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  • Population implosion

    We need more people, not fewer.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...al-growth.html

    Because most demographers look ahead only to 2100, there is no consensus on exactly how quickly populations will fall after that. Over the past 100 years, the global population quadrupled, from two billion to eight billion. As long as life continues as it has — with people choosing smaller family sizes, as is now common in most of the world — then in the 22nd or 23rd century, our decline could be just as steep as our rise.
    Quadrupled in 100 years. Gosh. Who could want to retreat from such an achievement?

    Innovations and discoveries are made by people. In a world with fewer people in it, the loss of so much human potential may threaten humanity’s continued path toward better lives.
    Right, except, the population explosion didn't cause the technology. Other way around -- a productivity explosion. Like most things, it is subject to diminishing returns. Less labor is needed. What are the high numbers of people for? The economy is shedding them as fast as they can. I guess they could pick tomatoes and strawberries. For recreation, thanks our gigantic population producing our miraculous technology, we'll have synthetic nature, available to the poorest:

    It is likely that we shall want to apply our technology to the creation of artificial environments. It may be possible to create environments that are evocative of other environments in other times and places. It is possible that, by manipulating memory through the rewriting of history, environments will come to have new meaning. Finally, we may want to create proxy environments by means of substitution and simulation. In order to create substitutes, we must endow new objects with significance by means of advertising and by social practice. Sophistication about differentiation will become very important for appreciating the substitute environments. We may simulate the environment by means of photographs, recordings, models, and perhaps even manipulations in the brain. What we experience in natural environments may actually be more controllable than we imagine. Artificial prairies and wildernesses have been created, and there is no reason to believe that these artificial environments need be unsatisfactory for those who experience them.

    What's Wrong with Plastic Trees?

    Science
    2 Feb 1973
    Vol 179, Issue 4072

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/...e.179.4072.446 [h=1]What's Wrong with Plastic Trees?
    Say it slowly, and see how ridiculous this sounds: "In a world with fewer people in it, the loss of so much human potential may threaten humanity’s continued path toward better lives." A path through the plastic trees.

    Sustained below-replacement fertility will mean tens of billions of lives not lived over the next few centuries — many lives that could have been wonderful for the people who would have lived them and by your standards, too.

    Perhaps that loss doesn’t trouble you.
    I would sooner be troubled about the dead than about the never-born.

    It would be tempting to welcome depopulation as a boon to the environment. But the pace of depopulation will be too slow for our most pressing problems. It will not replace the need for urgent action on climate, land use, biodiversity, pollution and other environmental challenges.
    Depopulation alone wouldn't. Who's saying it would? Is it the contention that a larger population replaces "the need for urgent action"?





    Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you make them yours by acting on their behalf.

    Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny (2017)​

  • #2
    "In a world with fewer people in it, the loss of so much human potential may threaten humanity’s continued path toward better lives."
    This is wrong on so many levels.

    First because as Ozzy points out population growth is a consequence, and not a cause of technological development.

    Second, innovation doesn't end unless all humans are gone. It may slow down, but then you need less of it when every year the slices gets naturally bigger without having to grow the pie.

    Then there is the eternal growth fallacy. AKA, I know it is a bubble but there are profits to be made and I'll be out before it bursts.

    Worst of all, it implies that only future technological development can lead to "better lives". This means that our lives, and the lives of everyone who has ever lived, are not good enough, nor can they be fixed within our lifetimes.

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    • #3
      Plastic trees..OMG no! Made out of fossil fuel, manufactured in huge factories consuming electricity and fresh water to cool the molds?worse than EV’s for the environment.

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      • #4
        Celophane flowers, OTOH...

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        • #5
          i'll need all of you to report to the soylent green factory..... we have a job for you.

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          • #6
            hmm, so much potential meat.

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            • #7
              Depopulation is a result of development, wealthy, healthy educated people with access to medical advice and procedures have fewer children, especially if that circumstance applies to women. But such people also consume more resources per head……..
              But I doubt a population implosion is going to help re climate change.

              I'm sure economists have an opinion, thousands of opinions, they always do

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              • #8
                My gut reaction is that as AI etc take over more jobs, there will be fewer human jobs. Ergo, not a pressing need for more people straining the planet's resources.

                Plus,. there will be the inevitable population upsurge again as we populate the Solar System.

                PS: The environment will improve as a beneficial corollary to population decrease.
                Gerard>
                Albuquerque, NM

                Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

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                • #9
                  I've just had the pleasure of a month in Japan, interesting, its very noticeably "greyer" than anywhere else I've been. I read in this mornings browsing that over 1/3 have passed their 65th birthday, and that 20% of their population is over 80. Their reproduction rate is only 1.3 per woman, 2. being break even.

                  Japan has traditionally been highly xenophobic, but I was told that there are moves to attract young couples from outside the country. A big change for Japan.

                  Other countries, including my own country of New Zealand, are only maintaining the population growth that our economies are dependent upon by taking in migrants. But as the standard of living in the migration source countries improves, good quality migrants, that being educated and of the best age group, get harder to attract.

                  I wrote to our minister of finance a while back asking "what do you think an economy based upon a gradually reducing population will look like?". I got an answer that indicated that the minister was aware of the projections, but he said that it was not going to be a problem for some decades to come.
                  Fair enough, By then it wouldnt be his problem.

                  John Welsford
                  An expert is but a beginner with experience.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gerarddm
                    My gut reaction is that as AI etc take over more jobs, there will be fewer human jobs. Ergo, not a pressing need for more people straining the planet's resources.

                    Plus,. there will be the inevitable population upsurge again as we populate the Solar System.

                    PS: The environment will improve as a beneficial corollary to population decrease.
                    let me know when AI can fix your toilet, hang your Sheetrock.or fix an airplane to flight worthy condition. Oh, and let me know when you’re going out to populate the solar system, that sounds cool!

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                    • #11
                      Plastic trees - there will be lots of plastic to mine from landfill. All the organic matter will be gone and the plastic that remains will largely have been protected from UV.

                      2.1 kids is the replacement rate - depending on standards of living it can be 3.5 - some kids will die before they get to child breeding age.

                      Its pretty astonishing how quickly and how radically the population is predicted to drop.
                      I think I'd like to live in a world with only 100million people. An advanced electronic world of silent transport and almost no polluting emissions. Wild animal stocks have recovered and the sea rich with life again. No need to farm animals because there will be plenty of wild animals for such a small population.

                      However, 100million people can still start wars.....

                      image.png
                      It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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                      • #12
                        The experiment continues………………
                        I wonder what the climate will be like in say 150 years time? Of course less people means less pressure on the environment, so drastically less could mean that the planet begins to heal itself………….

                        (Refer Chernobyl: https://www.unep.org/news-and-storie...haven-wildlife

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by skuthorp
                          The experiment continues………………
                          I wonder what the climate will be like in say 150 years time? Of course less people means less pressure on the environment, so drastically less could mean that the planet begins to heal itself………….

                          (Refer Chernobyl: https://www.unep.org/news-and-storie...haven-wildlife
                          Gaia
                          It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A wonderful example of extrapolation way beyond the data.
                            I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

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                            • #15
                              Has anyone included the effects of climate change in these population projections? I get the impression this one does not.

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