Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 56
Results 176 to 206 of 206

Thread: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

  1. #176
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Lake Norman,North Carolina and Cedarville, Michigan
    Posts
    299

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thank you for sharing that method. Very interesting.

  2. #177
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    vancouver, british columbia
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    You're welcome. The chapter on Hardware Bonding will tell you all you need to know about it.

  3. #178
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    vancouver, british columbia
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott de M View Post
    Turning our attention now to anchoring these or similar sail and oar and motor boats.... I guess I could dive on my anchor to check but our water is very cold (in a solid state on the surface at the moment)... so what do you think? Can you set an anchor (say a 9 lb Rocna or 16 lb Danforth) under oar power alone? Common big boat recommendations are "set anchor at about half of cruising speed engine rpm", or similar. I can row the CY at half hull speed but acceleration is slow, so can I generate enough force to set the anchor well? Or to to be double sure should I fire up the outboard and hit it hard?

    Scott
    You don't want to try that in a crowded anchorage, if at all.

    If you can afford to carry two anchors, here's one way to do it: Let's say you'll anchor in 20 - 30 feet. Attach 100' of line to the bigger of the two (a 17 lb Fisherman in my case)
    with a bit of chain and a swivel, and 50' to the smaller (8 lb Danforth in my case). Drop the bigger anchor and tie off the tripline (if you value your gear) and row back against it.
    The bitter end should be always secured inboard. Now drop the smaller one (secure the bitter end) and pull on the main rode until it sets. As Frank said, don't pull too hard until it's set or it will just skim across the bottom.

    Now secure the bitter end of the kedge (the smaller one) to the main rode with a rolling hitch* (I use a warpreeve which is a little fancier and I believe a better option). Don't tighten the rolling hitch so much that the main rode won't rotate within it - as the boat moves about in the night you want the main rode to rotate within that hitch. A bowline might work if you secure the tail end.

    Now drop the two overboard about 10 feet down and secure the line. The pull is shared by both anchors and the swing circle is reduced - especially helpful in crowded anchorages where swinging space is at a premium. I also carry a 200' hank and an extra 100' which could be added in deeper water.

    I've used this setup for a few years now with no problems. The wind can switch all it wants now.

    Here's a pic of the warpreeve - it's just two eyesplices - kind of acts as a prussik under pressure. You could add a kellet such as the small grapnel that doubles as a lead line but I haven't seen the need yet.

    WARPREEVE WITH KELLET.jpg

    *if a rolling hitch is used, make it around its own standing part, as in the photo (white line to the right)
    Last edited by darroch; 03-20-2019 at 05:59 PM. Reason: additional confusion

  4. #179
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thanks for the detailed write up Darroch. That warpreeve looks like a useful piece of kit.

  5. #180
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    vancouver, british columbia
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Google warpreeve and you'll find a more detailed description and slight variations for big boats but this method is simple and works.

    It does give you peace of mind to pull on those two anchors and not have them budge. Last year I misjudged the tide when I set the tripline and spent the late evening watching the 12-inch buoy slowly submerge. I thought for sure the fisherman would break out at high tide around 2:00 in the morning but it didn't - there was just a small sliver of crown showing at high tide but the anchor didn't budge. Just one less thing to worry about.

  6. #181
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    East Quogue,NY
    Posts
    22,152

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    If you can afford to carry two anchors, here's one way to do it: Let's say you'll anchor in 20 - 30 feet. Attach 100' of line to the bigger of the two (a 17 lb Fisherman in my case)
    with a bit of chain and a swivel, and 50' to the smaller (8 lb Danforth in my case). Drop the bigger anchor and tie off the tripline (if you value your gear) and row back against it.
    The bitter end should be always secured inboard. Now drop the smaller one (secure the bitter end) and pull on the main rode until it sets. As Frank said, don't pull too hard until it's set or it will just skim across the bottom.

    Now secure the bitter end of the kedge (the smaller one) to the main rode with a rolling hitch* (I use a warpreeve which is a little fancier and I believe a better option). Don't tighten the rolling hitch so much that the main rode won't rotate within it - as the boat moves about in the night you want the main rode to rotate within that hitch. A bowline might work if you secure the tail end.

    Now drop the two overboard about 10 feet down and secure the line. The pull is shared by both anchors and the swing circle is reduced - especially helpful in crowded anchorages where swinging space is at a premium. I also carry a 200' hank and an extra 100' which could be added in deeper water.

