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Thread: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

  1. #1
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    Default Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Well Ive got some but theyre way too straight up... I mean within a mere 18inches youve gone up 2ft!! far to abrupt for my liking Id rather use up another foot or two and make the steps nice an easy to manuvoer

    So question for the hexperts on things stairs and steps...

    How do I figure the ratio?

    I have the timber cut and ready for said steps but need to know how long to make the side bits... bloody terminology escapes me just now... anyways the steps (risers?) are cut and ready... they be 27in L x 12in W x 1 1/2in T... So now given that and given the height I need to go up is 2ft what size peices do I need for the side bits? And how do I work out the spacing?

    Oh I will be making a rail from some scungy old Jarrah Ive dragged up with me from down south so thats fine I can figure that one... but this other thing has me stuffed

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Dingo View Post
    Well Ive got some but theyre way too straight up... I mean within a mere 18inches youve gone up 2ft!! far to abrupt for my liking Id rather use up another foot or two and make the steps nice an easy to manuvoer

    So question for the hexperts on things stairs and steps...

    How do I figure the ratio?

    I have the timber cut and ready for said steps but need to know how long to make the side bits... bloody terminology escapes me just now... anyways the steps (risers?) are cut and ready... they be 27in L x 12in W x 1 1/2in T... So now given that and given the height I need to go up is 2ft what size peices do I need for the side bits? And how do I work out the spacing?

    Oh I will be making a rail from some scungy old Jarrah Ive dragged up with me from down south so thats fine I can figure that one... but this other thing has me stuffed

    Cheers!
    .

    Sorry i cant understand you very well, One wants to hit around 7 inches for a rise, 7,7 and 7 is 21, Not 24,.... 8, 8 and 8 is 24 that would work if you dont mind a bit steeper but acceptable, If you want it less steep you can add an extra step and go 6,12, 18 24..

    If you have grandkids thats better if you are a big lad by yourself 8 is Ok

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    mmmmm... sorry but I fail to see the english in any of that

    Sooo Ive given the measurements... actually what I failed to give was how many steps Ive cut... 3... but can do more if needed!!!

    So we now have all the measurements and numbers I can offer... I can do as many steps as necessary to get a gentle series of steps up from one level of the place to the upper level. Im thinking either 3 or 4 steps would do because theyre large wide boards.

    Cheers Bobbys but mate I only speak Aussie or english... I did learn a smatterin of yank but Ive sorta forgotten it since I returned home... "huh!" Ive managed to keep but anyway none of them help me with this problem


    Hey!! I just noticed the "6,12,18, 24" thing... that be 6in between risers right? Well if nothing else it would sure beat the hell out of the 10in gap I presently have
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Could you put that into English?

    So you have 24" of rise and want shorter steps / risers?

    24" divided by 4 equal steps would be 6" risers. You should have a wider tread if you go that low. About 13" give or take 1" for a comfortable set of stairs. But it seems you already have your stock cut to 12".

    Sounds like you have not "run" issues , length of stairs.



    A couple of old rule of thumb are

    #1: Two risers plus one run should equal about 25 inches.

    #2: The sum of one riser and one tread should equal 17" to 18".

    Does that help you out?





    For comfort anyway that run of thumb works pretty well.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    I see someone else tried to answer.

    What's this gap your talking about?

    Stairs should have no gaps, a slight over hang or nosing of 3/4" yes but no gaps.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Dingo View Post
    mmmmm... sorry but I fail to see the english in any of that

    Sooo Ive given the measurements... actually what I failed to give was how many steps Ive cut... 3... but can do more if needed!!!

    So we now have all the measurements and numbers I can offer... I can do as many steps as necessary to get a gentle series of steps up from one level of the place to the upper level. Im thinking either 3 or 4 steps would do because theyre large wide boards.

    Cheers Bobbys but mate I only speak Aussie or english... I did learn a smatterin of yank but Ive sorta forgotten it since I returned home... "huh!" Ive managed to keep but anyway none of them help me with this problem


    Hey!! I just noticed the "6,12,18, 24" thing... that be 6in between risers right? Well if nothing else it would sure beat the hell out of the 10in gap I presently have
    .

    Do you have a framing square?.

    If you decide on 6 inches and a 12 inch step put the smaller part of the sq on 6, the longer side on 12 and mark.

    12 inches usually works with a 2by 12 or 2 2by 6s

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Check this link out,

    http://www.decks.com/Calculators/Stairs.aspx?

    You may have some other way of doing stairs down under, timber treads on" lifts" of some type that we generally don't use here in the states???

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Twice the rise (height) plus the tread (depth) should be 24-27 inches, is what I was taught. Wikipedia has drawings, wants 24", which I think of as "fast". Measure out how high, carefully compensate for the thickness of the floors, measure the run, do careful arithmetic. Two or three passes over the numbers will get you stairs within 1/16" of each other. The error should be that the bottom rise should be the largest.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Haergb
    Last edited by ChaseKenyon; 11-20-2009 at 11:08 AM. Reason: personal
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    *indian quotients.



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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Oh yeah even if you are going to have 8 by 8 rise and run(tread) that is not good if you are a modern large man with a size 9 or larger shoe or worse boot.

    ou can have a ten inch deep tread and a seven inch rise and that is good if you are carying groceries or other stuff. Itis also IMHO the minimum for grandkids safety as they will need tread depth as they learn to go up and down putting both feet on eachstair tread before the next is attempted. THis is the way kids start on stairs. Twice as many footsteps as we make.
    Even a Kitten growing into a cat does that for a while on stairs.

    Chase
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    twice the rise (height) plus the tread (depth) should be 24-27 inches, is what I was taught. Wikipedia has drawings, wants 24", which I think of as "fast". Measure out how high, carefully compensate for the thickness of the floors, measure the run, do careful arithmetic. Two or three passes over the numbers will get you stairs within 1/16" of each other. The error should be that the bottom rise should be the largest.
    well said Tom as a minimum standard of functionality.
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    GEEEEEZZZZZHHHUZZZZZZ Chase!!! Its a simple 3 step up from one level to the next... holey gwakamolie son if i tried to whack something like that in here there'd be no room to fart!!

    Okay someone hit on what I was looking for... the rule trick... I recall having seen it once many moons ago but couldnt for the life of me figure where it was...

    So an overhang between steps of 6in is acceptable? Cool... I have just drawn it onto the timber Im planing on using for the sides but it seemed that the 6in wouldnt be enough now Im okay with that factor... now to the matter of the angles to cut so it fits level on the lower floor and meets the wall and level with the floor on the second level... if you please gents!

    As to the so called rules and regs... Im in BROOME!! there aint no rules and regs!! well okay there must be but for this excersize there isnt... its my place and I'll damned well do what I want to it!!... Actually my young nephew was talking about my needing a deck up on the roof... mmm not a bad idea I thought but think the whole place should have some sort of shoring put inside if I do that so Ive shelved that idea for now and decided to do a couple of so called simple jobs first to break the woodworking drought so to speak... the steps and a wall divider first just to get whackin wood again as its been bloody ages since I touched any woodworking then onto other things!

    But crikey Chase thats not a set of simple steps old son!!

    oh and Im a big fella mate... like 5ft 6in soppin wet and weigh in at about 92lb dripping wet wear a whoppin great size 6 1/2 to 7 shoe... at the most... gotta check that as Im still loosing weight which while I felt it was a good thing awhile back is starting to consern me a tad... ah well... big burley fella me! no wukkers kooda!
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    get a couple of bloody besser blocks yer flamin wombat, they're the perfect ratio for steps.
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    We have been down this road before, go through your old posts and look up the info given when you were looking at having a kit style house erected.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    To lay out steps and find the angles involved, you'll want to use a framing square or the Australian equivalent. Ours is sixteen by twenty four inches, marked in inches a various fractions. It's good for all stair and rafter layouts.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Well ??????????????

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    Well ??????????????
    Well what?... so I flucked up... again... so??? I knew I would muck the sides up I KNEW THAT!!... and I did

    Seems I got everything right...steps fine check... sides measured as above (6in between steps) fine... put in place looks fine... but its still to bloody steep! I want to make them so its a relaxed stroll up to the next level... so its back to the drawing board for me tomorrow morning

    Bloody steps maybe I'll just make a friggin ramp and be done! nah! can just see me sliding on me date down the thing
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    At six inches between steps, you should have a tread width of about twelve inches, minimum.

    Needless to say, that's a very shallow step, one that you might use where there's no place to put a handrail. Courthouse steps come to mind.

    I'd be going for a more middling figure, say an eight inch rise with a nine or ten inch step.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    It goes against the rules of thumb but when I do shallower risers, like your 6" risers, ((((((((which you seem to want to write as the over hang , or difference instead of rise , step height)))))

    I use a wider tread, generally any steps that have a 6 3/4" and up to 7 7/8" riser :

    I use a 11" ish tread , exterior stairs two 2x6 ( net 5 1/2" wide) plus the 3/16 ish ((((((( 16d common galv. nail as a spacer between boards)))))))

    If the decking is 5/4 or 2 by 4 wide (net 3 1/2" wide two gaps = 10 3/4" wide tread).

    But any thing with a riser of 6 5/8" , I add a third, in the case of the 2x6 tread , tread . If the treads are 2x4's I add a fourth board , or plank as you guys like to call them.

    That added width of tread is what you need maybe to make your stair feel right to you.

    Look at Jack's thread , >>>>>> although it runs the gambit of WBF bilge hate / harassment postings, to WBF helpful postings, <<<<<<< it may give you a better idea of what I'm saying.

    Either way good luck , you muddle thru this in your own good "Dinger" time

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Paul when you use those figures, are you building any bullnose/overhang into the treads?

    The reason is that I'd subtract the overhang from the width to get the true tread width for layout purposes.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post

    Paul when you use those figures, are you building any bullnose/overhang into the treads?

    No,, I figured the builder would do that for lay out purposes , my numbers are the tread width , the stair jacks would need to be cut accordingly , depending on the riser thickness , if they is a riser / board to close the stair opening between the under side of the tread to the top of the tread below.

    One of the issues we have on these type threads is our ( the builders here) use of construction terms , we all commonly use but non- builders rarely use them , code issues that different areas have , a little less now days with the IRC 2006 being used here in the USA. And how we each phrase things , I'm not very good at getting all the steps in the right order when I type these posts. And then you add a Aussie asking a question , and thier slightly different use of terms , and like Dingers using a 4 by timber for a tread we (generally) don't do that. Some times yes, but not as a rule.

    More than likely he has a "open" stair so all in all it's amazing any one understands even parts of this stuff

    The reason is that I'd subtract the overhang from the width to get the true tread width for layout purposes.
    I generally use a 3/4" "Nosing " as per IRC 2006.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    This shows a typical stair with two 2x6 in this case Trex's treads the shadow line is the 3/4" nosing . 1x8 ish , cut to fit , stair riser boards. etc.



    Slightly different guard rail design ,



    This ones the 3ea. 2x4 type tread. Same type riser WRC 1x8 ish cut to fit.

    These would be typical code legal stairs in this area.

    7 1/2" ish risers with 11" ish treads.

    Dinger would think these where "to steep" if the ones he's built feel to steep to him.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Nice looking steps, Paul. I'll defer to my illustrious colleague in this matter and bow out so not to add confusion to good advice.

    BTW, are we talking inches or metric. How big is a Metric framing square, anyway? I mean, I'm hearing inches, but I thought that we were the last hold-outs. Keepers of the Old Ways, so to speak.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    When you get good at it build 12 and send them to your Dad in Connecticut aka- The King of Drunk Dialing

    Doug

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post

    Nice looking steps, Paul. I'll defer to my illustrious colleague in this matter and bow out so not to add confusion to good advice.


    Thanks Jim but I'd say chime in any time, plenty of room in this shark tank AKA the Bilge!


    BTW, are we talking inches or metric. How big is a Metric framing square, anyway? I mean, I'm hearing inches, but I thought that we were the last hold-outs. Keepers of the Old Ways, so to speak.
    I'm assuming Dinger was talking inches , thats what he typed in , that what I used for all my references.

    I think much of the world "swings both ways" I know the Canadians do.

    They'd like us to think they have a "better way" but they all use feet and inches at times. One , of many, "mysteries" that I hope, some day, are explained

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    I think much of the world "swings both ways" I know the Canadians do.


    Doug

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by botebum View Post


    Doug
    Sort of nice double , (how do you spell it) , on-tonn -tray eh

    I think most people either mis-read or don't understand some of my humor.

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    I think we're on the same page. Scary, huh?

    Doug

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by botebum View Post
    When you get good at it build 12 and send them to your Dad in Connecticut aka- The King of Drunk Dialing

    Doug
    Its been so long since Ive experienced it Id forgotten how good at it they are!!! Actually just quietly mum was the QUEEN of it Dad just rotated until he found an empty phone

    ah the steps... okay looks like Im gonna have to make them steep eh? ah well that shouldnt be too difficult methinks... well actually it wont be cause Ive pretty much got all the peices now... I was thinkin of tossing the two sides and trying to make them less steep but appears I cant do it... so Im over it and will bang this thing together... after I get back from the beach that is!!
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    I half expected to get a call tonight blasting me for being a prick and a Yankee Traitor

    Doug

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Jim mate... I havent finished...

    1) the step or tread or whatever theyre called are 12in wide x 27in long x 1 1/2in thick... I have cut 3 steps and can cut more if needed

    2) the gap between each step as marked onto the side boards is PRESENTLY 6in.

    3) there will be a rail... Jarrah which I still have to make but wont do so till the steps are in place

    4) Its not huge and it shouldnt be difficult... I know this

    5) Trouble is the layout seems to give me a sharp series of steps in other words it rises to quickly... if I wanted that Id leave the ones Ive already got in place and not bother... but I am after a series of steps that is gradual and therefore more manouverable by anyone child or adult drunk or sober without them going arseovertit onto the concrete..

    This gradual step is what Im trying to achieve... I dont know how else to explain it other than a gradual series of gentle steps from one level to the next

    Thanks by the way for all your help with this mate... seriously all of you thanks
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Shane, if you are going six inches high and tweve inches wide they should be very gradual indeed, even if you allow an inch or two overlap. The building code allows steps to be 240mm up to 355mm wide, but they are in practice usually between 250 and 300mm wide. The risers can be from 115mm to 190mm high but are usually 150mm to 190mm high.
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Steps will feel "wrong" if you don't stick close to the formula: twice the rise plus the tread should equal 25. Since you're liking a 6 inch rise double it (12) then subtract 12 from 25 and you have a tread width of 13.

    But don't start with 6 unless the total rise is a multiple of 6. More likely the total divided by the number of steps will give you some fraction, 6 1/4, say. Whatever you get use the formula, adjust the tread width accordingly and the steps will feel "right."

    Be careful at the top. There's no tread there.
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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Did the steps get done yet? The amount of time you (Son) and Jack spend wringing your hands overthinking a simple project is ledgendary. It took me a full half hour to replace the steps to the barn yesterday... OK, so sure they're not an architectural masterpiece, but it is a barn!

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    Default Re: Steps!!!! I gotta make some steps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleAgesMan View Post
    Be careful at the top. There's no tread there.
    That is important...

    Stairs are tricky,
    I use a calculator and decimals (3 places) for the rise - and maybe they'll be within an 1/8!
    When you get it all figured out - be sure that the lower edge of the stringers intersect the bottom edge of the floor joist it attaches to.

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