Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 23
Results 71 to 85 of 85

Thread: Campion Apple 16 Build

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    3,887

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    The downside of water ballast is it's relatively low density as compared to something like lead. A cubic inch of water weighs .036lbs, an inch of lead .4lbs. You might do some measuring to see if there is enough space in your bilge for water, it is used successfully on some boats but they were designed around that idea.

    I went to school in Boston, I remember it as a great city and enjoying some limited sailing on the Charles.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    I'll update with other progress soon, but today I flipped the boat. I'll finish the outside now, then flip it back onto the trailer and finish the inside (all structural stuff is done, the inside just has to be sanded, epoxy coated, and painted). Part of the reason for doing that is that I'm pressed on time and I want the exterior paint to have plenty of time to cure before it hits the water, whereas I'm less worried about the interior paint (and, indeed, if I really run out of time I might launch it with just epoxy coating on the inside, as it's just going to be for a few days so the UV exposure will be minimal).

    I've seen lots of examples of flipping with friends, and some complicated examples of flipping using hoisting systems. I wanted to show my very much manual system, which takes little setup, essentially no equipment, and no friends! And, at least works with a boat as small (16') and light (not sure, but probably not more than 200ish pounds).

    First, I lifted each end and slid the sawhorse cradles out, setting it down on cardboard (not visible here). Then I put a bunch of cardboard and some extra bunk carpet that I had gotten to cover the 2x4s that will go on the sawhorses once it is flipped (replacing the cradles):



    Then, from the far side, I rolled it onto its side. The gunwales are quite strong, and the whole boat is stiff -- the cardboard is both so I could slide it back towards the garage wall (if my space was bigger, this wouldn't be necessary) and to not damage the gunwales. Pulling it back is easier if its resting on the bunk carpet than plain cardboard (based on my experience last time). Then, the trickiest part is moving around to the other side, from the rear. As long as it's well balanced, this is relatively straightforward (also, it can sort of lean against the shop wall). Safe enough I could stop to take a photo!



    Then down it goes onto cardboard, and the new sawhorses are put next to each end:



    Then I lift from the front (harder than the last time I flipped it!), sliding the sawhorse under with my foot or one arm. It can be pretty close to the bow at first, as once it is balances, it's easy to slide it aft.

    And finally repeat on the stern:



    Quick and easy -- including time to disassemble the old cradles and make the new carpet covered ones, it took an hour to do the whole flip.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    And, second post --

    most of what I was doing was just filleting random last things, epoxy coating the floors and gunwales (I was a tiny bit worried about wood movement on the floors and wanted to give the gunwales a little protection before flipping the boat).

    But, after putting a coat of epoxy on the gunwales, I realized that I realiy liked the way it looked. I had been planning on painting them, as I thought the separate types of wood, plus the plywood end grain in the middle, would look odd. But, based on how it looked, I think I am going to keep them bright (even the glue lines are kind of neat). And it's nice to have one part of a wooden boat be visible.



    The other thing I wanted to show was the centercase arrangement. I've seen a few different posts about centercases on Ilur's leaking, and while mine isn't done yet, so may well leak, I think the design is a really neat one and should make it _easier_ to prevent the kind of issue that seems to be cropping up -- that is, there being some small gap between the stringers at the bottom of the case and the keelson (which is supposed to be filled with epoxy, but may not be).

    On this boat, the designer has you cut a slot wide enough for the case to drop right through the hull (there are no stringers at the bottom). Once it is suspended at the right level, thickened epoxy is filleted around the joint on the inside, but what is neat is that on the outside, once you cut off the overlap:



    You are looking right at the joint -- and indeed, he calls for it to be sanded and glassed from the outside (and if you filleting didn't come through but there were gaps between, obviously those should be faired out before the glass goes on!):



    Obviously, this wider slot benefits from there being no keel structure that it is dropping through (there will be false keel parts running either side of the slot once the slot joint has been glassed), and glassing onto a solid wood keel might be a terrible idea, so it may not be an easily adapted idea, but it seems to be a rather clever one.

    (I don't want to do any disservice the Ilur's -- if it were a simpler build, it probably would have been the boat I built, and indeed I shamelessly stole the centerboard pin idea, where the centerboard drops in from above and there is no exterior hole through the side of the case).

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    A bit more progress -- 238 hours total into the project now.

    I first put some slightly thickened epoxy into the depressions that existed between the case and the hull (I had filled the gap from the top, so the thickened epoxy wasn't flush with the hull on the bottom). This was somewhat thin -- say, maple syrup consistency -- as I wanted it to sink down into any gaps that existed! And in _one_ place it did go down a bit, so I'm glad I did it pretty thin.



    Then I sanded it off, sanded down a little less than an inch to rough the inside, and _slightly_ rounded the corners, but did a bad job of the last. I should have run a router with a roundover along the edge, but alas... so when I went to put the glass tape on, there were places where it did not want to conform to the probably 1/8th radius. I more-or-less managed it, by a combination of putting peel ply over it and then taping on top to compress the whole thing down onto the corner:



    When this cured and I pulled it off (which came off fine, bless the peel ply), there were actually only a few very small air bubbles, and not on the top end grain near the joint. So, stupid mistake but should be okay (also, the false keel pieces, bedded in thickened epoxy, is going straight on top of that joint).

    Then I started shaping the skeg. The cardboard template was thin enough that it bent a little on the stock, so I need to trim it a little bit, but it's more-or-less the right shape (it's a pretty modest skeg -- and the designer said you can even shrink it or leave it off if you want faster tacking).



    Next, I started glassing the hull. The rear of the boat was ready, and so I ran one 48" width of the 6oz glass across:



    And, put epoxy into it. Still need to fill coat it. I did cut off the edge and pull the tape about 12 hours after (earlier would have been better, but timing is hard!).



    Finally, in preparing the bow to be glassed, I did _hopefully_ the last fairing of the stem / forefoot. It's hard to see until I sand it back, but it was looking pretty decent before I put this layer of fairing compound (i.e., epoxy, lots of glass bubbles and a tiny bit of silica), so it'll probably meet my pretty modest standards:



    Once the stem in done, glass can start up front, while I work on finishing up the centercase slot (which is blocking the middle two runs of glass).

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    You are making good progress. When are you planning to hit the water?

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    With oars only, hopefully in mid-June (we're going to be on a lake for a week, so it'd be nice to be able to bring it with!). And then, maybe I'll be able to make the spars, foils, rudder fittings, etc by the end of the summer? I'm having a sail made by Stuart at Dabbler Sails, and that is aimed at around August.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Well it is 36 degrees and snowing here, sure glad about the Silvertip Fast epoxy that cures to 35, as my unheated garage stays a little warmer than the outside world, but only by a few degrees!

    Going back in time a little: I glued the false keel pieces that run either side of the centercase slot. I didn't try to shape them to the hull, as that seemed difficult to do, and I wanted them a consistent thickness, but that meant I needed to bend them! Weights didn't do it, so I screwed some 2x4 pieces to the rafters to hold them down, which worked perfectly (I angled them slightly, so I was able to tap them to make them slightly tighter). As a side note, the floors have _really_ made the hull solid -- it didn't flex at all when I was standing on it to screw the 2x4s in, which made me feel pretty good! I filleted at the same time, which is a time saver!



    Then I glued the skeg on the rear (I tuned the bottom a bit more so that it fit well), held down with random weights, though mostly out of the way enough that I could fillet at the same time.



    Once that was cured, I planed the top (bottom?) of the skeg flat -- it was pretty flat to start, but since I had to change the shape a little to get it to fit this changed, and anyway, I wanted to get it right. The exact depth is flexible, per the designer -- from a max of ~70mm at the back all the way to having no skeg at all.




    Then I took the Wood Butcher (TM) to put chamfers on the false keel pieces. Used _carefully_, the angle grinder with a sanding disc (60 grit) is a very effective way to move wood away, but it certainly is nerve wracking (it could put a hole in the hull in about a fraction of a second). Slower, more careful options are available, but slow is not what I'm looking for! It does make an awful mess though.



