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Thread: Building the CoPogy 18

  1. #281
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogsnight View Post
    Alex,
    Yes, I have DWL on profile drawing, but i would have to guess as to where exactly that line needs to be .......
    Lots of info on YouTube how to draw the line.
    I am looking for a dimension from stern and bow area down to DWL.
    What I plan to do is, when I have the hull upside down on the strongback again, level it up and measure from the lowest point on the hull (taken from the profile drawing) down to the DWL using a square, then use a laser level to mark the rest of the line from that point. As a secondary check, where that line ends up at the bow and transom should match the drawing reasonably well.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  2. #282
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Got it. Thank you Alex !
    "Little Bear" 1955 Fontana 18' - 1958 Atomic 4
    " Fela " 1985 Glen L15
    2016 kayak Mill Creek 13

  3. #283
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Finally got the centreboard case completed and glued in.

    Starboard side:


    Port side:


    This shot looks a little odd. It’s looking straight down, with the pivot pin in place to ensure that it was sliding freely when I did the final gluing of the case to the hull. Aft is at the top of the picture:


    And here is the SS L-bracket / stiffener arrangement at bulkhead D on the port side, next to the centre of the cabin. The cabin sole will go onto the tops of the cut down bulkhead and the fore-and-aft stiffeners. The sole will be about 3” above the hull at this point.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  4. #284
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Wow, looking so good Alex! Thanks for all the detailed descriptions and photos, this thread will be a treasure for those of us that want to follow in your footsteps (even if it's only in our dreams!).

    Cheers,
    Dale

  5. #285
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Thats built like the regular outback long-drop. I know I could wait and see but I need to know now - how are you going to attach the lid over that ss angle?

  6. #286
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by dsimonson View Post
    Wow, looking so good Alex! Thanks for all the detailed descriptions and photos, this thread will be a treasure for those of us that want to follow in your footsteps (even if it's only in our dreams!).

    Cheers,
    Dale
    Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so people might want to wait until the boat is afloat and sailing, to find out whether all these build techniques actually work!
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  7. #287
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Thats built like the regular outback long-drop.
    Andrew, could you translate "regular outback long-drop" from Aus into English for the rest of us who don't speak the language?


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    how are you going to attach the lid over that ss angle?
    Don't know. I can hardly wait to find out what I'll do!
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  8. #288
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    I’m guessing “outback long drop” is the equivalent of a brick **** house in North American English…
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  9. #289
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I’m guessing “outback long drop” is the equivalent of a brick **** house in North American English…
    Ah, yes - idioms, gotta love 'em.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  10. #290
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I’m guessing “outback long drop” is the equivalent of a brick **** house in North American English…
    you get the prize Chris, a free roll is on its way! Do you get a rush on toilet paper every time there’s a COVID scare? We do?????

    Alex, how about drill and tap? Carefully obviously. Should only req a couple. Where you drill into wood under angle just top it up with a syringe/epoxy. Just a thought to get your ideas fluids flowing.
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 06-16-2021 at 07:44 PM.

  11. #291
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Donald View Post
    Alex, how about drill and tap? Carefully obviously. Should only req a couple. Where you drill into wood under angle just top it up with a syringe/epoxy. Just a thought to get your ideas fluids flowing.
    Maybe. It will take a lot more staring at it and cogitating. Fortunately it's not something that needs an immediate solution.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  12. #292
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Been also working away at getting the actual centreboard laminated together.

    Here is the layer of ply laminations for one side, the full board shape:


    I pickled one side of the steel core in vinegar overnight, to remove the remaining mill scale and rust. Here is what it looked like when I removed the rags holding the vinegar and washed the steel off:


    It took a little more work with wire brush and awl as there were still some deeper very small pits that had bits of rust and scale in them. But I got to a place of diminishing returns for the effort so I neutralized the vinegar with baking soda and called it good enough.


    I don’t seem to have taken a picture of the process of gluing the first lamination set to the steel core. I located it and drilled a few small holes through the ply at critical points around the core then used finishing nails as locating pins. After I spread the glue on top of the steel, I lowered the board down and weighted the centre and clamped the edges. Turned out fine. After cleaning up the squeeze-out, I have commenced gluing the infill pieces that go between the edges of the steel and edges of the full board.

