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Thread: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

  1. #666
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    On the other hand - a gloss boot stripe in the same (or similar) colour as your antifoul will give you an easier surface to wipe surface scum from (from wind and waves at anchor) rather than have a crusty looking line of antifoul above the waterline where it dries out.
    Larks

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  2. #667
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Yep, that can look alright. I find the AF doesn't really go crusty these days but yes, gloss is easier to wipe down. I use a bluey green AF which doesn't show the scum so much too. Red AF does, black not so much but I don't like black on a boat, especially a wooden boat.
    Rick

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  3. #668
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    2 more cents from me....
    Raw water scoop.....jesus H ! don't even call it a SCOOP. It is a strainer !
    If one puts it on backwards, it becomes an actual scoop , which can drown the engine while sailing with the engine off.
    Unless you are motoring in a sea of plastic bags...omit it entirely.
    Having nothing there makes it easier to clear an obstruction from the inside.
    By n by, they get half clogged with anti fouling, barnacles get up behind them...effin things are ghastly
    oh....boot top schmoot top...graphics are for fugly boats.
    bruce

  4. #669
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Well, I have clear hose on my cockpit drains and I can see what floats up into them. I don't know how but there's always a pile of mangrove seeds and leaves in them. If I didn't have a strainer on the engine water intake, I reckon it'd have them in there too. So I think a strainer is a good idea in our area.
    Rick

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  5. #670
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    2 more cents from me....
    Raw water scoop.....jesus H ! don't even call it a SCOOP. It is a strainer !
    If one puts it on backwards, it becomes an actual scoop , which can drown the engine while sailing with the engine off.
    Unless you are motoring in a sea of plastic bags...omit it entirely.
    Having nothing there makes it easier to clear an obstruction from the inside.
    By n by, they get half clogged with anti fouling, barnacles get up behind them...effin things are ghastly
    oh....boot top schmoot top...graphics are for fugly boats.
    bruce
    I might have read it wrong Bruce - I read it that he is actually meaning some sort of stand alone scoop as opposed to a strainer (without a scoop) or strainer scoop arrangement that you’d mount with the opening facing aft for the engine intake.



    Larks

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  6. #671
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Yes, rear facing not a scoop - as in force feed.
    yes to hose clamps. I'll pick up a bunch of those T clamps. I need a few sizes. Must make a list.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  7. #672
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    The rear facing ones are still called a scoop but I guessed what you meant - leave it as it is and don’t force feed the engine raw water. Do you have a raw water intake strainer/strum box as well?
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
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    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  8. #673
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    So, the concern about piercing the sheathing was about removing an existing fitting and replacing it with a scoop-style fitting? If the old bronze fitting is still fine, I'd just leave it and put a plastic grate over it. Make up little epoxy plugs for the four screws. Those fittings with the grate fixed would be useless as you can't remove them when you antifoul. The plastic ones are cheap and easy to remove each time. If you get buildup in them, you can just bust out a bar or two and then replace them when antifouling.

    If you're worried about the existing skin fitting, replace it with a Trudesign one - they're really good fittings.
    Rick

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  9. #674
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    I have a truedesign fitting for the raw water - i think that's fine.

    I was considering placing a grill type cap over it - but i can't really see the point. I actually don't use the motor all that much - and the small risk of sucking in a plastic bag...... there's bigger fish to worry about.
    The skin fitting is almost dead horizontal - so stuff lodging in there for long isn't likely - and i have a strainer immediately inside for any small carp. I'm going to leave it as is.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  10. #675
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Didn't get very much done this weekend.
    Got the waterline taped off. About 10mm above the line i'd been nurturing ever since covering with glass. The tape gave me the opportunity to average out the bumps and movement - it looks perfectly fine.

    IMG_8141.jpg

    As you can see, my phone camera is being invaded by dust again. Those specs must be really tiny in real life. I gave the phone a good ol' blast of air when i opened it up.

    Anyway - small disaster that could have gone literally sideways horribly.
    Got a coat of antifoul on. Then, using a 20tn jack i was shifting the dunnage under the keel - to paint the missed spots - and the boat slipped. It dropped about 300mm and moved astern about 400.
    To lift the boat i applied the jack under the bow - so the forces were aft. In the past i've run a couple of ratchet straps to prevent the movement astern, but this time, being a bit too lax, i forewent that step.....
    I had all the upright legs in place and locked off. So the boat was secure - though 8tn falling even a 300mm could carry a bit of force - not inclined to trust that again.

    Lesson learnt.

    IMG_8142.jpg

    There's after the fall.

    Then i spent the rest of the day getting it back into position, 10mm at a time.
    Here she is resting again.

    IMG_8143.jpg

    And a final shot from Port for viewing pleasure.

    IMG_8144.jpg

    The wavey waterline it the two runs of tape I used for masking off.
    Nice the see the division of below and top - makes it feel more boat like.
    Last edited by gypsie; 06-07-2021 at 09:47 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  11. #676
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Bit of a contrast between your boat and the one next door!
    Rick

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  12. #677
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    The one on the right of you with the pallet covering the wheel looks more likely to float!

  13. #678
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Yeah, I don't know what that guy hopes to do with it. He's got a cat in the yard too. He's a big personality kind of fella, knows it all.
    that steel boat is rotten through. There is no hope in any universe that it will sail again.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  14. #679
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Things i didn't know; you can't operate a fridge compressor when its on its side.
    I always knew you had to leave your fridge for a while after moving it - but i always thought that was about the refrigerant, not the compressor having oil in it.

    I bought a fridge conversion kit - i went an expensive, non-chinese, Australia supported, unit to be sure of quality and support. The kit can be installed by anyone who is 'handy with tools', which i consider myself to be, with ease.
    I followed the instructions to the letter. I was more anxious about getting that installation right than almost anything else - you've only got one shot at hooking it up or you lose the refrigerant. (turns out this isn't totally true). So I was completely studious about the installation and read and reread the instructions many times.

    What the instructions fail to do is tell you not to mount the compressor on a bulkhead.
    They do tell you not to cut the copper tubing, and to back up the electrics with a fuse. They even tell you to not close the fridge door when the fridge isn't running to prevent mold - but not a single mention of orientation.
    Considering the critical nature of orientation (as it turns out), and the explicit instructions about the bleeding obvious elsewhere - and the fact that the kit is specifically for a boat, and bulkheads are prime places to mount almost everything in a boat - you'd expect it'd have a mention, no?

    Anyhooo - it appears i fried a compressor. Went through the whole troubleshooting process with the supplier and the compressor being fried was the only conclusion.
    So they sent me a new compressor.
    The system didn't get cold - so they sent out a tech, who identified the fly in the ointment.

    The supplier has cut me loose. Taking no responsibility for faults caused by the installation claiming i should have consulted a professional, in spite of the selling point being anyone "tool handy" can install, and my rigid adherence to the instructions.
    They did suggest a possible fix - the fine oil in the compressor may flow back down the system. (The compressor still works, its just not cooling - so the plates are probably blocked by oil). De-install and rig to allow a flow back.
    I've checked out the ACCC website and i'm pretty sure the supplier should be responsible. I'll try the fix first, but then it may be small claims court - time and time and frustration at wasted money.

    So much for buying Australian!
    I bet the cheap Chinese unit i passed over would have had correct instructions.

    Lessons learned; fridge compressors must be horizontal because they have oil in them, and buying Australian doesn't mean very much.
    Last edited by gypsie; 06-10-2021 at 01:52 AM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  15. #680
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    fridge on a boat.....
    dint see that coming ?

  16. #681
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    That’s a bit of a tough one Trev’, you are right that they don’t specify orientation or warn about it but they’ll likely fall back on the instructions showing the orientation of the compressor in pictures and the advice to "call us if you require more information or if you are in doubt about any aspect of the installation or operation of your refrigeration system.”

    When you say you “fried” it what do you mean? I see where you’ve said that it is running but not coming down to temp so I’m wondering why you think it’s fried - or was that what the tech’ said? I’m wondering what it means.

    And did you "fry" the replacement compressor as well by mounting it in the same spot and do you still have that? I’m not a fridgy but it may be worth a seperate thread with some more details to see what the collective knowledge base here can advise.

    I’ve dealt with the supplier before quite a bit and they’ve always been pretty good to deal with, I’m a bit surprised that they’d cut you loose without trying to come up with a solution.

