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Thread: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Thanks emf and lagspiller. The plank laps seems to be good. i don`t think the rivits are rusty, maybe just on the surface, but i have to check them when I remove paint. It seems like the planking is in good shape except the cracks, so I think I will try to repair them with splines. I can replace planks later if i am not satisfied with that solution, or if i want to do it the "proper" way. I do have a question, although I dont need an answer before the spring. The hull is very dry. Should I wet it a bit and let it swell to a certain degree before doing any repairs? I have heard that if you use oil before the boat has swelled, it might not swell because the oil keep the water out, and the cracks and plank laps wont close up...

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Thanks emf and lagspiller. The plank laps seems to be good. i don`t think the rivits are rusty, maybe just on the surface, but i have to check them when I remove paint. It seems like the planking is in good shape except the cracks, so I think I will try to repair them with splines. I can replace planks later if i am not satisfied with that solution, or if i want to do it the "proper" way. I do have a question, although I dont need an answer before the spring. The hull is very dry. Should I wet it a bit and let it swell to a certain degree before doing any repairs? I have heard that if you use oil before the boat has swelled, it might not swell because the oil keep the water out, and the cracks and plank laps wont close up...
    This depends on whether you are going to keep her in a boat noost and dry sail her or keep her afloat. To stop the cracking she needs to be kept at stable humidity.
    Iether way I think that you should do the glued repairs before you oil, or you risk the glue failing to stick to oily wood.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #38
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    This old photo was in the local newspaper today. This is an åttring, a bit larger than the seksring. Stability seems to be no issue here, but i dont think he is going ofshore with that pile of firewood.


  4. #39
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Ice cold outside, so my projects have stalled now when the winter is at its darkest. But I got some nice books for Christmas. Two books about Nordlandsboat and Åfjordboat. One about the use, and one about construction. looking forward to read this.

    The books are written in Nynorsk (New-norwegian) the second official language in Norway. Funny that our little country have two versions of our language.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Thanks emf and lagspiller. The plank laps seems to be good. i don`t think the rivits are rusty, maybe just on the surface, but i have to check them when I remove paint. It seems like the planking is in good shape except the cracks, so I think I will try to repair them with splines. I can replace planks later if i am not satisfied with that solution, or if i want to do it the "proper" way. I do have a question, although I dont need an answer before the spring. The hull is very dry. Should I wet it a bit and let it swell to a certain degree before doing any repairs? I have heard that if you use oil before the boat has swelled, it might not swell because the oil keep the water out, and the cracks and plank laps wont close up...
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Ice cold outside, so my projects have stalled now when the winter is at its darkest. But I got some nice books for Christmas. Two books about Nordlandsboat and Åfjordboat. One about the use, and one about construction. looking forward to read this.

    The books are written in Nynorsk (New-norwegian) the second official language in Norway. Funny that our little country have two versions of our language.
    Three.
    You forgot samisk.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    How could I forget Samisk? I grew up in Finmark so maybe it was too obvious :-) Anyway these books are really informative and interesting reading, and a good inspiration to continue with restoring the boat. I am hoping for a mild winter and early spring here!

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    To remove paint from inside a lapstrake boat might not be the most satisfying job to do, but it was not as bad as expected. i feel like I am wrapping out the good workmanship in this boat. I will also get a good overview of how much work it needs to get back in shape. Spring is getting closer, and a few degrees on the + side makes it easier tho work in the shed.


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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Roll on warmer weather! Not a good time to be using epoxy. Im looking forward to another trip up North, anywhere in Finmark you would suggest not to miss?

    Have you removed a floor between that frame Fred?

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    I grew up in Alta in Finmark, but I am not used to look at it as a tourist :-) But i will recomend a visit to the canyon where the river runs from Kautokeino to the Alta-fjord. you can drive up on the tundra and walk an hour to get to a part of the canyon with some impressive cliffs. Alta museum have this rock-carvings, and you might find some boat-plans carved into the rocks too :-) Finmark is as you might know a big area, so it also depends how much you want to drive, and what you are looking for.