    Here you can see the glue-up of the wood strips I used for the curve of the board at the top end:
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  13. #293
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    With the boat in it, my shop is too small to do a lot of tasks that require handling big or long pieces. Included in that category is spar-building, which I have to build outside. I have hopes of being able to launch the boat next spring. If I left the spars until near the end, I would be building them in the late winter, early spring, when our weather is not reliable, i.e. we can get a lot of rain. I decided to pause the linear progress on hull-related work and build the spars over our summer, when we usually get long stretches of dry weather. Tad has produced the spar drawing and I have set to work.

    I am starting with the shortest and simplest and working up to the longer and more complex spars. First up is the bowsprit, which is about 5 ft long, solid and tapered.

    Here is the glued-up blank of Douglas Fir, with the first end cut to length.


    Here is the small end with the centre and diameter marked:


    Taper being cut with the hand power planer:


    Had to make a spar gauge to mark the sprit for going from 4 to 8 sided:


    8-sided:


    Final result, except for fine sanding and how the tip will accommodate the jib and bob stays. Picture is a little over-exposed:


    One down, 5 more to go, plus a sleeve/tube to house the bowsprit.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  14. #294
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    That's really exciting Alex! Spars are fun and they're easy to store while you're working on other stuff, but they add a significant level of advancement mentally. 'Course, I've always been a bit mental, so it doesn't take much

  15. #295
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    That's really exciting Alex! Spars are fun and they're easy to store while you're working on other stuff, but they add a significant level of advancement mentally. 'Course, I've always been a bit mental, so it doesn't take much
    I agree. One of the things with spar-building is that you get so much visible progress for the amount of time you put in. This sprit represents about 6 hours of work.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  16. #296
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    You’ve probably seen the joke somewhere on the internet “Big News! Man uses piece of wood for project that has been in his shop since 1987!

    That would be me, although the wood was only there since 2003. I had some offcuts of beautiful Douglas Fir from making the wide flat keel of my Kurylko Alaska back then. I just couldn’t bear to get rid of them figuring I’d find a use for them some day. Well, now they are the centre and two outside laminations of the solid mizzen boom:


    Here is the boom overall, about 4½ feet long:


    And here are the jaws, made from leftover sapele that I had, and glued and screwed on. Screws used mostly to locate the jaws and serve as clamps while the epoxy cured:


    Spar-building proceeds apace, except for breaks in the afternoon to escape the heat. It’s 35 – 40 Celsius in the city today, depending on where you are. Likely breaking another all-time temperature record as we also sit under the heat dome covering most of western North America.
    Last edited by AJZimm; 06-28-2021 at 08:46 AM.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  17. #297
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Going well, Alex. Those boom jaws look very businesslike.
    We're getting a blast from the Antarctic this week.
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

  18. #298
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Nice looking spars.
    I find spar building to be very relaxing and rewarding.
    In post #293, I see you using a miter box saw. I haven't seen one of those in many years since the advent of
    powered miter saws.
    I had one and must have made a million cuts with it in my remodeling career. Obsolete, I've now no idea of whatever became of it.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  19. #299
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by IanMilne View Post
    Going well, Alex. Those boom jaws look very businesslike.
    We're getting a blast from the Antarctic this week.
    Cheers,
    Ian
    Thanks Ian. I see this morning that in my final edit of the post before I hit the post button, I managed to delete this caption from the last picture: "And here are the jaws, made from leftover sapele that I had, and glued and screwed on. Screws used mostly to locate the jaws and serve as clamps while the epoxy cured." I've edited the post to add it back.

    The proportions are taken (mostly) from an article by William Garden in WoodenBoat issue #59. The spars and the jaws are all a little bigger than what looks right to my eye, but I am going to trust the designer, Tad Roberts, and William Garden, both true artists of line a proportion.

    Now, if you could send some of that Antarctic air our way, we'd be grateful. We learned yesterday that the hottest temperature in British Columbia over the weekend broke the record for the hottest in temperature in Canada, ever.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  20. #300
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Nice looking spars.
    I find spar building to be very relaxing and rewarding.
    In post #293, I see you using a miter box saw. I haven't seen one of those in many years since the advent of
    powered miter saws.
    I had one and must have made a million cuts with it in my remodeling career. Obsolete, I've now no idea of whatever became of it.
    I agree about spar building - something very satisfying.

    I've looked at the powered mitre box saws, both fixed and sliding, but have never quite got around to buying one. In part, I don't know where I would store it. The drawback to having a small shop, together with a proclivity for viewing boat-building as an excuse to acquire more tools. In the end, I find I don't make that many cuts that would use it and it's always nice not to have to fire up a power tool if you don't need to.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  21. #301
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    I’ve been busy the last little while building the main boom and the gaff. The main boom is also a square section, like the mizzen boom, but larger and longer of course. No different construction details so no pictures.

    The basic construction of the gaff is hollow birdsmouth, nothing too out of the ordinary there. It is, however, my first time building curved jaws for the gaff. For guidelines on shape and sizing, I looked to the details and commentary provided by William Garden in WB #49. Using his proportions, I sketched out a full-scale profile of what he recommended, given my mast size:


    I then made a mock-up of some cardboard to check that the moving parts all fit together:


    That done, I started thinking about how to make the curved jaws. I hand some sapele left over from the last boat. It was not thick enough to cut to the right curve and I judged it was too thick to heat bend. I figured I could slice it up into laminations and heat bend them and glue the lot back together.

    The jig I had made for the top of the stem turned out to be just about exactly the right angle for the jaws, so I called it close enough, rounded the corner and voila, I had my bending jig. Four (or maybe five) full kettles of water boiled and poured into the bucket where the laminations sat, with the heat held in on the top with some foil-backed bubble wrap, and in half an hour it was ready to be clamped down.


    The laminations pulled down nicely. After letting them cool overnight, there was some spring back when I released the clamps but not so much that it couldn’t be pulled back into place by hand. I figured that the cured epoxy would hold the curve just fine.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  22. #302
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    While waiting for the epoxy to cure on the two sets of laminations, I commenced measuring and cutting the slot at the throat end of the gaff. Garden’s design calls for a metal tongue that the gaff pivots around vertically and a hardwood tumbler that bears against the mast. This kind of detail is likely overkill for what is, after all, not a very big boat, but I liked the elegance of it and it didn’t seem difficult to make, just time consuming.

    I dithered over how I might set up various power tools to cut the slot for the tongue, which has a portion that is at a right angle to the end and a portion that is slanted. In the end, I did the job with careful measurement and careful use of the hand saw and chisel.







    I made a thin plywood template of the jaw and laid it out on the glued-up stack so that the line of the pivot bolts were at right angles to the cleaned-up stack. That made it simple to use the drill press to get the pivot bolts holes centered and square. Sometimes I am clever enough to get it right the first time.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  23. #303
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Cutting out the jaws, cleaning them up, drilling the screw holes all were straightforward but took a fair amount of time. The screws are mainly to help locate the jaws while gluing them onto the gaff. The tongue is made from a piece of ¾” wide 1/8” SS. The tumbler is more sapele.

    Here is the assembly temporarily dry fit before gluing. I see that in this shot I have the tumbler the wrong way around.


    And here is the assembly after being glued up. Temporary bolts only at this point. Jaws and tumbler will be leathered.


    And here is a shot of the whole gaff, that gives somewhat of a sense of the scale of the whole thing:



    Next task, mizzen mast.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  24. #304
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Very, very nice!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  25. #305
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Very, very nice!
    Thanks Rich! It was fun.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  26. #306
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    This might not look like it, but it is $400 worth of clear D. Fir waiting to be turned into hollow birdsmouth mizzen and main masts.


    Question to the collected wisdom and scar tissue on the forum. I am going to mount a VHF aerial at the top of the mizzen and am trying to think of a clever way of running the coaxial cable up the inside of the mast. The cable has to exit the mast below the top halyard sheave and I want it to exit above the partner at the bottom. The mast is just under 14’ long and the distance from the top to the partners will be about 12’. OD of the mast is 2 1/2” at the butt, tapering to 2” at the tip.

    Here are the three methods I have thought of so far:
    1. I have thought of gluing up the mast in two halves, then running the cable and having it hang out the exit holes, but that will make it difficult to actually round off the mast at those spots.
    2. I also have thought of gluing up the mast with exit holes pre-drilled and use the shop vac to dry to draw a lightweight thread through as an initial pull line, followed by something heavier, then the cable, but am worried that the light thread might get too hung up on epoxy squeeze-out on the inside.
    3. I have also considered making one of the exit holes larger than is needed and running a stiffer wire down, with a loop on the end, and try to hook it out at the other.

    I only get one shot at it and I don’t know which, if any, has the best chance of success. I can’t be the first to have done this. What have you done? What works?
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  27. #307
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    A very nice project! May i ask...



    what is the advantage of the steel arm over a shackle on a strop?

  28. #308
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    A very nice project! May i ask...

    what is the advantage of the steel arm over a shackle on a strop?

    Possibly none. This may perhaps allow for an easier way to apply luff tension on the throat cringle.

    Mostly it is kind of traditional and shippy-looking and it is a great detail from William Garden, whose work always impressed me.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  29. #309
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Add a piece of conduit inside the mast. Could be anything, just ought to be plastic and flexible. Then you can pass anything through it with ease. I suspect most plastic pipes wouldn't adhere to the epoxy very well, and you could probably remove it once the antenna wire is in place.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

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  30. #310
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    Add a piece of conduit inside the mast. Could be anything, just ought to be plastic and flexible. Then you can pass anything through it with ease. I suspect most plastic pipes wouldn't adhere to the epoxy very well, and you could probably remove it once the antenna wire is in place.
    Thanks Ben, I had actually considered that but didn't list it. The reason I had discarded the idea was that the liquid-tight ENT tubing that I had been considering has fittings that would be too big to fit inside the hollow part. But, now that I think some more about it, it might work if I just angled the conduit out at top and bottom and dispensed with the 90 degree fittings.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  31. #311
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by AJZimm View Post
    This might not look like it, but it is $400 worth of clear D. Fir waiting to be turned into hollow birdsmouth mizzen and main masts.


    Question to the collected wisdom and scar tissue on the forum. I am going to mount a VHF aerial at the top of the mizzen and am trying to think of a clever way of running the coaxial cable up the inside of the mast. The cable has to exit the mast below the top halyard sheave and I want it to exit above the partner at the bottom. The mast is just under 14’ long and the distance from the top to the partners will be about 12’. OD of the mast is 2 1/2” at the butt, tapering to 2” at the tip.

    Here are the three methods I have thought of so far:
    1. I have thought of gluing up the mast in two halves, then running the cable and having it hang out the exit holes, but that will make it difficult to actually round off the mast at those spots.
    2. I also have thought of gluing up the mast with exit holes pre-drilled and use the shop vac to dry to draw a lightweight thread through as an initial pull line, followed by something heavier, then the cable, but am worried that the light thread might get too hung up on epoxy squeeze-out on the inside.
    3. I have also considered making one of the exit holes larger than is needed and running a stiffer wire down, with a loop on the end, and try to hook it out at the other.

    I only get one shot at it and I don’t know which, if any, has the best chance of success. I can’t be the first to have done this. What have you done? What works?
    I've not tried running cable up a wood mast before, but you might see if you could glue in a length of clear tubing to act as a sleeve to run the co-ax up once the mast is done. Might also help to isolate moisture that could creep down the co-ax jacket.

  32. #312
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    I've not tried running cable up a wood mast before, but you might see if you could glue in a length of clear tubing to act as a sleeve to run the co-ax up once the mast is done. Might also help to isolate moisture that could creep down the co-ax jacket.
    That might work, as alternative to actual conduit.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

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    Default

    Would fish tape not work Alex? I would think you could feed it in one hole and grab the loop with pliers or a small hook at the other hole.

  34. #314
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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    Would fish tape not work Alex? I would think you could feed it in one hole and grab the loop with pliers or a small hook at the other hole.
    It might at that. I was concerned that it might get hung up, but perhaps if it was stiff enough it would be OK.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

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    Default Re: Building the CoPogy 18

    Maybe place a piece of cotton rope when you glue up the mast. Pull it through after clamping to wipe off internal epoxy drips.

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