    I've used this setup for a few years now with no problems. The wind can switch all it wants now.

    Here's a pic of the warpreeve - it's just two eyesplices - kind of acts as a prussik under pressure. You could add a kellet such as the small grapnel that doubles as a lead line but I haven't seen the need yet.
    Hey, Darroch,

    I know this as a, "Bahamian Moor, " and it works as described for minimizing swing and holds through current and wind shifts.
    Question: Why belay the smaller anchor's rode to the other? I've always just secured both rodes on deck to the same cleat, or to cleats or bitts beside each other on the bow.

    Thanks

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  7. #182
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    vancouver, british columbia
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Kevin - Can we call it a Bahamian Moor with a twist? The article I mentioned where I found the idea in the first place goes into some pretty extensive explanations of various ways of keeping a big sailboat in place. In fact, in their system the kedge is led through the eyesplice (reinforced) up to a cleat on deck, as you do, allowing for adjustment of both rodes.
    The problem I was trying to solve was allowing the boat to swing at anchor. If the two rodes are made fast to a cleat or bitt on deck the boat won't be allowed to rotate and the lines will entangle themselves without someone tending to them when the wind switches. For a long time I simply belayed the fisherman forward and the danforth aft but then you're butting up against wind and waves.

  8. #183
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    vancouver, british columbia
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Two Anchors Done Right is the name of the article. Here is their DIY warpreeve.

    warpreeve.jpg
    Last edited by darroch; 03-24-2019 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Lake Norman,North Carolina and Cedarville, Michigan
    Posts
    299

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Bump.
    Thorne is it too early to ask for an update to see what changes you have elected to make? Fall is upon us and it is a good time to start getting the winter projects list ready...
    Did you get enough time on the water to work out your rigging questions? I'd like to see what you decided about helping to center the aft end of the boat for trailering? Finally, did you rig up the sleeping platform? Inquiring minds need to know.

  10. #185
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Belmont, VT , USA
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Going thru this again...and looking for an issue I want to solve this year w/ my CY. When motoring along with no wind I like to drop the lug rig. The issue is that the boom, yard and sail are quite a load and it is a bit of a chore to store it out of the way with a few people on board. I think I am looking for a "topping lift" ? Do I have that right and any pics or diagrams how that would work on a CY?
    Thanks -Dan-

  11. #186
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,194

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I have a balanced lug on my "Autumn Leaves" from CLC. I rigged lazyjacks that allow me to position the yards and sail as high or low over the boat as I like. In combination with the downhaul, I can also adjust the angle of the bundle. The two parts, port and starboard, run through a double block at the masthead, and then are reduced to a single line that runs down the mast. Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

    2020 - Lake Ontario - web.jpg
    -Dave

  12. #187
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Belmont, VT , USA
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Mostly.. do want to hang the yard, boom and sail out of the way like that. Can't see how all those lines above the "bundle" would work though. That triangle line is attached to the yard or boom?

  13. #188
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,194

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    There are two triangles, one on each side of the boom. The starboard one gets pulled out of line somewhat because it wraps around the mast. So the routine to douse sail is this: 1: Ease the mainsheet a bit. 2: Take up on the lazyjacks. 3: Release and pay out the halyard. (The lazyjacks will collect the sail and the weight of the yard will bring it all together, resting on top of the boom.) 4: Adjust lazyjacks and downhaul as needed to get the height and angle of the collected spars where you want them. 5: Take up slack in mainsheet to hold boom on center. It's quicker and easier than a five-point list makes it sound.

    I made a cockpit tent for this boat, and having the boom up as shown both makes room for the tent and helps support it.
    -Dave

  14. #189
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Belmont, VT , USA
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    OK I think I got the idea now. didn't understand that you take the whole set down, bundle it and then attach lines which hold it up. Makes sense....now to do a search on " Lazyjacks" -Dan-

  15. #190
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,885

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmq400 View Post
    OK I think I got the idea now. didn't understand that you take the whole set down, bundle it and then attach lines which hold it up. Makes sense....now to do a search on " Lazyjacks" -Dan-
    Hmm... I'm not sure you understood it quite yet. Lazyjacks (those triangles) are permanent lines that stay rigged to the sail. While sailing, you slack them off a bit so they are not pulling up on the boom. But when you lower the sail, you tighten the lazyjacks first. Then the boom is held up, even as the sail comes down. And the triangle lines catch the sail and help hold it in place along the boom.

    So, you don't "take the whole set down" first, and attach lines later. You simply tighten the lazyjacks so they are fully supporting the boom, and lower the sail into the lazyjacks, which hold it. Very little adjusting to do once you've got them set up properly.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  16. #191
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    2,992

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Hmm... I'm not sure you understood it quite yet. Lazyjacks (those triangles) are permanent lines that stay rigged to the sail. While sailing, you slack them off a bit so they are not pulling up on the boom. But when you lower the sail, you tighten the lazyjacks first. Then the boom is held up, even as the sail comes down. And the triangle lines catch the sail and help hold it in place along the boom.

    So, you don't "take the whole set down" first, and attach lines later. You simply tighten the lazyjacks so they are fully supporting the boom, and lower the sail into the lazyjacks, which hold it. Very little adjusting to do once you've got them set up properly.

    Tom
    I'm going to amend your great explanation, Tom. I'd point out that the LazyJack lines aren't attached to the sail, but to the boom. The sail flows freely between them. Minor point, but I wanted to clarify for Dan.

  17. #192
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,885

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    I'm going to amend your great explanation, Tom. I'd point out that the LazyJack lines aren't attached to the sail, but to the boom. The sail flows freely between them. Minor point, but I wanted to clarify for Dan.
    Yes, thanks for pointing that out. The lazyjacks attach to the boom, not the sail, and catch the sail as it's lowered.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  18. #193
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Belmont, VT , USA
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    OK, Got the lazyjacks and how they are used.....thanks. Any CY owners bothering with them? Might they be a bit overkill? - Dan-

  19. #194
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,194

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    By the way -- my boat is deceptive in it's styling. It's actually the same length as a Caledonia, give or take a few inches, and carries just 16 square feet more of sail. And I couldn't see living without the lazy jacks.
    -Dave

  20. #195
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,885

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    On the lazyjacks issue--I would guess that sailors who often strike the rig and unstep the mast to row might be less inclined to set up lazyjacks. Typical mainsail size is around 100 sq ft or less for these kinds of boats. My own boat uses an 85 sq ft lugsail and I don't see much need for lazyjacks. But if you don't need to drop the mast, I suspect the convenience of lazyjacks far outweighs the effort to set them up. The Welsford Scamp design uses lazyjacks--again, that's a boat where dropping the mast isn't often done.

    In other words, are lazyjacks "overkill"? Depends... Do you intend to drop the mast regularly? Then maybe so. Do you intend to leave the mast up? Then probably not.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  21. #196
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Belmont, VT , USA
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    hmmmm... OK, hoping for some CY owners to step in how they deal with it. And no, mast does not ever come out when on the water, just trying to get the "bundle" out of the way when rowing etc.
    Back to the lazyjacks..... ebay has them pre-configured and show them pretty well. So no need to gather the lines to the boom and strap them close to the mast when not in use? Not in the way of the belly of the sail when running? Is there NO need for a topping lift for the aft end of the boom then? I imagine a short "uphaul" line attached to the dog collar to raise the boom so its above eye site when muddling along as well? Appreciate the help guys. -Dan-

  22. #197
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,194

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The standard balanced lug does not have a line to the top of the yard because the downhaul tensions up the luff to the point that the yard goes where it needs to be. And once the sail is set, any line to the yard above the halyard is superfluous.

    But --- when raising and lowering the sail, it's a different story. The peak of the yard goes up last and comes down first. This can be at least awkward, and in high winds, dangerous. So I've rigged a peak halyard on my boat. But its only job is to control the yard when raising and lowering the sail. In use, I haul on the peak halyard first to get the yard up against and parallel to the mast. Then I haul on the main halyard. Once the sail is set, the peak halyard loses the tension in it and doesn't come into play until I drop the sail, at which time I ease both halyards together, bringing the yard down parallel to the boom.

    It sounds like a lot of lines for a "simple" rig. But there are just four, all brought to the aft end of the cabin top. The mast on this boat remains in its tabernacle when dropped. So all I have to do is put a strap around the lines to bind them to the mast before I drop it. The lines very rarely get out of place in the process.
    -Dave

  23. #198
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Great Barrington, MA
    Posts
    1,130

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I have a system almost exactly like that on my Swampscott to keep my weight amidships where it belongs and to keep the tiller at a reasonable length. Two yolks joined by lines, one yolk on the rudder, the other forward a few feet on a post that rotates in a couple of blocks of wood. Works great. Zero complaints. Feels just like a regular tiller though the cord I used (6mm climbing rope) is kinda stretchy. It would be improved with Dyeema or similar. (And ps, beautiful boat!)

