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Thread: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

  1. #1
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    Default What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    We've come a long way since cough syrups would contain cocaine or heroin... but medical science is still a long way from 'perfect'.

    Many years ago, my primary care physician recommended that I take a low-dose aspirin each day ('baby aspirin', as it was called at the time, but is now marketed as 'low-dose') to keep the blood thin and prevent clots. "It will save your life," my physician told me. My current cardiologist has confirmed the same recommendation, for the past 5 or more years.

    A few weeks back, however, a recent news report was now saying that doctors should NOT recommend a daily low-dose aspirin to patients in the 40 to 70 year old range, unless indicated by other factors. The premise of the report is that a daily aspirin exposes the patient to bleeding risks.

    Just weeks later, comes another unsettling report.

    I have familial cholesterolemia.... i.e., high cholesterol, and every male Bernstein I know is subject to the same situation... which is why I've been taking a statin for many years now. The results, according to my lab tests, have been outstanding; my HDL and LDL levels, as well as the key ratios, are all in the 'very good' range. I also suffer from a related maledy that all other Bernsteins have also suffered from: high triglycerides. For that, I have taken a drug called fenofibrate, for many years.

    The results of fenofibrate are good... but not as good as the results from taking simvastatin. My triglyceride level is within the normal range... but only barely. 6 months ago, it was 150, which is right at the top of the recommended range. About then, I ran across a medical research report on the net, which was an in-depth study of the effectivity of various triglyceride-lowering medications, both single, and in combination. The conclusion of the study was very clear: the best triglyceride control was afforded by the combination of both fenofibrate, and O3FA's (Omega-3 fatty acids, also known as 'fish oil').

    So, I mentioned this to my doctor, and he thought it would be OK for me to add a fish oil capsule to my drug regimen.

    Lo and behold, comes a NEW study, which now says that O3FA's are implicated in the increased risk of atrial fibrilation!

    WTF? Who knows WHAT advice is safe to take?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  2. #2
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Holy ****! I take a 03FA (wife suggested hers) and I have occasional atrial fibrilation!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    WHEW! Never mind. Wife says it's D3 for "bone health", not Fish Oil. Looks like Fish Oil I used to take years ago.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    WHEW! Never mind. Wife says it's D3 for "bone health", not Fish Oil. Looks like Fish Oil I used to take years ago.
    Yeah, they're both amber-colored clear gel caps... but the O3FA is usually a lot bigger.

    I take the D3, as well.... in all, eight different pills or capsules, taken every night, for years now.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  5. #5
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Just goes to show we don't know everything. One has to go with the best available information, knowing next year we might figure out that it's wrong. What else can you do? Nobody gets out of here alive.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    We've come a long way since cough syrups would contain cocaine or heroin... but medical science is still a long way from 'perfect'.

    Many years ago, my primary care physician recommended that I take a low-dose aspirin each day ('baby aspirin', as it was called at the time, but is now marketed as 'low-dose') to keep the blood thin and prevent clots. "It will save your life," my physician told me. My current cardiologist has confirmed the same recommendation, for the past 5 or more years.

    A few weeks back, however, a recent news report was now saying that doctors should NOT recommend a daily low-dose aspirin to patients in the 40 to 70 year old range, unless indicated by other factors. The premise of the report is that a daily aspirin exposes the patient to bleeding risks.

    Just weeks later, comes another unsettling report.

    I have familial cholesterolemia.... i.e., high cholesterol, and every male Bernstein I know is subject to the same situation... which is why I've been taking a statin for many years now. The results, according to my lab tests, have been outstanding; my HDL and LDL levels, as well as the key ratios, are all in the 'very good' range. I also suffer from a related maledy that all other Bernsteins have also suffered from: high triglycerides. For that, I have taken a drug called fenofibrate, for many years.

    The results of fenofibrate are good... but not as good as the results from taking simvastatin. My triglyceride level is within the normal range... but only barely. 6 months ago, it was 150, which is right at the top of the recommended range. About then, I ran across a medical research report on the net, which was an in-depth study of the effectivity of various triglyceride-lowering medications, both single, and in combination. The conclusion of the study was very clear: the best triglyceride control was afforded by the combination of both fenofibrate, and O3FA's (Omega-3 fatty acids, also known as 'fish oil').

    So, I mentioned this to my doctor, and he thought it would be OK for me to add a fish oil capsule to my drug regimen.

    Lo and behold, comes a NEW study, which now says that O3FA's are implicated in the increased risk of atrial fibrilation!

    WTF? Who knows WHAT advice is safe to take?
    Warren Zevon's.

    Life'll killya.

    Rattling the teacups.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Norman, I 'feel your pain' - some years back, my GP ordered a blood test and my triglycerides came back at 1435 (not a misprint) . Fenofibrate for me, and triglycerides have been 'normal' ever since. [Internet research showed a group of people in (Sardinia?) have triglyceride levels at that level as typical - they do eat a lot of fish as part of ther diet ]


    Rick

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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    ^^^ Life'll kill ya. I keep telling people that some of us are healthier than others when we die. Also known as "Every silver lining has a cloud."
    "...moved as he was solely by the desire for truth, and by the suspicion...that the truth was not what was appearing to him at that moment."

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    WHEW! Never mind. Wife says it's D3 for "bone health", not Fish Oil. Looks like Fish Oil I used to take years ago.
    Fish oil didn't agree with me. Finally stopped it.

    This thread reminds me of a doctor visit I had one evening, MANY years ago. He suggested I take a walk every night after dinner.

    At the time I was a 'sub' and that day I had carried two mail routes (before they were motorized), so the idea of doing more walking didn't set all that well.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Norman, I 'feel your pain' - some years back, my GP ordered a blood test and my triglycerides came back at 1435 (not a misprint) . Fenofibrate for me, and triglycerides have been 'normal' ever since. [Internet research showed a group of people in (Sardinia?) have triglyceride levels at that level as typical - they do eat a lot of fish as part of ther diet ]


    Rick
    At one point mine were 1900 plus, also not a misprint. They were too high. Then they came down to 600, and they were too high. I thought it a substantial improvement.
    Now he's gone. If only he'd be forgotten.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    SamF is the only one we can trust...



    Jeff C

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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    SamF is the only one we can trust...

    Jeff C
    Precisely.

    When it comes to diet, I don't listen much to the 'latest'. I simply try to eat 'whole foods' as much as possible. And organic if I can. Home-cooked amap. Steer away from processing, extra salt and sugar. Preservatives, dyes, and other chemicals. My biggest challenge is portion control. I do loves food.

    To a substantial degree, but not a fanatical degree.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  13. #13
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    SamF is the only one we can trust...



    Jeff C
    whizbang

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    I take meds for high blood pressure and Cholesterol and have for years.
    My latest test results were all excellent so that's good.
    Anyway, I was also given the low-dose Aspirin at first but was taken off it after a couple of years.
    This was because on one of my regular blood tests, I didn,t stop bleeding.
    My Dr said...with my job, if I cut myself I would probably bleed to death.
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    I have long thought that medical advice was just that advice. That I was free to take or ignore.

    From time to time I change my medical behaviors. Not because medical advice changes, but because I fell like changing my behavior.

    I take several supplements. They make my urine valuable. That is a good enough reason for my current behavior. The placebo effects are another benefit.
    Life is complex.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    uhhhhh. . . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    uhhhhh. . . .
    That is one strange hombre...

    Jeff C

  18. #18
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Some years ago I broke my right fibula in two places, top and bottom. In the hospital, an orthopedic surgeon checked my leg. Felt it, palpated it top to bottom. Had a half-dozen x-rays taken of it. Pronounced that the bone was in proper place for it to heal already -- that he could do nothing surgically to improve it. He did not operate. I considered him to be a wise man. Wisdom, in my way of thinking, lies in knowing one's limits and one's strengths. A wise man thinks for himself, and knows when to accede to the wisdom of others where his own knowledge or experience is lacking. A wise man avoids both failings described by Dunning-Kruger.
    "...moved as he was solely by the desire for truth, and by the suspicion...that the truth was not what was appearing to him at that moment."

  19. #19
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you


  20. #20
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    This should fit here.
    "para todo mal, mezcal, y para todo bien también" (for everything bad, mezcal, and for everything good, as well.)

  21. #21
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Maybe the first thing to realize is that science is always wrong. It may get less wrong, one hopes it does, but it is still, and always will be, wrong.
    When I read the big study published in NEMJ few years ago that called out the excess bleeding, I noticed that it was done with an aspirin dose of 100 mg per day. "Baby aspirin" is 82.5 mg. So the study was done with a dose 25% higher than what I was taking. I stopped anyway.
    I am always a little leery of the studies of small, isolated populations because of the possibility of genetic drift. They may have different gene frequencies than the general population.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Maybe the first thing to realize is that science is always wrong. It may get less wrong, one hopes it does, but it is still, and always will be, wrong.
    When I read the big study published in NEMJ few years ago that called out the excess bleeding, I noticed that it was done with an aspirin dose of 100 mg per day. "Baby aspirin" is 82.5 mg. So the study was done with a dose 25% higher than what I was taking. I stopped anyway.
    I am always a little leery of the studies of small, isolated populations because of the possibility of genetic drift. They may have different gene frequencies than the general population.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    The problem is not the science. It's the medicine.

    The incentives of a for-profit
    medical system are not at all the same as those of science.

    I'd be very suspicious of any chronic treat
    ment being sold to asymptomatic people, based solely on "tests". It provides a steady and predictable revenue stream, which is what the system most craves. One might say the system is addicted to such things.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Taking a drug to lower numbers in test results and calling that healthy is just daft...imo of course.
    statin, asprin,blood thinner.....good luck with that.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by webishop14 View Post
    Some years ago I broke my right fibula in two places, top and bottom. In the hospital, an orthopedic surgeon checked my leg. Felt it, palpated it top to bottom. Had a half-dozen x-rays taken of it. Pronounced that the bone was in proper place for it to heal already -- that he could do nothing surgically to improve it. He did not operate. I considered him to be a wise man. Wisdom, in my way of thinking, lies in knowing one's limits and one's strengths. A wise man thinks for himself, and knows when to accede to the wisdom of others where his own knowledge or experience is lacking. A wise man avoids both failings described by Dunning-Kruger.
    Huh ! I broke my femur and smashed my trochanter rollerskating when I was 50 yo.Doc wanted to do a surgery to screw it together and another surgery to remove some bits later
    I said "no thanks" to the whole thing.
    The obese nurse who had prepped me for surgery was pizzed off (I could tell) at "roller skating at your age"and not doing the surgeries.
    I told her in 8 weeks I'll be back on skates but you will still be fat.



    it was the pain drugs fault

  26. #26
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    Default Re: What used to be good for you, is now bad for you

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Taking a drug to lower numbers in test results and calling that healthy is just daft...imo of course.
    statin, asprin,blood thinner.....good luck with that.
    I kind of agree. For example, the effectiveness of statins at actually reducing mortality or increasing health is, I think, quite open to question. Yes, the numbers get lower on the tests. And there's a correlation between the numbers and health, longevity, etc. But I'm not aware that it's settled that simply achieving the lower numbers on tests has much, if any, effect on end results health-wise.

    I think, also, that there are obvious cases where drugs (again, statins for an example) work quite well for certain populations, and then are over-prescribed or used in situations where they may not be beneficial, or may even be harmful. Certainly big pharmaceuticals want them prescribed as broadly as possible, given our crazy for-profit "health" system, which treats symptoms rather than causes.

    https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/arti...ons-of-statins

    I suspect that's true of many drugs.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

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