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Thread: Welsford Sundowner build

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Wise guys. Andrew I was hoping no one would notice the transom, and it is so close to the back of the shed it is nearly impossible to get a photo of it. I've got a lot of stuff to jam inside once I flip it before it goes on. Fairing and sanding will mostly be done after all the fibreglass goes on, another thing I'm dreading.

    Rick,
    I wish I had found a zig zag saw, but they must not be imported into Australia. I went traditional and marked out a template, 50mm high and 30mm wide "points" on some thin mdf the ply was protected with and cut it with a jigsaw.

    This is what it looks like:



    And some marked out sheets from earlier:




    Then it's jigsaw again.


    Mal
    Last edited by Quest; 07-11-2017 at 09:04 PM.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  2. #177
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Mal I thought I saw a place where it looked like you'd done a traditional scarf, how do you reckon they compare?

  3. #178
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Mal I thought I saw a place where it looked like you'd done a traditional scarf, how do you reckon they compare?
    Andrew you did, I had to add an extra bit into the second pieces so they fell onto a hardwood cross piece down near the transom end. With my woodworking skills I found the zig zag easier, but I've only done two the other way. I'm sure if I had to I could get better. The downside of the zigzag is you need solid wood underneath to screw into, which may not suit all designs. I was happy because mine had wide solid wood under, if it was into a 20mm bit of hoop pine I think I would go with the traditional way.



    Mal
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  4. #179
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Those zig zag cuts look like just the thing to drive a fella clear into the Zone of Zen considering all the light yet repetitive work they require.Not unlike sanding in some ways.Then again, there appears great potential to see a fella driven clear to drink too...but that is just medicine for all the mind numbing suffered during such tasks.

    So...no transom on yet.Good plan, if you have a load of stuff to introduce inside the hull before closing her up.


    Continued success!




    Cheers!



    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  5. #180
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Thanks Mal, looking really great!

    Rick

  6. #181
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Don't boost my ego too much, as has been pointed out the transom still hasn't been put on and notice how all the shots are from a distance???

    Once the final piece of the hull was done, and I had the half beer I was allowed by Andrew it was onwards. Trimmed the side to bottom join and sanded it to a curve. Then fill all the screw holes with epoxy and light filler powder, then sand off.

    Filling:




    Then it was tape time, 200mm wide, 420gsm biaxial. Cut the lengths for the chine join, 6.1m long and cut the others while up on top by rolling it out. Epoxy on the hull at the chine join, lay on the tape (which stayed there with no other support) and work front to back wetting out. First one done:




    From the side:




    I did both sides then moved scales, epoxy etc up on top and did the side/bottom ones. Final shots from overhead front looking back:




    Showing the side/bottom/stem join (cover piece to come on stem):




    And looking down the second side to the transom:




    Next is to glass the entire hull.
    Last edited by Quest; 07-11-2017 at 09:08 PM. Reason: tape weight corrected
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  7. #182
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    How quick does this guy work. Bet he doesn't have a job and there's a team of shipwrights hiding in the corner just out of camera shot. Better be careful or they'll slap a sticky on you
    sorry Mal couldn't resist, all power to you

  8. #183
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    How quick does this guy work. Bet he doesn't have a job and there's a team of shipwrights hiding in the corner just out of camera shot. Better be careful or they'll slap a sticky on you
    sorry Mal couldn't resist, all power to you
    There's enough sticky things in the shed at the moment, but yes it is coming along well. Fairing after should bring me back to reality.

    Shot from a distance, light wasn't any good before:

    Last edited by Quest; 07-11-2017 at 09:08 PM.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  9. #184
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Fantastic Mal high fives back pats man hugs but only half a beer you can have the rest when you cover in the transom, you think I forgot didn't you, I noticed the sneaky lack of pictures of that bit. Top achievement all the same now for the hard bit filling and fairing and heaps of SANDING.
    The transom goes in very late in the piece. Few builders have enough clearance overhead to crane the motor in, and its much easier to wait until the keel deadwood is on, the hull glassed and rolled over. Then a couple of guys can lift the little diesel up through the open stern and slide it in along a plank on the cockpit floor framing, then lift it into place on the engine mounts.
    Its also much easier to toss materials and tools in through the open transom than it is to climb up on ladders and scaffolds.

    Nice job so far, keep up the good work. All going well I'll see you in Hobart in 2017, the Huon River looks a nice place for a sail.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  10. #185
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    All going well I'll see you in Hobart in 2017, the Huon River looks a nice place for a sail.

    John Welsford
    If I'm finished by then I'll hold you to that John.

    Mal
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  11. #186
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    If I'm finished by then I'll hold you to that John.

    Mal
    I'm told that there are a couple of spare berths at the jetty near Andy Gamlins wooden boat school, see you there.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  12. #187
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    I am very fortunate that I have an understanding family and my build is 20m from the house so I can get a bit more done than those who have to travel. I also can do little bits of prep here and there and attack the big jobs when I have plenty of time.

    The sides are glassed, took a lot of trips up and down the ladder and LOTS of epoxy over several days. I stood on top and unrolled the 450gsm 1200mm (and a little bit) wide biaxial sheet down the sides and cut to length, also marked each side with pencil on the hull so I knew where to epoxy to. Rolled them up and put them on top so I didn't mix them up, and away I went.




    Managed to get the foreman to get the one of the shipwrights to get his apprentice to take a shot of one of the other shiprights at work pre coating the hull with epoxy for Andrew!:




    Same side done:




    Other side:




    And as always a front on shot:







    Next is to glass the bottom, then coat it all with epoxy a few times, then epoxy/sanding filler a few times in preparation for fairing.
    Last edited by Quest; 07-11-2017 at 11:51 PM.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  13. #188
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Hi Mal, as usual your work rate is impressive to say the least. A question - which hardener are you using and what do you mix the large quantities in? What sort of time do you reckon you get before the goop starts to go off? Andrew

  14. #189
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Hi Mal, as usual your work rate is impressive to say the least. A question - which hardener are you using and what do you mix the large quantities in? What sort of time do you reckon you get before the goop starts to go off? Andrew
    Thanks Andrew. I am using the normal hardener for the bote-cote and it seems to last in the pot plenty of time. Hard to judge I was busy but with the cooler weather at the moment easily half an hour or more. I was measuring by weight using kitchen scales in a clip seal bag to protect it from drips and started in a large icecream container with lots of 160g hardener to 400g epoxy. But with the size of the hull I went up to 400g to 1000g but that was starting to go off by the end. Once mixed I poured it into a roller tray and went heavy on the hull to hold the mat in place.

    I ended up cutting back to about 200g/500g which seemed better. Smaller batches so it was very running was better for wetting out, even if it meant more mixing it was easier in the long run.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  15. #190
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Mal, I asked and you can buy the hardeners separately if you want. Might make it easier for you. I am having probs with getting the glue to go hard enough to hold ( temps o'night can get down to zero here! ) last night I thought sod it and left a heater under the hull all night. One thing I asked about was fast hardener which they reckon has more open time but ultimately doesn't gain full strength much quicker! Go figure, bit like false advertising

  16. #191
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Andrew,
    I thought fast hardener would set quicker, not give you more open time? Thankfully it has stayed cool but not cold up here so the epoxy goes off quick enough that there are no runs and is set hard by the next day. I'm happy mixing as I am, once I got used to mixing the larger amounts it was actually quite quick. With the big roller there was no chance of it going off in the pot, a good layer on the hull and throw on the mat, wet it out and move on to the next one.

    Mal
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  17. #192
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Whoops LESS open time but doesn't gain full strength much quicker.

  18. #193
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Whereabouts are you Mal? For some reason I thought you were in Adelaide.

    Rick

  19. #194
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Whereabouts are you Mal? For some reason I thought you were in Adelaide.

    Rick
    Rick,
    Usually sunny, but raining for the last few days, Brisbane.


    Mal
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  20. #195
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Progress continues, but it does not have the visual rewards it used to!

    After the sides were on I cut and epoxied to bottom piece, working front to back in one long piece. Cutting the mat:




    And after epoxy:




    Once it was dry I gave the whole hull a light sand, put a second coat on the sides, then the bottom by which time I could go back and get a third coat on the sides. There were empty epoxy bottles everywhere, thank goodness I didn't try to make a 28 or 32 foot boat.

    With three coats on the sides and two on the bottom (bottom ones were thicker because the epoxy didn't run off) the weave was fully covered and the epoxy smooth. I have now put a coat on the sides with sanding filler mixed in using a 4mm notched tile adhesive spreader:




    The torture board is starting to haunt my dreams, I'll have to check back earlier in the thread but I'm sure there were plenty of volunteers to help...........
    Last edited by Quest; 07-11-2017 at 11:54 PM.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  21. #196
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    You know I'd love to help Mal, but I don't think my arms are long enough . Seriously though I have been thinking how I'd tackle it and I reckon drawing a fair line with a batten along the chine and then sand to that then fill more if necessary. It's a more pleasant look if the chine is fair. Mentally divide the job into sections and do one at a time before you know it. Also I don't think you need to sand to that fine a grit cos another layer of filler will go on after and also the hi-build undercoat paint, each layer in turn a finer grit all the while working to a fairer hull. A long stiff long-board for first layer then shorter more flexible as you get towards the undercoat, like planing timber. Best of luck , Andrew
    P.S. that hull looks way more than 24 ft in that last pic!

  22. #197
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    How goes it Mal?

  23. #198
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    In a word Andrew, "slowly". I have had some computer problems and school holiday activities but managed to get one side done. Should have the computer fixed this week and will throw up a few pictures. It has been as bad as I dreaded, but I'm getting there. More soon.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  24. #199
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Back into the computer, work has continued slowly in the shed. Fairing, what can I say without resorting to language that would get me suspended. Made a torture board, which promptly illustrated how it got it's name. I have found that many thin layers, spread with a wide plastic spatula seems to work best for me.

    After early sand:




    Re-coating:




    First side almost done:




    Other side early sand:



    After today's coat:




    To be continued..........
    Last edited by Quest; 07-11-2017 at 11:57 PM.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  25. #200
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quest!
    Howmuch is spent plywood, boards, screws, glue, fiberglass fabric, until today?

  26. #201
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quote Originally Posted by sector View Post
    Quest!
    Howmuch is spent plywood, boards, screws, glue, fiberglass fabric, until today?
    Sector,
    Don't tell my wife but I think it would over AU $10000. But, I don't have machinery to make my own planks from bulk logs or larger wood (band saw etc, plane/thicknesser (if that is what they are called)). I have definitely paid more to have all the wood cut to near the exact size I needed and be finished, but that was my choice. I also had the ply cut into planks as well for the hull.

    A more experienced builder would also have wasted less epoxy, but I am getting better. If I had paid more attention when preping the hull I may not have had so much fairing but I am sure Andrew will tell me it is character building or something.


    Mal
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  27. #202
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    No, we'll all tell you it's character building! That's why we're all such well-built characters!

    Looking great Mal!

    Rick

  28. #203
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Thanks Rick. I'm well into the second side and sorting wood for the keel. The only thing stopping me from spitting my dummy is that it would land in the great pile of filler on the concrete...........
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  29. #204
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    3cheers for you Mal I'm bloody impressed with anyone who can get through that much fairing.

  30. #205
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Quest!
    Boat this is a disease in the mind. 10000 $ this a good sum it is possible to purchase boat the second hands! I will not say to your wife- greatly you I understand!*
    *I wanted to know how much you they spent materials on the pieces until today?plywood-pieces, board-m3, glue-kg and so on? Best regards!!!
    Last edited by sector; 08-12-2013 at 12:26 AM.

  31. #206
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Sector,
    The two layers of the hull were 19 sheets of 9mm, and I have at least a sheet (in strips) left to use on the front deck. I have two spreadsheets (don't ask me why) that I used to calculate the solid wood for the frames (based of measurements from the plans) and to plan the stringers which I will attach after I figure out how. Anyone help with posting two excel spreadsheets, it says they are too big or the wrong file type??


    Epoxy would be close to 70litres, but I have built: the rudder, forward hatch, laminated all the deck/cabin support beams, stem, bowsprit, gaff, boom, mast bottom top (middle will be an alloy tube).

    Here are two photo's of the first side all sanded after fairing. I may do little bits more if I have left over filler from the other side but we will see.



    And looking along the hull towards the transom:
    Last edited by Quest; 07-11-2017 at 11:59 PM.

  32. #207
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    I have still been moving along, all IT issues now fixed I hope.

    Got a fibreglass tube for the drive shaft to go through in the keel. 50mm external diameter:



    First was to mark and drill holes through the cross pieces and bottom. Took the leap of faith and will see how it turns out as the keel gets built. 10mm holes up the front and where the keel will be, 8mm down the back which pass each side of the stern tube inside the keel.



    Also made up a template of the keel box I am thinking of, steel with lead ingots inside:



    This is a photo looking down after the stem cap was finished (see next post). Don't worry about the lean on the rods down the back. The front one is 10mm rod in 10mm hole and stands up well, the others are 8mm in 10mm holes so move around a lot. They were just standing there so I could have a look.

    Last edited by Quest; 07-12-2017 at 12:03 AM.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  33. #208
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    Then came the stem cap. Three layers of 8mm hardwood 90mm wide to fully cover the ply hull/stem joins. Broke the first one bending it on, thanks to the forum I tried hot water and a rag where the bend was going to be and worked a treat. Wife was wondering why I went to the shed with her electric jug from the kitchen but sprung me later. One layer at a time, more photos on the blog if you want more details.

    Third layer in place:






    Finished product sanded and trimmed:




    Close up. note the hardwood supports under the first layer, and cut out at the back to incorporate into solid keel:



    Hull, cap join filled and sanded:



    From the front, I'm thinking of running a router down the sides to curve it a bit:



    I have ordered a stack of 150mm wide x 75mm high by 3600mm long Kwila for the keel. Once that arrives you should see more progress.
    Last edited by Quest; 07-12-2017 at 12:05 AM.
    Quest

    Slowly finishing the last few bits on the Welsford Sundowner "Overkill", then learn to sail it.

    Hobart Wooden Boat Festival 2017, or maybe 2019ish didn't happen. One day!

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...undowner-build
    http://sundownerbuild.blogspot.com.au/

  34. #209
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    From the front, I'm thinking of running a router down the sides to curve it a bit:
    Would look good. Perhaps leave it square for the first 200mm at the top (deck end) of the stem?

    Great work as usual Mal!!
    Larks

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    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

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  35. #210
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    Default Re: Welsford Sundowner build

    It'll make the paint stay on a bit easier too. Things are getting pretty editing now.
    im flat on my bck in hospital in Peru with altitude sickness so this holiday has been totally unproductive

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