    I have not moved a floor, it is a part of the frame the previous owner removed because it was rot in it. I still have that part, and will use it as a template for making a new. You also see patterns in front of that where a frame is missing. This is also removed and have some rot in it. there are a couple of frame parts elswhere also in the boat that need to be replaced.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Thanks. I was wondering about both the space under the frame and the missing frames, too.
    I guess you have just pushed the floor together under the larger frame for the photo?

    Looks like you are doing a very good job.

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.


  12. #47
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Yes lagspiller, the floor is just slided out of place.

    My motivation right now is much larger than my ammount of time,,, no surprise... But I believe this boat will be on the water before next autum.

    Thanks for the documant Faering

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.


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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.



    That planking looks to have cleaned up very well Fred. Laborious job.

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Thanks for putting up my picture. I strugle a bit posting pictures, guess I must read the tutorial again, but it worked well before...

    It was wery laborious, but worth it. Now i have inspected every inch of the planking, and there is no rot, as I can see. Next up is remowing the battens that is screwed on the outside of the cracks, and then I am ready for repairing the cracks. It is still some paint left on the nails, and I will clean up that too.

    Fred

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Now I have startet the work in fixing the cracks. I use some handtools like knife, saw and rasp, to make an even cut in the wood for the spline. On the picture you see the wood in the crack and it seems to be in good shape. It is still too cold for epoxy, so I must glue it later.



  17. #52
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Nice job. Although i would not recommend doing anything other than whats written on your epoxy bottle, i have been doing some bogging and fairing this week, and after getting last months electric bill, i didnt use heaters again. Everything seems to have gone off rock hard as usual, but taking a few days before you can take glass paper to it without gumming. Not been much over +4 in day and still minus at night.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Still to cold for epoxy-work so I started on frame member today. Some of the frames members needed replacing. I found a way to measure out the shape of the piece like you see in the picture.



    Then I used the bandsaw to cut it out. I have learned it is important to shape the frames so that the water can be drained away to prevent rot, so I made a groove like you see in the picture.



    Then I shaped it to fit. On the picture you see version two, as I took off to much on the first one.



    I was lucky to find a crocked piece for the next member. So far.... good enough.


  19. #54
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post

    Then I used the bandsaw to cut it out. I have learned it is important to shape the frames so that the water can be drained away to prevent rot, so I made a groove like you see in the picture.


    I do not agree with hollowing the faying surfaces. That will encourage condensation, wet and rot. The frames should fit with good contact all over the faying surface and be sealed with a good luting of thick paint, thick varnish, or tar. You do need limbers to allow water to drain forward and aft along the laps.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    I have read about this grooves in the books mentioned above, and I have some of the old frames and there is a grove in all of them like this. I will post a picture of the old frames later. I am making limbers, and I also have a job to do cleaning up all of them as they are filled with paint and dirt.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    This is absolutely the first time I have seen this practice. None of the builds with sawn frames in clinker on this forum, nor my own boat, nor anything I have read or seen elsewhere on the web employ this practice. I strongly advise against it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #57
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    I think I understand the concern about condensation, but the grove goes all the way down to the limbers, so no moisture is trapped. I was reading now one more time about this in the books by Eldjarn/Godal. The grooves was made with an axe, and then they used a knife for the final adjustment of the frame. maybe this groove was mostly for making this job easier? But I appreciate that you share your thoughts about this Nick, because this is the reason for posting about this project :-)

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    I think I understand the concern about condensation, but the grove goes all the way down to the limbers, so no moisture is trapped. I was reading now one more time about this in the books by Eldjarn/Godal. The grooves was made with an axe, and then they used a knife for the final adjustment of the frame. maybe this groove was mostly for making this job easier? But I appreciate that you share your thoughts about this Nick, because this is the reason for posting about this project :-)
    I can see an axe leaving the surface slightly hollow but not grooved so much. Final fitting with a knife, or any other edge tool can then achieve a good fit over all.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Guess you have a point. After final fitting, my grooves are not as deep as in this picture. Next time int the workshop i Will take some photos.

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    I have read about this grooves in the books mentioned above, and I have some of the old frames and there is a grove in all of them like this. I will post a picture of the old frames later. I am making limbers, and I also have a job to do cleaning up all of them as they are filled with paint and dirt.
    The groove is not the main point; it is a result of how it is made. And the groove was filled with thick tar (and sometimes also tarred yarn) to prevent water to get in there. In the volum 3 of the books “Nordlandsbåten og Åfjordbåten” page 64 there are two pictures showing how it was done. As it is difficult to hew along lines on both side of the piece of wood at the same time, half of the thickness was hewn first following the line on one side using the ”front tip” of the axe; than the other half was hewn using the “back tip” of the axe. The tip always landed in the center of the piece of wood and the axe was held at an angle so there became a groove in the center. By doing so, the two edges became kind of sharp with little wood that was easy to remove (by knife or other suitable tool) to get a perfect match to the boat. As mentioned the grove was filled with thick tar before fixing to the boat. Tar was also applied the rest of the surface facing the boat. (It was sometimes a desire to keep the wood a bit hollow to prevent the edges to open when the wood got wet and swelled).
    Last edited by Faering; 04-12-2015 at 04:25 AM. Reason: volum 2 changed to 3

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Thank you Faering. I could not find that photo in my edition of the book... I think I was wrong about the reason for the groove first time I looked at this. I will try to minimize the dept of the groove, and also fill it with tar before I fix it to the boat. I am glad you follow me in this project. :-)

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Thank you Faering. I could not find that photo in my edition of the book... I think I was wrong about the reason for the groove first time I looked at this. I will try to minimize the dept of the groove, and also fill it with tar before I fix it to the boat. I am glad you follow me in this project. :-)
    You now have a better variety of tools available, so you can fit your floors and futtocks without any groove or hollow at all. If the Old Men had band saws they would not have used the axe and would have achieved a better fit at the first go.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    Thank you Faering. I could not find that photo in my edition of the book... I think I was wrong about the reason for the groove first time I looked at this. I will try to minimize the dept of the groove, and also fill it with tar before I fix it to the boat. I am glad you follow me in this project. :-)
    Sorry about the volume number. It should be volume 3 as now corrected to.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    OK. I have only 1 and 2. Do you recomend 3 and 4?

    Here is a picture of the original frame and the grooves made on the underside of the frame. This boat is buildt in 1996, but it seems like the builder has used axe and knife to fix the frames.


  30. #65
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    ^ Does not look as though there was any luting on them. Was there any sign of rot?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    No signs of rot. The damages on this boat is a bit strange. The frames that needed replacing had rot on the topsides, but not on the underside touching the planking. There is also some rot in small areas on the sheer. I believe it this comes from storage, as if there have been some stuff stored inside the boat, keeping the moisture trapped.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredostli View Post
    OK. I have only 1 and 2. Do you recomend 3 and 4?

    Here is a picture of the original frame and the grooves made on the underside of the frame. This boat is buildt in 1996, but it seems like the builder has used axe and knife to fix the frames.

    Volume 3 is about Åfjordsbåten and volume 4 is more general. Unless you are in particular interested in Åfjordsbåten I think you have the two most interesting volumes.

    It seems that axe has been used, but there is not much sign of tar. May be this boat builder didn’t use tar. I thing you should call him and asked what he used. I don’t think I will recommend you to use tar if that has not been used originally. Tar is a messy stuff.

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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    Interesting. Never seen that before either, but can understand how it has come about because of the tools used. I would rather have as much contact surface as possible on a faying surface, especially on a frame. That last photo shows no sign of any tar having been used on that futtock.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    I found two pictures from Småbåtverkstaden at Hardanger Fartøyvernsenter showing how it should be done. As you can see the hewing is much smoother than it appears from your boat.



    Last edited by Faering; 08-09-2015 at 10:50 AM.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Restoring a 20 ft. Nordlandsbåt. Traditional row and sail from northern Norway.

    ^ Interesting. I would have hewn down to the lines leaving a shallow ridge. And then used the flat of the side axe as a broad chisel to pare off the ridge to a flat faying surface.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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