
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    MONTY, JACOB M
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    MONTY, JACOB M MR
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    MONTY, JACOB M MR
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    We don't know yet the size of the 'sane few' relative to the Trumpistas and extremists, whether it's 1% or 50%. I work with a fair number of conservative Republicans, and none of them has any agreement with Qanon that they'll admit, and at least when they're talking to me, they say they think Marjorie Taylor Greene is nuts. Maybe they're adjusting things for my benefit, or more likely it's a non-representative sample. OTOH, none of them are switching parties, at least not yet. But we should be careful of adjusting numbers based on our hopes or fears. I wouldn't place any bets at all on which way the Republicans will go; whether they'll become entirely the Trumpista party of autocratic craziness, whether the adults will retake control and they'll move back toward ordinary conservatism, whether they'll split (and WTH will happen then??) or whether something else will happen.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 02-02-2021 at 11:38 AM.
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Not really a watershed moment for the GOP. His donations are small and pretty evenly dispersed between democrats and republicans. Maybe before 2010 he donated more consistently to Republicans. He donated to Biden's campaign while he was still running for the nomination last February. The last time he donated to a GOP presidential candidate was McCain on 2008. He did support Cruz over Beto.
    And now... he's declaring publicly that he will no longer donate to the R's. Nobody claimed 'watershed' level of consequence. But it's a change. Sounds like fracturing to me, no matter how you attempt to spin it.
    David G
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    We don't know yet the size of the 'sane few' relative to the Trumpistas and extremists, whether it's 1% or 50%. I work with a fair number of conservative Republicans, and none of them has any agreement with Qanon that they'll admit, and at least when they're talking to me, they say they think Marjorie Taylor Greene is nuts. Maybe they're adjusting things for my benefit, or more likely it's a non-representative sample. But we should be careful of adjusting numbers based on our hopes or fears. I wouldn't place any bets at all on which way the Republicans will go; whether they'll become entirely the Trumpista party of autocratic craziness, whether the adults will retake control and they'll move back toward ordinary conservatism, whether they'll split (and WTH will happen then??) or whether something else will happen.
    McConnell's rather lethargic remarks seem intended to try and retain the GOP he's operated within, and break with the utter nutbags in favour of the merely corrupt and cynical.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  19. #54
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    We don't know yet the size of the 'sane few' relative to the Trumpistas and extremists, whether it's 1% or 50%. I work with a fair number of conservative Republicans, and none of them has any agreement with Qanon that they'll admit, and at least when they're talking to me, they say they think Marjorie Taylor Greene is nuts. Maybe they're adjusting things for my benefit, or more likely it's a non-representative sample. But we should be careful of adjusting numbers based on our hopes or fears. I wouldn't place any bets at all on which way the Republicans will go; whether they'll become entirely the Trumpista party of autocratic craziness, whether the adults will retake control and they'll move back toward ordinary conservatism, whether they'll split (and WTH will happen then??) or whether something else will happen.

    I don't see most Republicans as Trumpista's. They are conservatives and supported Trump to the extent that he pushed for conservative government. Most wish he would have been less bombastic and reign in his Twitter rants. He picked a lot of fights that bothered them. There is a big difference between supporting Trump's more conservative actions, and supporting Trump. Even Ann Coulter (Who wrote "Trump: E Pluribus Awesome") bailed on him when he started talking about DACA because she is a hard liner when it comes to illegal immigration.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    And now... he's declaring publicly that he will no longer donate to the R's. Nobody claimed 'watershed' level of consequence. But it's a change. Sounds like fracturing to me, no matter how you attempt to spin it.
    MEH, no more a sign of fracturing than the tug of war going on inside the Democratic Party between the progressive's and the mainstream (AOC vs Pelosi). Very little actually changes in politics. In fact five-thrity-eight.com just posted an article saying that saying that Biden's win was not a blow-out and 2024 is not likely to one either ( https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-unlikely-too/ ) . Both sides are pretty entrenched and the outcomes are often decided by relatively small numbers. Both parties will be fine, and Biden or Harris will likely be elected in 2024 by a very small margin. The bigger factor will be the economy at the time of the election and if the Democrats lose control of the White House in 2024, it will more likely be because voters are angry because the economy is in the tank. I am not predicting the economy will tank but I am saying that if that were to happen then I could see the GOP taking back the White House.

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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    I don't see most Republicans as Trumpista's. They are conservatives and supported Trump to the extent that he pushed for conservative government. Most wish he would have been less bombastic and reign in his Twitter rants. He picked a lot of fights that bothered them. There is a big difference between supporting Trump's more conservative actions, and supporting Trump. Even Ann Coulter (Who wrote "Trump: E Pluribus Awesome") bailed on him when he started talking about DACA because she is a hard liner when it comes to illegal immigration.
    The party, in Congress and in the State houses, may not reflect the people who vote for them. But you'd need to make quite a different case to argue that the GOP members elected right now to the House and Senate aren't predominantly Trumpists. There's the occasional Liz Cheney, or Ben Sasse , or Mitt Romney - but the now dominant group is doing their very best to chase them out. To primary them, to intimidate them.

    If Republican voters don't want that, they're hiding it well.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    The party, in Congress and in the State houses, may not reflect the people who vote for them. But you'd need to make quite a different case to argue that the GOP members elected right now to the House and Senate aren't predominantly Trumpists. There's the occasional Liz Cheney, or Ben Sasse , or Mitt Romney - but the now dominant group is doing their very best to chase them out. To primary them, to intimidate them.

    If Republican voters don't want that, they're hiding it well.
    That's a good point. However they are, first and foremost, politicians. I am very cynical about all politicians (right and left). They are more wedded to reelection than their political stance or the common good. They will support whatever they believe will get them back in office at the next election or perhaps the better committee appointment. I don't trust anything they say as a true belief with the possible exception of Sheldon Whitehouse who is fanatical about climate change perhaps to his own political detriment and probably AOC who sticks to her guns even though Pelosi will destroy her (politically) at the first opportunity.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Another development --

    McConnell calls Marjorie Taylor Greene a ‘cancer’ to GOP in stunning attack on pro-Trump outsider

    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell launched a blistering attack on Monday against a member of his own party, Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, over her history promoting conspiracy theories and violence against members of Congress.

    The far-right Republican congresswoman’s “loony lies” are a “cancer for the Republican party,” Mr McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said in a statement first shared with The Hill.

    “Somebody who’s suggested that perhaps no airplane hit the Pentagon on 9/11, that horrifying school shootings were pre-staged, and that the Clintons crashed JFK Jr’s airplane is not living in reality,” said Mr McConnell. “This has nothing to do with the challenges facing American families or the robust debates on substance that can strengthen our party.”


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1796113.html
    But it’s ok when Donald did it, check.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Maybe this will bring the Republicans together.


    https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-ta...on-2650236315/

    House Democrats this week are going to oust QAnon-loving Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) off key committees in response to her past endorsements of violence against House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA).

    Politico reports that Democratic leadership will deliver House minority leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) an ultimatum to either remove Greene from committees or else watch her removed via a vote on the House floor.
    .
    .
    .
    Rep. Jahana Hayes (D-CT), whose district includes the Sandy Hook Elementary School where 20 children were massacred in 2012, tells Politico that Greene does not deserve to serve on the House Education Committee given how she has repeatedly made false claims about school shootings.

    She also said she supports efforts to strip her of her committee assignments.

    "If we are waiting for Kevin McCarthy to have a moral compass... that's never going to happen," she said.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    The party, in Congress and in the State houses, may not reflect the people who vote for them. But you'd need to make quite a different case to argue that the GOP members elected right now to the House and Senate aren't predominantly Trumpists. There's the occasional Liz Cheney, or Ben Sasse , or Mitt Romney - but the now dominant group is doing their very best to chase them out. To primary them, to intimidate them.

    If Republican voters don't want that, they're hiding it well.

    The GOP has only one hope, IMO, and that is too make a hard and abrupt break with Trump right now. Marginalize Trump, which means when he says something wacko, call him out on it, and when he says something along more normal conservative lines, ignore him. Across the board. That way, by the 2022 primaries, many of his base supporters will either fall into line or not pay much attention to the primaries. There can be no Rubios trying to walk a absurd tightrope of not pissing off Trump and his supporters and at the same time trying to move on. There can be no McCarthy's still playing to Trump and his base. They have to yank off the scap all at once and hope the wound heals.

    They won't do this, so the GOP is doomed, but that is its only chance.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Fracturing? I don't see it. If anything, it's being refined and purified.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    Fracturing? I don't see it. If anything, it's being refined and purified.
    There seem to be people who don't want to be consuming the new distilled version.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  28. #63
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    The GOP has only one hope, IMO, and that is too make a hard and abrupt break with Trump right now. Marginalize Trump, which means when he says something wacko, call him out on it, and when he says something along more normal conservative lines, ignore him. Across the board. That way, by the 2022 primaries, many of his base supporters will either fall into line or not pay much attention to the primaries. There can be no Rubios trying to walk a absurd tightrope of not pissing off Trump and his supporters and at the same time trying to move on. There can be no McCarthy's still playing to Trump and his base. They have to yank off the scap all at once and hope the wound heals.

    They won't do this, so the GOP is doomed, but that is its only chance.
    Well put.

    Fun watching them denounce each other, though.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    I agree, peb. Right through and including the final sentence.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  30. #65
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    #47.
    Rats jumping ship to save their asses.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    The lead on this NYT story is a local one for me. Fellow who was last elections R candidate for governor bails. Lifelong R. Changes his registration. This is not an example of 'fracturing'?

    An Emboldened Extremist Wing Flexes Its Power in a Leaderless G.O.P.

    Knute Buehler, who led Oregon’s Republican ticket as the candidate for governor in 2018, watched with growing alarm in recent weeks as Republicans around the nation challenged the reliability of the presidential election results.

    Then he watched the Jan. 6 siege at the United States Capitol in horror. And then, to his astonishment, Republican Party officials in his own state embraced the conspiracy theory that the attack was actually a left-wing “false flag” plot to frame Trump supporters.

    The night after his party’s leadership passed a formal resolution promoting the false flag theory, Mr. Buehler cracked open a local microbrew and filed to change his registration from Republican to independent. “It was very painful,” he said.

    His unhappy exit highlighted one facet of the upheaval now underway in the G.O.P.: It has become a leaderless party, with veterans like Mr. Buehler stepping away, luminaries like Senator Rob Portman of Ohio retiring, far-right extremists like Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia building a brand on a web of dangerous conspiracy theories, and pro-Trump Republicans at war with other conservatives who want to look beyond the former president to the future.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/u...sultPosition=1
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  32. #67
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Is THIS what someone meant when they said - not fracturing but consolidating?

    If so... what happens to all the people who won't go along as the party sets its feet solidly on the express down-escalator?

    It’s Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Party Now

    Steve King, the Republican former congressman from Iowa, must feel robbed. Two years ago, he was stripped of all his committee assignments after asking, in an interview with The New York Times, “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” The Republican Party threw its weight behind King’s primary challenger, and he was whisked off the national stage, no longer to embarrass colleagues who prefer that racist demagogy be performed with enough finesse to allow for plausible deniability.

    Since then, standards have changed. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, Republican of Georgia, is every bit as bigoted as King, and 10 times as unhinged. By now, you’ve surely heard her theory that California wildfires might have been caused by a space laser controlled by Jewish bankers. That wasn’t Greene’s first foray into anti-Semitism; in 2018 she shared a notorious white nationalist video in which a Holocaust denier claimed that “Zionist supremacists have schemed to promote immigration and miscegenation.”

    Recently, Greene met with a far-right British commentator, Katie Hopkins, who has described migrants as “cockroaches” and said she doesn’t care if they die. Greene told her, “I would love to trade you for some of our white people here that have no appreciation for our country.” She described the results of the 2018 midterms as “an Islamic invasion of our government.” Greene endorsed calls for the execution of prominent Democrats and agreed with Facebook posts claiming that the Parkland and Sandy Hook school shootings were hoaxes. She harassed one of the Parkland massacre’s young survivors.

    As it happens, this week House Republicans are seeking to punish a prominent woman in their ranks — but it’s not Greene. A big chunk of the House Republican caucus is reportedly trying to oust Liz Cheney of Wyoming from leadership because she voted to impeach Donald Trump for inciting the Jan. 6 insurrection.

    Kevin McCarthy, the Republican House leader, is meeting with Greene, but it’s far from clear that he’ll act against her, because she represents much of their party’s base. When The New Yorker’s Charles Bethea met a group of Greene’s local supporters last year, they were generally familiar with QAnon, and several agreed that Democrats are controlled by Satan. There’s a reason Kelly Loeffler, who needed to get out the pro-Trump vote, touted Greene’s endorsement when she was trying to hold on to her Georgia Senate seat.

    Some decent Republicans imagine they’re in a battle for their party’s soul. Representative Adam Kinzinger, who like Cheney voted to impeach Trump, recently started a PAC devoted to fighting the forces that led to Greene’s rise and the Capitol rampage. “The time has come to choose what kind of party we will be,” he said in an introductory video. The thing is, Republicans already have chosen.
    Just look at the party’s state affiliates. On Jan. 4, the Arizona G.O.P. retweeted a “Stop the Steal” activist who’d pronounced himself willing to “give my life” to overturn the election. Said the party’s official account: “He is. Are you?” An Arizona lawmaker has since introduced a bill that would let the Legislature, controlled by Republicans, override the presidential vote of the state’s increasingly Democratic citizenry.

    The Oregon Republican Party approved a resolution suggesting that the Capitol siege was a “false flag” attack. The Texas Republican Party has adopted the QAnon slogan “We are the storm” as its motto, though it insists there’s no connection. The chairman of Wyoming’s Republican Party, who attended Trump’s rally on Jan. 6, said he might be open to secession.

    Greene is not the outlier in this party. Kinzinger is....

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/o...sultPosition=1
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  33. #68
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    " The chairman of Wyoming’s Republican Party, who attended Trump’s rally on Jan. 6, said he might be open to secession."

    Do tell. Flying a kite to test the wind perhaps?

  34. #69
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    " The chairman of Wyoming’s Republican Party, who attended Trump’s rally on Jan. 6, said he might be open to secession."

    Do tell. Flying a kite to test the wind perhaps?
    Well... at least secession isn't anything like fracturing...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  35. #70
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    Default Re: More Republican Party Fracturing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Nope. It’s sloughing off the electables for the fringe. Boatbum will still support the crazies though. They lose 5-10%. The hardcore stay.
    I think you're just playing word games. How is separation by 'sloughing off' different in any relevant way from 'fracturing' off... or 'eroding' off... or 'repelling'... or...

    Is there some germane distinction that makes you so insistent upon that language?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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