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Thread: An Ilur in NZ

  1. #106
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Allow me to chime in here(unsolicited I know) on buying the kit. Wayne nailed my sentiments, almost word for word as I've told others. I figure I saved about a year, at my average pace, by buying the kit. I hate the word kit, as it implies that it's like a model airplane kit I assembled as a kid. Nothing could be further from the truth. The forms and planks are so critical that I knew I would be hard-pressed to make them as exact as the kit produced. Given those two salient facts, I am more than happy that I purchased the kit. (Tammie Norrie didn't come with the strongback, but that was fairly simple to get right.) All in all, I doubt you will be sorry if you go that direction. It allows you to get on with actually working on the boat, which is the general idea here, right? Just my two cents worth.

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  2. #107
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Ken that is great for me to hear as a kit producer. I agree with you about the word "kit". As I write this my machine is humming away cutting NC scarfs that have taken years to perfect and I am still tweaking. There is a great deal of craftsmanship that I put into my work, especially the completeness and customer service factor. But you are right, regardless of the kit, you are still very much needing to be a boatbuilder....the wood is bending differently and the problem solving is still there, thinking on your feet, and scratching your head. When I got into this business, I didn't want to make boats in a box. When people started saying, "That's a kit!?" with a puzzled look on their face at shows, I knew I was on the right track. The time saving is there, space saving too. The space saving is one reason started building kits. Most pro builders are building from precut parts, kits essentially.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  3. #108
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I must admit that using a kit would have saved me a lot of plywood and time, and some of the planks on Bella are just not very well shaped (though for some reason most people don't seem to see them). Because I was new to clinker boat building I made templates for every plank on the port side & then spent time dry fitting and tuning the template. A slow process and the timber (brace ply) I used for the templates was rubbish - but I actually enjoyed the process, IF you have the time.
    For anyone doing clinker for the first time I'd be tempted to advise them to try a kit if they can fund it.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I might add that I am no novice woodworker. In 2 days I will be 63. When I was first married, at 22, I hung a tarp on the doorway of our 2 bedroom house, and built a waterbed. Big stuff in those days, and I enjoyed the process very much. From there, I built several bookshelves, gun cabinets, etc. etc. My point is that I could have built from the plans, but I didn't want to do it. I very much appreciate the skill and work that goes into the production of a "kit". But the satisfaction of cutting gains, planing the keelson, learning the art of using epoxy, etc. has been more than satisfying in and of itself. (Sorry if I hijacked this thread, but I do appreciate the option of purchasing a kit that makes the build more of a possibility.)

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  5. #110
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hello again from Canada Wayne. I added the outer stem and false keel to my build today. I am building from plans and not from a kit or from templates so it is somewhat more daunting I think, for me anyway. Lots of room for errors. The picture of the gunwale at the transom is helpful in imagining how to successfully complete this detail. I posted a couple of pictures in the wooden boat building facebook group. Munroe
    Last edited by Munroe; 03-27-2021 at 08:52 PM.

  6. #111
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    As a beginner boat builder, I wouldn't have made it this far without a kit. Even with the kit it is challenging. And at 70 in 2 months, more time for sailing is important.

    Way to go Wayne. Working on the rub rail and gunnels is a tough job, which I am putting off until I can put my mind to it. I'm also waiting for warmer weather. I bought some cartridge's of system 3 gel magic to use specifically on the gunnels and the temp has to be above 50F. In the mean time I'll keep slowly plugging away at other parts.

  7. #112
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    No issues hijacking the thread.

    I'd agree with all the points above. A further thought after seeing Clint chime is is that if a kit had been offered by a locally based supplier I would likely have gone for that despite the higher cost.

    The expense of importing 14-odd sheets of cut ply from the nearest kit supplier in Australia made it uneconomical and didn't seem a good use of fossil fuels. Tyranny of distance is the phrase that's applied for much of our economic history here and seems to be getting more pertinent again.

    The shopping around for a CNC cutter and working with them came out well for me in the end, but in considering the time and legwork spent and uncertainty involved I can see the benefit in just paying the money for the ready-supplied kit from someone in the boatbuilding field.

    Gunwales have proceeded with the inside strip on the port side shaped and screw locations (to be filled with wooden plugs) decided on to avoid future hardware placement while providing decent aesthetics. Here's the starboard strip glued on - that's every clamp I own and I would still have liked a couple more.

    IMG-2536.jpg

    I'm hoping to have the gunwales finished before Easter as I'll be away thrashing the kayak.

  8. #113
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks very much Wayne, Kent, Clint, Neil, and David for all the perspective on the CNC cutting option. I appreciate you all taking the time to share your thoughts! I think I'm likely to go this way myself. Wayne, when you said you needed a reasonable timeline to vacate your garage, I saw my own situation. I'll be building some kind of tent structure in my back yard for hull assembly. I still can't quite believe that my wife happily consents to this idea, and I feel some strong self-imposed pressure to use the space for as little time as is reasonably possible.
    Also on cost, Wayne: based on the bids I've been getting from cabinet shops, the price you paid for that cutting is a screaming bargain. Around here it's estimates of one hour of CNC time per sheet at $75 - $100 per hour.

    James

  9. #114
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Congrats again on getting the rub rail and gunwales on Wayne! I’m still in a bit of a slump and things not working out. It’s better for me to go slow and wait until I can get my mojo back.

  10. #115
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks David.
    Good advice I try to go by is if something is feeling like a chore you are not in the mindset to get a good result so it's better to leave it and come back fresh later.
    I don't always follow it but it's always right in my experience.

  11. #116
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Wayne looks good and kudoes to David and Wayne for taking on a project like this. These are real wooden boats despite the "kit" label and it is a journey getting a boat built, ups and downs and lefts and rights. I miss boatbuilding, but take great pleasure in seeing all my customers working hard and succeeding. It has been a heck of a ride putting together these complete kits I send out...it is exciting to see it come together and frustrating too when materials costs begin to skyrocket like is happening right now. I just had a piece of hardware for a boat increase 300% on me!!!!

    My tip for today: Remember to seal end grain really well with epoxy!
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  12. #117
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks Clint.
    I'll be removing some material from the ply inner stem and enclosing the top and exposed sides above the gunwales with sapele to avoid an exposed end grain. It'll largely be covered on the sides by the bowsprit iron bracket but it'll make me feel better.

  13. #118
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Wayne, just a wee tip about gunwales and I suspect I may be too late for 1 side unless your photo was of a dry fit - sorry................

    You can "lighten" the apparent weight of the gunwale by planing off about 15-20% fore and aft. I start about 1.5 metres in from stern and stem and plane off about 10mm (off a gunwale that is 40mm tall) and that reduction is tapered from that 1.5m startpoint to the end. You may well have already done this. I can assure you the gunwale does not look tapered when its on the boat and people only notice it if you show them - but they will notice if it is not tapered. I am an ex-IT person so I have no idea why the human brain does this !! I wouldn't worry too much about end grain of the gunwales if you put enough varnish on - if the ends get bashed then the helm needs new specs!!

    Good Luck Neil

  14. #119
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi Neil, If i could interject on the gunwale taper and ask a question. The Ilur has a transom so would you still taper the stern? Also, is the taper only on the exterior "rub rail" or also on the interior gunwale? Last one, is the taper on the under "bottom" side of the rub rail or the top side? I think I saw a picture of an Ilur rub rail tapered on the under side of the rub rail only. It might have been John Hartman's posts.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Good point Neil.

    I did taper the outer rub rail only on the front end. I think the initial pics I posted are of the dry fit, pre-tapered.

    The strake narrows considerably toward the bow. I can't remember offhand how much I took off but it started from about 80cm out and thinned them down to match the proportions of the strake, without leaving it too thin. It was pretty chunky pre-taper.

    David, the material was removed from the bottom. I did one till it looked right, then clamped the other to it and brought it down to the same line.
    I'd noticed the tapering on John Hartman's build also and then also remembered it was staring me in the face on my cedar canoe hanging on the wall next to the ilur where the ash gunwales had the same treatment on the inner face! It made a huge difference on aesthetically on that pointy hull.

    Back to the ilur, the top strake is pretty broad at the stern so it looked better leaving the rub rail to finish its run at full width.

  16. #121
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Hi David, yes I have tapered at both stem and stern - on the underside whilst leaving the topside alone and carying a fair line from stem to sterm, but we should do what we are comfortable with and what looks right. It was just a suggestion I got from another boat builder. I also bevel the underside and round the topside of the gunwale as per Geoff Kerr interior fitouts. I do not shape or trim the inwale at all - but my inwales are generally hidden because I'm a huge fan of sidedecks and fit them on everything :-) !! Even just a little 100mm wide one like this on the Gannet - at my age a sidedeck is more comfortable than a gunwale when you need to weight to windward.......

    IMG_2147.jpg

  17. #122
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I've been doing smallish jobs to put off the chore of epoxy coating the interior.

    It'll have to be done at some point in the next month before temperatures start dropping and making multiple coats a day difficult.

    However, in the meantime, there's this:

    Putting a veneer of sapele on the uppermost piece of the stem. Much of the sides of this will be covered by the bowsprit iron bracket but it's still a big piece of ply on a boat where most of the rest has been successfully hidden.

    Before

    IMG-2593.jpg

    During
    IMG-2597.jpg

    Aftebr /> IMG-2598.jpg

    Once coated it should match the rest of the stem. The screws for the iron will go through the 8mm veneer and well into the ply on either side.

  18. #123
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    The centreboard case is getting tidied up. the cap was cut and trimmed flush with a router before being glued and screwed.