    Then I glassed the bow portion -- one piece of glass on either side.



    You may be wondering why I am glassing in sections like this, rather than just running a single piece from bow to stern on either side. That would be easier, if I had flexibility in terms of time. I have at most about an hour at a time to work on this project, and you can't partly coat a single piece of glass and resume later -- so instead I've cut the glass into smaller pieces, which each individually takes an hour or less to coat. The last two look like this:



    (I've coated that one -- it took 65 minutes; haven't cut or coated the one on the other side yet).

    Slowly creeping up on painting the hull -- just one more piece of glass, then fill coating, fillets under the gunwales, and epoxy coating any of the remaining exposed wood.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Finished glassing the hull. This is the first time I've glassed something larger than a foil, and I learned a bit (I don't have any desire to have a "next" boat, but I can't help but knowing if I re-made this one, it would be better!) -- the initial wet out went well, but I think the fill coats (I did two) should have been thicker -- a couple places in the end looked a tiny bit thin (but I only noticed when putting on primer, so, oh well!) -- may have been able to just do one, as well (I did neat epoxy for the first one, and then slightly thickened with glass bubbles for the second).

    I then ran fillets along the joint with the gunwale; they cover about half the thickness, supporting the pretty wide top (which I'm assuming/hoping will make hiking out, when necessary, more comfortable!).



    I then sanded the whole thing, scraping the lines where the fiberglass sheets joined and bumped up (the carbide scraper is a wonderful tool! Going to get one with a curved blade for fillets...).




    If I was aiming for a better than 10ft finish, I would have faired those seems, sanded them again, etc, but I set out at the beginning of this build that I wanted to build a boat quickly that was very well built, and where possible, looked nice. Anywhere where more time could be spent on things that are almost entirely cosmetic, I skipped!

    Then, I put on two coats of primer. I'm using System 3's water based stuff, which I really like. It dries quickly, and humidity is essentially never an issue (it just gives you longer working time!), it doesn't stink, and the resulting finish, at least for me, looks great (the visible lines in the photo are actually the sections of paint -- I would do a section, then tip it, then move forward -- it dried fine -- the fiberglass seams are visible, but not at this distance!).




    Then, while waiting for the primer to get hard enough to sand, I started working on the keel band. I got 1/8" x 3/4" 316 stainless (the designer called for 2mm x 18mm, this was the closest I could get!). I spent a little while trying to source bronze, but gave up once I realized it would not only be more complicated but more expensive! I like the look better, but 316 should work very well, and who is looking at the keel anyway!

    It's been a long time since I've done any metal working (if you could call this metal working), and it was in other shops, so it was a bit of an experiment, but I was able to use an old vice I salvaged from somewhere (I think a metal working vice, as it has anvil-like bits -- screwing it into a table with washers and construction screws isn't ideal, but I don't have bolts and it worked) and a regular carpenters hammer to make the piece that goes along the front of the keel and up the stem a bit.



    It'll get screwed and (well-)bedded in 4200, so it doesn't have to be a _perfect_ fit, and this seemed to prove that I would be able to get by. I still have to make the two pieces that run along the centercase and the one that fits the skeg. In the meantime, the primer will dry and after sanding it I can start putting on paint.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Just a brief update -- after waiting a few days for the primer to cure, I sanded it down with 220 (not trying to particularly level, as I'm not putting on more, just giving the paint something to bite into) and put on 4 coats of Lopez Blue. I did them all within the no-sand recoat window (so each was put on roughly 4-12 hours after the last). It's certainly not the smoothest finish (the high gloss shows all!), but I knew that going in, and I'm happy with it. I got no runs and pretty minimal brush marks (if I had a way to get the humidity way up, probably could have done better, but at 35% ambient the little home humidifier wasn't doing much).



    I'll give it a week to fully cure and then screw / bed the keel band pieces on and then it'll get flipped (in the meantime, I need to build the trailer that is currently in the pile of boxes at the right in the above photo...)


  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,852

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Getting close now!

    And wow, that is a very plumb plumb bow.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  11. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Getting that shape came from some truly tortured plywood -- and the planks fit just incredibly in 4 sheets of plywood. Here's an excerpt (with the important details missing) from the plans:

    Screen Shot 2021-04-28 at 1.45.17 PM.jpg

    It's hard for me to imagine making better use of the medium!

    I'm pretty excited to see how it does in the water (plumb bow, overhanging transom...). From what I've read, I think it'll be as exciting as I want it to be (at some point it was handicap rated as better than a Wayfarer...), and the effort involved to build it is quite modest (I'm about 260hrs in... probably won't go that far above 300 in the end. With plenty of bumbles along the way!). That, plus being able to pile in ballast and/or a bunch of people -- well, I'm excited to see how it turns out.

  12. #82
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    I'll have an update about my (frustrating, but eventually successful) process of learning to drill 316 SS, but, in the meantime, I finally built the trailex SUT-500 trailer that had been sitting in boxes for a couple months.



    The process was, to put it mildly, very frustrating (and took 7 hours over several days!) -- for several reasons -- so if someone is planning on getting the same trailer, just keep this in mind!

    1. The electronics are now plug in LEDs, so no stripping, wiring, etc -- but the manual hasn't been updated. It took me way too long to realize that what I thought was a duplicate (as the tiny, hard to read photocopy that came with the lights said there may be duplicates of pieces) was actually an extension, because none of the wires were long enough to make it through the tube. It certainly was easier to just be able to plug stuff in, but it was confusing to figure out what parts went were, at least at first! I know some people eventually just replace this stuff with wireless lights, which I may do eventually...
    2. The photos themselves in the manual are pretty bad, B&W -- which, I guess maybe it costs more to print color, but you'd think the digital one on their website could be in color...
    3. They assemble (at least partly) and then disassemble the trailer -- but don't disassemble it quite entirely, so some parts aren't exactly how they show up in the manual. It's always possible to figure out, but just slows you down. And, in one case, they'd actually put one piece on in the wrong way and not taken it off (the bunk support), which confused me for a bit (as I spent a while trying to figure out what part was on wrong, and without clear photos...)
    4. One of the bolts sheared off in the middle when I torqued in to the specified 35-40lbs. I replaced all of it's companions with stainless ones/nuts, as it, along with a surprising amount of the random hardware seemed to be ordinary steel (the frame is aluminum, and the main "T-nuts" holding it together are galvanized, but plenty of the other stuff seems like it'll dissolve in salt water... but we'll see).
    5. Pretty minor, but I got a spare tire holder, and it needs to go on _before_ the skid plate / side lights, which I didn't realize (and the instructions for the rear lights similarly don't tell you that to install the rear roller you need bolts to the rear of it), so there was more disassembly and reassembly towards the end than would have been necessary if there were a few notes at the right place....

    In the end, the trailer is light and looks good, and people speak highly of it so I hope it works out well. The adjustment on the rollers and the bunks seems good (I had the rollers land under structural frames, and planning on having the bunks span the middle, below frames). I didn't opt to get their 12" tires, and instead got 12" aluminum radials that were on sale and barely more expensive (the only downside is now I have the little 8" ones that I don't need...).

    Now, back to boat stuff!

  13. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,852

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    I've heard those are nice trailers. I'm not sure of the rocker in the Apple 16 profile, but I know some folks don't like to trust a few rollers to support the keel. The other option would be running a wide plank along the centerline for the keel to rest on, fully supported for its entire length. For my boat, with a completely rockerless keel, that works well, with no need to worry about point loading.

    Ah, anyway, my trailer is so heavily sprung that, in the end, your roller set-up is probably less damaging to the boat than mine anyway. Lots of ways to do everything when it comes to boats. I'm looking forward to seeing yours fully rigged and sailing. I paid a lot of attention to the Apple 16 way back when I was looking at designs to build, but this might be the first one I've actually gotten to "see."

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  14. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I've heard those are nice trailers. I'm not sure of the rocker in the Apple 16 profile, but I know some folks don't like to trust a few rollers to support the keel. The other option would be running a wide plank along the centerline for the keel to rest on, fully supported for its entire length. For my boat, with a completely rockerless keel, that works well, with no need to worry about point loading.

    Ah, anyway, my trailer is so heavily sprung that, in the end, your roller set-up is probably less damaging to the boat than mine anyway. Lots of ways to do everything when it comes to boats. I'm looking forward to seeing yours fully rigged and sailing. I paid a lot of attention to the Apple 16 way back when I was looking at designs to build, but this might be the first one I've actually gotten to "see."

    Tom
    That's neat to hear! I have enjoyed reading your threads and stories -- from the early ones in the Bolger boat, to the various Phoenix III threads (made me seriously consider that boat, but I wanted something a bit bigger for the boat length -- though your comments that it was definitely a 1-2 person boat really helped!) to the recent stuff in the Alaska!

    I've thought about the keel plank -- I will have the extra weight capacity on the trailer to build something like that, and with the skeg I think the profile is reasonably flat, but I may see how it seems as is. I'm hoping that I can get some of the weight onto the bunks -- they are 4ft long, and can be positioned to support a really structurally strong part of the boat pretty low down (there are floors/frames every ~18", so they should be able to cross three).

    I guess I don't know how I'll assess this without seeing something start to go really wrong, but... we'll see

  15. #85
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Campion Apple 16 Build

    Minor update -- keel band is screwed and bedded in 4200 on the boat. It's painted underneath, so the main thing I wanted the 4200 for, aside from a little extra gripping power, was to ensure the screw holes wouldn't be moisture traps. I generally got decent squeeze out, but not perfect, but on the upside, the cleanup was pretty easy (as I didn't have tons of extra coming out).



    Getting the holes drilled, on the other hand, was a total nightmare.

    As I mentioned before, I had chosen stainless steel (316 specifically) because it was easy to get a hold of (I tried for a little bit to get bronze, didn't really want to get brass though I probably should have because for my purposes the differences wouldn't make a difference, and decided that stainless would be good). I've never drilled stainless, and only drilled metal once, about a decade ago -- and it was high carbon plate with a huge drill press and bits set up by someone else -- the only thing I had to do was feed enough fluid in and it just cut right through.

    With that experience, I thought that alignment would be key, drilling fluid important, and otherwise, things would go okay! But, I don't have a drill press, so I got one of the gimmicky attachments to a cordless drill and tried to use that a bit. I think the faux drill press made things worse as it probably introduced some wobble, and I also didn't have a centerpunch so the bits had a hard time getting started, and I was probably starting with too large a bit (aiming to get #6 screws through, so I think I ended up with 5/32"). Eventually a dropped the press, but by this time I'd probably somewhat dulled my bits (as while I had drilled a few holes, I was work hardening the steel a ton as I was doing it -- spinning little chips off at best, taking multiple minutes of grinding to get through the 1/8"). I also broke a bit!

    So I thought, hmmm. maybe I need better bits? So I ordered a few from McMaster -- cobalt to hopefully help, though to be honest I'm not sure how much better they were (I ended up cracking the tip off of one!). I also got a better countersink bit from them at the same time. Once those arrived, I started again -- working a little better, but still no centerpunch, so the bits were wandering around a little (I used, somewhat successfully, the broken bit as a punch for a few). After getting a centerpunch, things improved more, but still I had a lot of wandering rather than just chewing through.

    This was the point that I decided that the bit was too large and went down to a 1/8" (normal HSS bit that I had already). Finally, this worked -- it went right through. I was then able to widen the hole with the slightly bigger bit -- which was probably a bit dull by now, but didn't need to do much work.

    So the final set of (working) equipment was: cutting fluid, centerpunch, 1/8" bit, 5/32" bit, 3/8" countersink, and cordless drill.



    This was, throughout the whole process of this build so far, the hardest part! I think I now appreciate what people mean about certain metals being easier to machine! And I don't think I'll be using 316 in the future if I can avoid it


    Next step -- flipping the boat onto its trailer!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •