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Thread: Who's up to the challenge?

  1. #1
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    Question

    Ok boat gurus, here's one for ya - a boat that is a workhorse, but has at least pleasing lines.

    The challenge is this:

    Recommend a powerboat (with powersource) that

    - is easily trailerable
    - shallow draft (some river running, must draw no more than 18 inches fully loaded)
    - can be used as an overnighter for one, a day cruiser for up to four
    - inboard preferred, but would probably require skeg
    - will plane but has good slow speed manueverability (auxillary outboard ok)
    - no need to go faster than about 15-20 knots
    - VERY fuel efficient at all speeds, would sacrifice speed for efficiency
    - will handle all inland water and nearshore bigwater conditions
    - open rear deck for cargo/activities (fishing, crab pots, tender boat for four person duck hunting party - including dekes and two layout boats)
    - good forward visibility from helm
    - can be pulled with v8 Dakota sized vehicle
    - +or- 150 mile range
    - construction is solid and easily repairable

    So how about it? Does this boat exist? If you have an idea, let's hear it!

    Chris

  2. #2
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    Exclamation

    Amendment to fully loaded draft (typo in previous post)

    hull draft must be no more than 12" loaded

    Not making it any easier, am I?

  3. #3
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    Next week I'm starting a Honker by Sam Devlin, you can go to www.devlinboat.com and check it out.

    It may not meet all your specs but it hits most of them. I'm going to build it as intended with a removable pilothouse, I think thats a design feature that will become very popular on boats in this size range.

    As far as power goes I'm going to look into a 4 stroke Tohatsu, I'm a big Honda fan usually, but have been hearing good things about these Tohatsu's(sp) so I may give one a try.

    This is my second Devlin boat, I built a Cackler a few years ago and it went together very well, it exceeded all my expectations so this winter I'm back with another Devlin design.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    Skillet1927,

    As comprehensive as your description is, you may want to elaborate on "river running," and a few other points. When I saw that, I thought jet-drive, but I don't know enough about their performance in "nearshore bigwater" to be comfortable recommending them for use outside the bar. As for "pleasing lines," some folks like the look of garveys/jonboats, but some do not. What sort of shapes are pleasing to your eye? With respect to use as an "overnighter," are you talking about camping, or true accomodations? Lastly (and I'm sure I'm missing something), what specifically do you require of a boat that has to support the layout boats for your decoys?

    Below is an option, an outboard though, and plans are available from the WoodenBoat Store. You might also want to consider an Atkin Seabright Skiff with a tunnel to protect the prop (it's an inboard). Sorry, no link for that one.



    19' Ben Garvey
    Fine boatyard skiff or small harbor ferry. Construction is plywood planking over bulkheads.
    See Boat Design Quarterly #9 for a design commentary.

    LOA - 19'
    LWL - 14' 3"
    Beam - 6' 11"
    Draft - 6"
    Displ. - 810 lbs.
    Construction: Plywood planking over bulkheads
    Skill level: Basic

    EDIT: I forgot the power source. My thoughts are the same as Mike's above; a four-stroke outboard (if you opt for an outboard design).

    [ 12-07-2002, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Wiley Baggins ]

  5. #5
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    You are describing my current object of obsession, John Atkin's Ninigret.

    LOA 22' 1/4"
    LWL 20' 0"
    Beam 6' 8"
    Draft 1' 0"
    Power 30-50 HP outboard, in a covered well.
    Cuddy with V-berth and head, removable canvas cover.

    Construction is 3/8" ply over sawn frames.

    Plans from: http://www.by-the-sea.com/atkin&co/index.html





    I'm gonna build me one, someday.

    Another boat that meets the inboard/shallow draft part of your criteria better is Wm. Atkin's 19' tunnel hulled "Rescue Minor". I'll look for a picture.

    [ 12-07-2002, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: John Bell ]

  6. #6
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    Tom Lathrops Blue Jacket 24. Very nice. fits every detail of your description.

  7. #7
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    Living a beautiful life... FREE FREE AT LAST!!
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    Im probably plain way of tack as usual but I saw work boat and thought instantly of this...



    Noyo Trawler at...

    CHARACTERISTICS
    Length overall 24'-1"
    Length waterline 22'-0"
    Beam 8'-0"
    Hull draft 27"
    Displacement 5532 lbs.
    Hull weight (approx.) 1600 lbs.
    Hull depth 6'-9"
    Freeboard forward 5'-0"
    Freeboard aft 3'-2"
    Height overall (without mast) 9'-9"
    Headroom 6'-1"
    Fuel capacity 80 gals.
    Hold volume (approx.) 140 cu. ft.
    Sail area 24 sq. ft.
    Sleeping accommodations 2
    Hull type: Semi-displacement, hard chine hull with practical cruising speed of 7 to 8 knots, and a maximum hull speed of approx. 9 knots. Bottom design features bulbous forefoot with a reverse curve at the chine. Double diagonally planked to total thickness of 1/2" (3/4" optional). Topsides planked with sheet plywood to a total thickness of 3/8" (1/2" optional). Carvel planking or other conventional types are optional but not detailed in the plans.
    Power: Single centrally mounted diesel or gasoline inboard; 10 shp for 7 knot cruising speed, however, 20 -25 shp advised where wind and sea conditions are against the vessel. Engines rated over 35 shp not recommended. Total engine and gear should be 600 lbs. plus or minus 10%. Trailer: Designed for use with Glen-L Series 6000 boat trailer plans.

    .................................................

    Doesnt fit the bill?? sigh shame really of course you could always go to something like this...



    Double Eagle at...

    CHARACTERISTICS
    Length overall 23'-0"
    Length waterline 20'-8"
    Beam 7'-11"
    Draft (inboard version) 2'-5"
    Draft (outboard & I/O version) 1'-6"
    Displacement 4200 lbs.
    Hull weight (approx.) 1200 lbs.
    Hull depth 4'-11"
    Freeboard forward 3'-8"
    Freeboard aft 2'-3"
    Height overall 9'-2"
    Headroom (cabin-approx.) 4'-9"
    Headroom (shelter top-approx.) 6'-3"
    Cockpit size 13'-0" x 7'-0"
    Cockpit depth 29" to 33"
    Fuel capacity (inboard) Alum. 76 gals., Plywood 64 gals.
    Fuel capacity (I/O) Alum. 82 gals., Plywood 68 gals.
    Fuel capacity (outboard) Alum. 88 gals., Plywood 66 gals.
    Hull type: Hard chine, vee bottom with skeg, developed for sheet plywood or aluminum.
    Power: Single inboard engine to 875 lbs., or single I/O engine from 400 to 600 lbs., or long shaft outboard (single or twin) from 200 to 325 lbs.
    Trailer: Designed for use with Glen-L Series 3800 boat trailer plans

    mmmmm will keep lookin and see what comes along!

    Take it easy
    Shane
    .................................................. ...................
    Nil illegitimi carborundum = Never let the bastards wear you down

  8. #8
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    Another outboard powered boat, but still very much along the lines of what you seem to need.

    Jiffy V-22




  9. #9
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    OK, I'll take the challenge. Two designs by William (or may have been John) Atkin come to mind:

    "Russel R." 22' x 6' x not much, basically a long narrow flat-bottomed outboard skiff. This gets you 18 mph with 15 HP and excellent fuel efficiency if you use a 4-stroke motor. The motor is in a covered well, there's lots of room, it's drawn with a folding canvas shelter, but it would be very simple to put in spartan overnight accomodations for one. Weakest point is seaworthiness; I'd watch the weather before taking her out on big water. She's drawn with lapstrake sides and a cross-planked bottom, but plywood woud be easier and has several advantages; very simple to build either way. "Little Effort" is a slightly larger inboard-powered version with a cuddy cabin on the plans. There's a picture at http://www.boat-links.com/Ideal/images/RussellR.gif

    The other is "Resue Minor", about 19' but wider, draws about 12" prop and all. She's a sort of Seabright Skiff with the prop in a tunnel aft, designed for plywood-on-frame construction. Power these days should probably be a 20-25 HP inboard diesel, since small inboard gas engines are mostly extinct. Again, no cabin drawn, but it would be easy to add a small cuddy. Slightly less fuel efficient (or maybe not with the diesel), slightly faster, more expensive and considerably harder to build. Strong point is extreme shallow draft and seaworthiness; Robb White, who ought to know, built one and says she's the best sea boat he's ever been in. I can't get the link inserter to work on this computer , but try http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/mbissue.html for Robb White's article.

    [ 12-08-2002, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    Thumbs up

    Thanks everybody for the input. There are quite a few boats that fit my specs, much to my surprise. Most seem to be dories or v bottoms with minimal deadrise from amidships aft.

    Mike - Good luck with the Honker. Let's have some pics and details as she goes along, as one of duck buddies has been talkin' about it forever. This might get him to shut up and start building!

    Wiley - I realized my description was rather ambiguous regarding uses that are the primary reason why I want a boat! A few clarifications:

    river running - Hanford reach of the Columbia, primarily. The water levels can fluctuate dramatically and create a different river to head up against than the one you came down. My primary concern is strength of hull and agility to avoid rocks. Also, beaching can be a bit hard on the bottom.

    nearshore bigwater - The whole of Puget Sound, open ocean salmon/bottom fishing (less than 25 miles out).

    pleasing lines - means many things to many different people, but a "workboat" look to it is far and away the handsomest in my eyes. Tugs, dories, salmon trollers, etc.

    The layout boats (they are lightweight but awkward) belong to a couple of my duck buddies. I would like to be able to take these two boats, 5-6 dozen decoys, 2 dogs, myself and three other hunters out in safety and style for a hunt. We usually have two tender boats, but that is a pain. Two guys layout while the other two drink coffee and pickup birds. Then we switch. It is a blast when we can all get together.

    A neat boat using the general hull you suggest is

    http://www.bateau.com/plans/power/GT23.php3

    John - You and I are on the same wavelength. Ninigret is a beautiful boat, lobsterboat-ish lines, and jiffy 22 was one of the first boats I came across that I liked in my search. Do you have any other pics or info on Ninigret? Along the lines of Jiffy 22, what do you think of Selway Fisher's Power 2?
    http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mc2130.htm#3

    capt. jake - I couldn't find any info on Blue Jacket 24, but am looking...

    Dingo - Both boats you suggested are a bit deep in the draft department. But I love the Noyo Trawler. If I could only find a place somewhere on this earth to make it as a fisherman, this is the boat I would use.

    Keith - still looking for more pics and info on Russel R and Rescue Minor. Russel R looks a bit like Ninigret, very handsome indeed.

    In my search I've come up with another question -
    What advantage is there to an outboard in a well as opposed to transom mounted? What benefit offsets the space consumed by the outboard-in-well setup?

    If nobody answers here, I've got my next post thread!

    Chris

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    I'd suggest you go to your local library and find as many books from Motor Boating's "Ideal Series" as possible. These have lots of really good powerboat designs by Wm. and John Atkin, father and son. These were published from the late '30 through the early '60s, and are collections of what were originaly how-to-build articles from Motor Boating magazine, (which they wrote MoToR BoatinG, actually) and have very detailed information as well as the Atkins' commentary. Interlibrary loan will work if you can't find them locally. Here's a link to a page showing which designs they contain, with some pictures as well.

    [ 12-09-2002, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  12. #12
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    Skillet,

    I'm afraid I don't have a lot more to offer about Ninigret. The pictures are scans from John Atkin's book "Practical Small Boat Designs".

    In the book, Atkin writes the boat was design for a man to use as fishing/dayboat for a man who summered in the Northeast and wintered in the Florida Keys. The boat was to be able to handle trolling for blues just off the beach in beam seas, which I gather implies that it's not a bad roller. The Keys are rife with shallows, so the draft must have been acceptable too. Atkin does comment the front cockpit (with the cover removed) makes an excellent fishing platform. The boat was reputed to make 18 mph with a 30 HP outboard, but it is capable of handling power up to about 50 HP. When I do actually build one, I'd probably put a 4-stroke 40 horse motor on her, hoping for an 15-18 mph cruise at ~3/4 throttle and a top end of 22-24 mph.

    The first time I saw one of these was in a little ad in the back of WB from an outfit called Freedom Song Boatworks in Baraboo, WI who were offering glued lapstrake versions for sale. I've been smitten ever since.

    I wasn't familiar with the Selway Fisher Power 2.2 before you brought it up. It looks to be a power dory similar to the type I see a lot of in the PNW. I'm not nearly as taken with the looks as I am with Ninigret, though.

    If rocky rivers are a problem, why not go aluminum? (Ahhhhhhh! He's been possessed by a Demon! Ahhhhhhhh!) Those big 454 powered jet boats folks tear up and down the Salmon and Snake Rivers in seem to be quite capable. They sure are scary to contemplate when you meet one halfway down a long rapid when you're in a kayak.

    [ 12-09-2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: John Bell ]

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