    Meanwhile hopefully the option to remove and let the oil drain back might help.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  17. #682
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Do you have a rough idea of what cost the glassing and fairing exercise has come in at all up Trev’? Excluding painting?
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  18. #683
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Hey Larks, yep they said the line about being in doubt, thing is I followed the instructions so faithfully I didn't feel any doubt. I was anxious it might go pear shaped, but I couldn't pick anything I was doing wrong so felt positive about it.
    Fried; compressor #1, seems to be seized, I imagine running without oil.....
    second one I hardly ran. It didn't cool so I switched it off. It'll run when I put a current through it.

    we'll see.

    cost, I can give a very accurate breakdown if yer interested. I'm not at my computer at the mo but I have a detailed spreadsheet kept meticulously as a defence in case the head of finance did an audit.
    Without costs; 60ltrs epoxy plus 12 resin, about 85m of 450g biraxial cloth, 60 or 70m of peel ply, 20ltr of lightest fairing compound, maybe 8ltrs of the red one, next one up, for prepping the surface.
    probably in the $6k zone...
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  19. #684
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    You’ve done a magnificent job Trev, we’re glad you and boat survived the incident . Have you told your wife yet?

  20. #685
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Thanks Trev - every now and then I find myself toying with the idea of glassing the H28.......
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  21. #686
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    You wouldn't need to go quite as far as me? A lighter cloth which would require far less resin, no?
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  22. #687
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    I reckon so Trev', though maybe heavier around the deadwood. It’d really just be to give me some peace of mind - when the deadwood first dried out before I put it in a bath it really opened up and although it has closed up again in the bath I can’t help wondering about the integrity of the garboard seam. It must have had some problems at some stage before my time because it had a 6” wide glass strip running along the garboard seam when I first stripped the hull, I removed the glass cleaned up the seam and have caulked it properly........ but.........until it goes back in the drink I won’t really know.

    Glassing it now would resolve that “wondering" and a layer of glass at least below the waterline would help to stabilise the strip plank whenever it comes out if the water in the future, I’ve had a few glue lines open up and they’re no real problem to re-spline but again that bit of extra work now might just add a little peace if mind.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  23. #688
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Well, if it was my boat, I'd definitely glass it while it's as dry as it'll ever be. I'd use no less than the 450g that Trev used. Sheathing an old boat, that has no existing moisture or rot, ticks every box. The outlay is balanced by AF savings alone in less than a decade.
    Rick

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  24. #689
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Though I'm yet to drop mine back in, I'm feeling really good about having done it.

    being an admitted learner, I really wonder if just to the waterline can work long term. It feels like you need to stop all the woods from moving. At water level the moisture/humidity is high no matter what.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  25. #690
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    To me, the 'debate' below the waterline is beyond ridiculous. Opponents talk about letting the wood breathe, sheathing trapping moisture etc., when the boat is sitting in the water! But above the waterline, the debate makes more sense. But it really comes down to the integrity of the work undertaken. The hull must be dry, the planking must be tight and the deck and sides must be waterproof. Given that, there's really no debate but the concerns are real, nevertheless, because a lot of people have done lazy sheathing jobs that just don't work.

    There are really only two options. Either get the hull to a sound state (as you have done) and then sheathe it, or build a glass or ply and glass exoskeleton over a clapped out hull (Vaitses' method).
    Rick

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  26. #691
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Though I'm yet to drop mine back in, I'm feeling really good about having done it.

    being an admitted learner, I really wonder if just to the waterline can work long term. It feels like you need to stop all the woods from moving. At water level the moisture/humidity is high no matter what.
    The Huon pine is very dimensionally stable so doesn’t move much at all really. Above the waterline there hasn’t been any movement and none of the glue lines have opened up (other than one or two short lengths where the strip runs below the waterline due to the curve of the hull) - it’s in good shape and I can’t really see any reason why to won’t stay so long term.

    I suspect that where I’ve had some open up below the waterline has been because the long term saturation of the timber did cause some swelling and compression of the timber fibres so that when it has dried out for so long in my shed the strips have not quite come back to their original dimension, albeit we’re talking millimetres, pulling the glue joins apart.

    The deadwood is altogether another beasty and it did move quite a bit when it dried out (Tassie blue gum I think). Although it has come back in the bath, after reading up on the cellular structure of timber and potential long term damage to its elasticity that repeated drying out can do, I wonder about what damage I may have caused by letting it dry out is much before I first put it in a bath.
    Larks

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    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  27. #692
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Pulled my fridge kit out and hung up to drain the oil.
    No improvement.

    It is so bloody disappointing and frustrating. Such a waste of time and money. That was going to be my ticket to persuading the family to stay out for longer than a couple of days - that and a fresh water rinse from a new deck sprinkler (not shower - just a mild misty trickle).

    Took some time off work to get a bulk of work done. Its been raining the whole time!!! Aaargh!
    I did get the deck masked off for painting no-skid - it looks like the tape will hold in the wet - the masking i put on for the cabin sides is holding like the proverbial poo to blanket.
    And got a second coat of non-ablative AF on the bottom. Two coats from 4litres - i wonder how i'll go with the ablative. I usually only get a single coat from 4ltrs - but i've been using a heavier napped roller - i'll try the tighter (and smaller 150mm) roller and see.
    But i shouldn't get too far ahead - AF doesn't like to spend a lot of time out of water.

    Plenty of varnishing to keep me occupied...

    Replaced some hose clamps. Bunnings do 316 T-bolt style clamps - the smallest size they do just works for a 38mm fitting.

    If i get the deck painted its straight onto reinstalling fittings. If that ain't the home run - what is!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  28. #693
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Don't skimp on ablative AF. If it's put on too thin, it just doesn't work. Now that your boat is sheathed, you don't need to worry about worms and your AF will last from 18 months to 2 years, so there's a big saving there. Good idea to wipe the hull down, in the water, at least once a year just to get rid of any slime build-up.
    Rick

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  29. #694
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    I've got 12ltrs, Micron 2.
    i was expecting 3 coats on top of one non-ablative. looks like possibly 6 coats on two non. HEAPS!
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  30. #695
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    The manufacturers specify an actual thickness rather than number of coats. Two coats from a typical hairy roller will give you a thicker coat than three coats from a foam roller, for example. And yes, leave ablative AF application until right before you're ready to launch. It dries out, gets flaky and cracks up! I use just over 10 litres of Carboline 2000 (3000?) for two coats of AF on Masina, which is 38' so I reckon 12 litres will be well and truly more than enough for your Seabird.
    Rick

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  31. #696
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Took some time off work, heading to the reef with the boys for a few days this weekend as in great barrier. See it before it dies.

    so tok advantage of some days off to work on the boat, but its been raining since the Friday.

    got a few things done.

    asked off the deck for painting.
    IMG_8185.jpg

    And eventually got a coat on. In between showers, luckily the wind is blowing and it dries everything out very quickly - with the help of a wet vacuum cleaner.

    IMG_8193.jpg

    Its been a while since the aft deck looked like this;

    IMG_8192.jpg

    Thats just a temporary cover on the hatch. Should have put the teak one back in for the photo....
    Last edited by gypsie; 06-21-2021 at 04:50 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  32. #697
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Ran my cables for the nav lights through the new push and pull pits.

    Forward lights is the old fitting reused - no change there.
    Stern is a new light. made up a backing piece of timber from a random off cut on the wood pile. absolutely no idea what it is - hard wood of some description but the right size. Blackbutt at a guess.
    Put the stern sheets (?) back on for the picture.

    IMG_8188.jpg

    IMG_8189.jpg

    The deck will get one more coat, and then the hardware goes back on. I should get all that back on in a day - if i can persuade son #1 to help out.
    So at a coat a week on the bottom, i figured i should get going on the AF.

    And wow, what a difference. I got truely excited!

    IMG_8190.jpg
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  33. #698
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    And now that i look at that photo - toe rail to go on.
    Possibly jumped the gun on the AF - but worth the feeling of making progress.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  34. #699
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    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Glassing it now would resolve that “wondering" and a layer of glass at least below the waterline would help to stabilise the strip plank whenever it comes out if the water in the future, I’ve had a few glue lines open up and they’re no real problem to re-spline but again that bit of extra work now might just add a little peace if mind.
    I've been thinking about your quandry Larks.
    Seems to me, your boat won't be in a shed, and this dry, again for decades. Not only is this the best opportunity you'll possibly ever have, the boat is in prime condition for sheathing.

    On the flip side, she'll never be this dry again, so those cracks are probably a low risk.

    There's the expense which isn't to be sniffed at, but are there other reasons not to? A quick look at my spreadsheet - its more like $4k for the sheathing materials btw.

    If it were me, i would do it. inside a shed - what luxury!!!
    Let the deadwood dry out and dutchman it liberally.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    304

    Default Re: Fiberglass Sheathing a 1962 Carvel Hull

    Looking good, the end (ish) of the project is in sight! Regarding a step that maybe wasnt really needed at the moment: I say getting a sense of progress is well worth it! Theres no downside really, and the visual difference can really help inspire...
    Brian

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