    IMG-2589.jpg

    IMG-2591.jpg

    IMG-2590.jpg



    I've also been test fitting some tackle for the tack downhaul. These will be mounted on some 8mm pieces of sapele as the blocks overhang the log at the forward end, leaving only the 9mm ply case to bite into.

    IMG-2605.jpg


    A template for the sizeable deck has been made.
    IMG-2595.jpg

    I've started experimenting on timber for the deck. More on that to come when there's something to show for it.

  19. #124
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Looking good Wayne. You are more than a few steps ahead of me and it is good to see what others are doing before I tackle the same job. Keep up the good work.

  20. #125
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    You’ve made a lot of progress Wayne and it all looks really good. My next big hurdle is the rubrail/gunwales. Yours looks perfect.

  21. #126
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks Monroe.
    David, I don’t know about perfect but I did try not to rush and take the time to measure twice, cut once etc. Not having enough timber for a second attempt helped focus the mind.

  22. #127
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Yes, it is a lot more stress when you only have that one piece of lumber and you only have one chance to get it right.
    Wayne, when you glued on the bungy cord cleats on the centerboard case, did you use the plan measurements. I tested out the measurements with the bungy cord and it didn’t keep the centerboard all the way “up” unless I pushed the forward end of the cleat 55mm further forward. Also, in order to stop the center board in the mid position i had to push the cleat 45mm further forward then the Centerboard pin slot.

  23. #128
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Change that from 55mm to 45mm further forward for the forward edge of the fore cleat.

  24. #129
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by davidladd View Post
    Change that from 55mm to 45mm further forward for the forward edge of the fore cleat.
    I did use the plan measurements for those David. Iím unable to test as the cradle is very low and the boat isnít high enough off the ground to get the CB in.
    thanks for the measurements. There could be some adjustments coming once sheís in the water. I can always add to the cleats or cut them off and remake.

  25. #130
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    I noticed on someone’s picture of an Ilur that they didn’t totally rely on the bungy to keep the CB fully up. They drilled through the top of the CB case and through the CB for a ball lock pin that would positively hold the CB “up”. Because I drilled through the stem and have a bow eye I can ratchet up the bow of my boat hanging from the rafters high enough for the CB to be fully down.

  26. #131
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Wayne, before you make the hole in the deck for he mast at the mast partner, have you read the manual about changing the mast rake angle by 1 degree further forward than what the plan calls for? I asked Vivier about how much that equates to in mm. For my boat with a balanced rig it moved the center of the hole 10/11mm further forward. I don’t know what that means for your rig.

  27. #132
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Thanks David. I had noticed that in the manual but it hadn't really connected in my mind until you mentioned it.
    That's quite a difference in distance for yours and I'm wondering if mine would be similar.
    I might check with Francois. I'm was thinking of leaving cutting definitive mast positions until I've got a mast pretty much done.

  28. #133
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Wayne, I would think yours would be similar, but I’m no expert. Vivier actually said to move the center of the mast hole 11mm forward, but I am going to shoot for 10. I’m already wondering how I’m going to figure out the actually hole size with mast and leather wrap, and just how to cut the hole. Even though I’m not nearly ready to do that work, my mind always thinks ahead several steps.

  29. #134
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    ha ha!, me too.

  30. #135
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    FEF8A0E9-20A5-4C45-A649-0C46A303891E.jpg
    you can see the significant difference in building from the kit and building the “classic” option. The ribs are almost all bent. Still need fitting.

  31. #136
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Old school, Munroe. She's looking great.

    Quite some difference all right.

  32. #137
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    In comparison to Munroe's very clean affair in his small space, here's the current state of my ilur, which has taken to collecting tools and offcuts. Only the nearby workbench is worse.

    Appalling boatbuilding practice...IMG-2624.jpg

  33. #138
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    hahaha - I clean up before taking a picture. It’s all about presentation.

  34. #139
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    Gosh you HAVE been busy Wayne.........................................lol

  35. #140
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    Default Re: An Ilur in NZ

    There's been progress on the deck.

    This is comprised of three roughsawn kauri boards, I'd picked up from my dealer when I got sapele at the beginning of the project.

    IMG-2582.jpg

    These were smoothed out using a thickness planer owned by the chap who cnc cut my boat. Great ongoing service there. It's the first time I've used one, having bodged my way through everything previously with a tablesaw and handplane. The boards, had some prominent sap pockets and knots along one edge but there was just enough timber to get the width for a four board deck, with just some small piece laminated onto the two shorter planks to make a consistent width.

    IMG-2583.jpg

    Almost the last of the sapele was used to add strips between the planks for visual effect and give a hard edge on the stern face. Hat tip to Christop of Ilur in PA with his striking cypress deck using the same concept.

    The two fore-most planks were laminated together off the boat and the rest glued on glued in situ to follow the camber of the gunwales. Tape prevented the deck sticking to the boat.

    IMG-2632.jpg


    IMG-2619.jpg

    The third plank requires some notches to fit around the foremost bulkhead.

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