  24. #199
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    490

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Dave, your tutorial on the operation of a peak halyard was helpful, something every lug rig could use.
    I'm trying to keep my boat simple while improving it. Often an improvement creates complexity or adds a component. For instance, I added a becket block to go from a 2 part to a 3 part downhaul. Ugh, too busy. Tossing the fixed head block but retaining the becket block I ran the line from the becket on the boom, down around the horn cleat on the mast, up around the becket block and back down to the cleat. Better.
    Now a peak halyard is next on the list. Halyard secured to the peak, through a fixed head block lashed to the mast top located by an eye strap on the front of the mast and down to a cleat I think.
    Wait! No cleat needed, just run the halyard through an existing hole in the mast partner, back on itself and finish with a couple half hitches. I like this game.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  25. #200
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,194

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I should add one more detail for anyone who contemplates the peak halyard on this rig - the halyard is more effective if it slides on a span from roughly the center of the yard to a point near but not at the top end. Doing this reduces the need to adjust the peak halyard because as the sail is raised and hardened up by the main halyard, the peak halyard can slide down the span. This also keeps the peak halyard out of the way, out of the airflow, when sailing.

    Here's an image from Jerry Barnett's Drascombe page. He calls it a "spar catcher." Peak halyard is a term borrowed from the gaff rig.

    -Dave

  26. #201
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,885

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    The standard balanced lug does not have a line to the top of the yard because the downhaul tensions up the luff to the point that the yard goes where it needs to be. And once the sail is set, any line to the yard above the halyard is superfluous.

    But --- when raising and lowering the sail, it's a different story. The peak of the yard goes up last and comes down first. This can be at least awkward, and in high winds, dangerous.
    A note here that might be useful for some to think about:

    For smaller sails (say, maybe, 100 sq ft or less), you can eliminate that awkwardness. Here's how:

    1. As you raise the sail, first use your left hand (assuming yard & sail lie to port, as with most right-handed sailors' set-ups) to pick up the yard and lift it to overhead height, keeping the yard at the correct angle (foot down, head up) as you lift.

    2. Meanwhile, take up on the slack in the halyard with your right hand.

    3. Once you have lifted the yard above your head at the correct angle, and have taken up the slack in the halyard with your right hand, then you can let go of the yard and hoist away with both hands to fully raise the sail.

    Doing this drastically tames the behavior of the yard, and eliminates the need for an extra line to the peak. Here's a bit of video to show what I mean:



    Then, when it's time to lower the sail, do this:

    1. Grab and hold tension on the luff with your left hand BEFORE loosing the halyard--this is a crucial step.

    2. As you uncleat the halyard and lower the sail, continue pulling significant tension downward on the luff. It takes a bit of practice to get smooth with this, as you have to let the halyard slide through one hand, and/or "jump" your hand to a new position on the halyard, and on the luff of the sail.

    3. Once the yard is low enough to grab, reach up and grab it above your head. From here, you now have complete control of the yard. You can pull the sail down using your grip on the yard, and no longer have to worry about the halyard--you can just let it run.

    I see quite a few lugsail users who don't seem to do this. In my experience, managing the sail and yard this way makes the whole raising/lowering sail operation quite tame and manageable.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  27. #202
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Montana, USA
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    My 2 cents, your mileage will vary ... I have a friend with lazy jacks on his balanced lug and they work great for him. I gave them a try on my CY and although they worked fine I just did not like the added lines and complexity. So what I do now is just tie the whole yard-sail-boom together in a bundle and hoist it up with the halyard to the desired height. There is a loop at the aft end of the boom - I then run a short line from this to the mizzen mast to keep the aft end of the sail package at the right height too. This is how I do it when I camp on board too - I rig my tent underneath.

  28. #203
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    490

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    As usual the intended modification has complications that were unexpected. Managing the luff by hand with my small sail sounds more practical.
    The quest for a cure for problems that don't exist continues...
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  29. #204
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    490

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Some interesting rigging detail from Paul Gartside.

    https://store.gartsideboats.com/coll...rd-lugger-145#
    Click the thumbnails for better resolution.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  30. #205
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Los Osos, CA
    Posts
    386

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Scott Sadil is building one of these #166's. He occasionally posts photos on his FB page.

  31. #206
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    490

    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Good on him! I really like that one. Were I a FB member I'd go drool... er, look.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •