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Thread: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

  1. #1
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    Default The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    The Democrats have a history of using dirty tricks to get their Healthcare law passed and funded.
    1. In order for the Dems to succeed in their plan they needed 60 Seats in the Senate to make a super-majority, so they convinced Arlen Specter a Republican to switch parties.
    2. Then because all spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives the Senate took the House Bill H.R. 3590, a bill giving housing tax breaks for service members (nothing to do with Healthcare) and rewrite the bill to be a healthcare bill.
    3. On December 24, 2009 the new bill will passed by the Senate.
    The date is important because in Nov Scott Brown (Republican) was elected Senator replacing Ted Kennedy but would not take office until Jan 2010.
    So in Jan the Dems would only have 59 Seats and no longer a super majority.

    4. Then the new bill is sent back to the House.
    The normal process the bill would go to committee get changed voted on and then go back to the Senate where the Bill might have been stopped by the Reps.
    But instead of following the normal process the House Dems decided to vote on Senate bill as is.
    This way it would not have to get back to the Senate and the President could sign it as is.
    5. The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it.
    6. Obama signed the ACA into law on March 23, 2010.

    Not fast forward to today.
    1. The Reps control the House and passed a bill funding the Entire Government except for the Healthcare law.
    2. The Bill goes to the Senate
    Normally the Bill would go to Committee get changed and voted on.
    But the Democrat leadership in the Senate is only going to allow 1 change (amendment) to the bill funding the Healthcare law.
    No one else is being allowed to change the bill.


    One has to wonder if this is such a good law why did the Dems have to do all these dirty tricks to get it passed?


    Supporting material.
    Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient...dable_Care_Act

    H.R. 3590 would modify the first-time homebuyers' tax credit for Armed Forces members, as well as Foreign Service and Intelligence Community employees on extended duty. The bill would waive recapture of the credit for qualifying individuals who must sell a residence after December 31, 2008, due to government orders for extended duty.
    http://www.gop.gov/bill/111/1/hr3590

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590ih/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590ih.pdf

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muBejjLoOGg

    Letter to Charles Rangel
    On behalf of the more than 105,000 members of the Association of the United States Army, I thank you for introducing H.R. 3590, the Service members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009, to address several inadvertent tax inequities imposed on uniformed service members as a result of other recent home-related tax legislation.
    http://www.ausa.org/legislation/cong...Actof2009.aspx
    Last edited by genglandoh; 09-25-2013 at 11:50 AM. Reason: error

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Wow..... Talk about paranoid spin....

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    all that seems perfectly legal to me

    aca, it's the law get used to it

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Ha hah hah, so funny.

    BTW, Arlen Specter chose on his own to turn Democrat because he was going to get primaried on the right. It had everything to do with his own self-preservation.

    Everybody, from both parties, have always tacked nonsense onto unrelated bills, a practice I deplore. No dirty tricks here, just business as usual, sadly.

    As for timing the vote, let me paraphrase Donald Rumseld, you go to vote with the Senate you've got. ;-)

    The regressives loathe Obama to his bones and will do and invent anything to thwart him. Their greatest fear is that Obamacare ( excuse me, Romneycare updated a bit ) will work. The horror, the horror! http://t.nbcnews.com/health/11-month...ind-8C11250211

    Now go away, geng. Whack whack, mole.
    Gerard>
    Langley, WA

    Don't believe Republican lies.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Ha hah hah, so funny.

    BTW, Arlen Specter chose on his own to turn Democrat because he was going to get primaried on the right. It had everything to do with his own self-preservation.

    Everybody, from both parties, have always tacked nonsense onto unrelated bills, a practice I deplore. No dirty tricks here, just business as usual, sadly.

    As for timing the vote, let me paraphrase Donald Rumseld, you go to vote with the Senate you've got. ;-)

    The regressives loathe Obama to his bones and will do and invent anything to thwart him. Their greatest fear is that Obamacare ( excuse me, Romneycare updated a bit ) will work. The horror, the horror! http://t.nbcnews.com/health/11-month...ind-8C11250211

    Now go away, geng. Whack whack, mole.
    seems to already be working

    i guess geng enjoys being sick and destitute

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    I wonder what the posts will look like a couple of years down the road if Obamacare actually works reasonably well.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    what i'd like to know is what the righties have against free market health care

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by wardd View Post
    what i'd like to know is what the righties have against free market health care
    Obama.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Can't forget the dirty trick of having a conservative supreme court find it constitutional.

    so we have a bill that was properlhy passed in both houses by the procedures in place, signed by the president, and found to be be constitutional by the supremes. Seems to me if you're a "constitutional conservative" you'd want to support such a law.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Genglandoh, you could at least get the basic facts right: it Scott Brown, not Scott Smith, who was elected to Kennedy's seat in the Senate.

    Beyond that, I fail to see a single 'dirty trick' here.... what was 'dirty'?

    You want an example of a 'dirty trick'? How about Ted Cruz, stalling the senate with his non-filibuster, merely to draw attention to himself.... and thereby denying other senators the right to speak on the subject?

    Or do other opinions and voices in the senate not count?
    the vote is scheduled for now, i believe

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    One question suggests itself, if it is so good, why does the WH keep delaying implementation and granting waivers?

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    One question suggests itself, if it is so good, why does the WH keep delaying implementation and granting waivers?
    oct 1 for the exchanges

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Genglandoh, you could at least get the basic facts right: it Scott Brown, not Scott Smith, who was elected to Kennedy's seat in the Senate.

    Beyond that, I fail to see a single 'dirty trick' here.... what was 'dirty'?

    You want an example of a 'dirty trick'? How about Ted Cruz, stalling the senate with his non-filibuster, merely to draw attention to himself.... and thereby denying other senators the right to speak on the subject?

    Or do other opinions and voices in the senate not count?
    Sorry I was going by memory.
    I fixed it.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    If you can't make a substantive argument, talk about the process. Never - "Look at this provision of the law; this is a bad idea." Instead, the argument goes "If it's so good then why are they (some procedural point)? " I guess, when you got nothing, you go with what you have.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    In order for the Dems to succeed in their plan they needed 60 Seats in the Senate to make a super-majority, so they convinced Arlen Specter a Republican to switch parties.
    What a bizarrely illogical statement.

    Becoming a Democrat did not obligate Arlen Specter to vote for it.... nor was it necessary for him to switch parties to vote for it.

    Even if we set aside the political, partisan argument, that doesn't even make sense as a logical statement.

    ================================================== ==============

    Also, while it is true that Ted Kennedy's death came at an inopportune moment for the Democrats, I'm really not sure that he was obligated to die at that particular moment because it suited you.

    One could argue that his constituents voted him in to office for that term and therefore his untimely departure was actually a departure from their intended plan.

    ================================================== ==========================

    Also, one could argue that the requirement for a 60-vote super-majority violates the basic principle of majority rule and is being exploited by the Republicans to an extraordinary degree. You'll notice, for example that neither the Supreme Court nor the House of Representatives operates with a super-majority requirement, so it's not as if this is a requirement (or even a common practice) for deliberative bodies.
    Last edited by ljb5; 09-25-2013 at 01:00 PM.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Something isn't right in Ohio.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The Democrats have a history of using dirty tricks to get their Healthcare law passed and funded.
    1. In order for the Dems to succeed in their plan they needed ......
    .....and easily elected Barak Obama as president without hanging ****ing chads and a bent Supreme court.
    Study Peace

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    C'mon! The fact that the Democrats got the passage of the bill by voting and so forth is itself ominous.
    The Case is Altered

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Coose View Post
    .....and easily elected Barak Obama as president without hanging ****ing chads and a bent Supreme court.
    That's how dirty they are, hidden dirt!

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post


    Once again, where is the 'dirty trick'? Both the House and the Senate often alter bills beyond recognizability, after they get them from the other chamber.... it's beeen standard procedure for a couple of centuries!
    I think you are wrong and what the Senate did was not normal.

    Can you give me an example where
    1. The House passed a spending bill
    2. The Senate then took the bill and completely changed the subject of the bill.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    I have one phrase for the GOP in this matter, one that makes the whole 'debate' a mockery and an insult to your founders,
    "Green Eggs and Ham".

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I have one phrase for the GOP in this matter, one that makes the whole 'debate' a mockery and an insult to your founders,
    "Green Eggs and Ham".
    Don't you think taking a House Spending bill and having the Senate completely change it from a bill giving housing tax breaks for service members to a healthcare bill just to bypass the Constitution is the real insult to our founders?

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Don't you think taking a House Spending bill and having the Senate completely change it from a bill giving housing tax breaks for service members to a healthcare bill just to bypass the Constitution is the real insult to our founders?
    Don't you think wasting thousands of tax payer dollars to read a fairy tale to yourself is an insult to everyone alive now, as well as our founding fathers?

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrleft8 View Post
    Don't you think wasting thousands of tax payer dollars to read a fairy tale to yourself is an insult to everyone alive now, as well as our founding fathers?
    Completely normal for filibusters.

    In a filibuster, a senator may continue to speak indefinitely to prevent a final vote on the bill.
    Some read the phone book, cite recipes for fried oysters, or read the Declaration of Independence.
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscong...ilibusters.htm

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Completely normal for filibusters.

    In a filibuster, a senator may continue to speak indefinitely to prevent a final vote on the bill.
    Some read the phone book, cite recipes for fried oysters, or read the Declaration of Independence.
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscong...ilibusters.htm
    it's not a filisbuster

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    So much for the 'greatest democra……………………. Sorry, you're a Republic aren't you. Or so I've been told before.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    It was not a true filibuster. It was a fake filibuster... a performance.

    The Senate can change any bill presented to them by the House in any manner they choose. There is nothing new about that. The House may take that and change it again. Nothing new about that either.

    Have you ever heard of a Conference Committee? Do you have any idea what function it serves?
    " I am one of those white, common sense conservatives. I believe in science and I have not taken the shot.”
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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Don't you think taking a House Spending bill and having the Senate completely change it from a bill giving housing tax breaks for service members to a healthcare bill just to bypass the Constitution is the real insult to our founders?
    As has been pointed out what the Senate did is perfectly legal. Whether it is ethical or not is a matter of opinion. Don't expect direct answers on this from the Obamaphiles.
    Conferences at the top level are always courteous. Name calling is left to the foreign ministers. (Averell Harriman)

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    It was not a true filibuster. It was a fake filibuster... a performance.

    The Senate can change any bill presented to them by the House in any manner they choose. There is nothing new about that. The House may take that and change it again. Nothing new about that either.

    Have you ever heard of a Conference Committee? Do you have any idea what function it serves?
    I think you are wrong and what the Senate did was not normal.

    Can you give me an example where
    1. The House passed a spending bill
    2. The Senate then took the bill and completely changed the subject of the bill.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    I think you are wrong and what the Senate did was not normal.

    Can you give me an example where
    1. The House passed a spending bill
    2. The Senate then took the bill and completely changed the subject of the bill.
    if it was a filibuster what did it delay?

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    One question suggests itself, if it is so good, why does the WH keep delaying implementation and granting waivers?
    Several reasons. Some places were late to get on board. Some places are still not on board. Bottom line is some placed needed more time to come on board, as they got a late start.

    This is a complex law and getting it right is likely far more important than getting fast.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
    As has been pointed out what the Senate did is perfectly legal. Whether it is ethical or not is a matter of opinion. Don't expect direct answers on this from the Obamaphiles.
    What are you going to say when this law is in full effect, and the vast majority find it a good thing?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    I think you are wrong and what the Senate did was not normal.Can you give me an example where
    1. The House passed a spending bill
    2. The Senate then took the bill and completely changed the subject of the bill.
    There is no normal in the Congress. Every nuance of every rule in the House and the Senate has been twisted, turned, exploited, and used by every party that has existed in the history of this country to get, or try to get, what they wanted. Welcome to politics, this is the same old-fashioned as close to normal as you get.

    If you don't like the way politics gets done, don't watch.

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    What are you going to say when this law is in full effect, and the vast majority find it a good thing?
    vast majority = sheeple

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    Default Re: The dirty tricks that the Dems have used to get Obamacare passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by wardd
    if it was a filibuster what did it delay?
    Cruz's theater delayed, for about 24 hours, a Senate vote on a House bill that Cruz actually supports.

    This is surreal.
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 09-25-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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