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CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union HELP!

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  • CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union HELP!

    OK, Spin, help me out. I’ve read 20 pages of the history of Finland between, very approximately, 1900 and 1945, with a concentration between 1930 and 32 +/- a bit. Way complicated. I had no idea.

    The Lapua movement… I know of the Lapua’ brand’ cartridge, but knew nothing of either the City or the political movement. Is there a connection between the political movement and the cartridge, or is that just a random event – the firm being located in Lapua?

    And Finland a Grand Duchy of Russia? A Swedish Peoples Party, Agrarian Union, Patriotic People's Party... Boundaries that ‘moved’? Land that was leased to the Soviet Union. And Fighting the Russians, the Soviets, with the Germans, against the Germans – 20 pages and my head was spinning.

    Help me Spin, you're my only hope! Thank you!

    The book The Breakdown of Democratic Regimes edited by Linz and Stepan. The Finland piece was written by Risto Alapuro and Erik Allardt
    "Congress doesn't regulate Wall Street, Wall Street regulates Congress."

    MAKE WAY! MAKE WAY! "I have heard of some kind of men that put quarrels purposely on others."

    As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

    International Financial Conspirator, Collaborator, Gun Runner, Ace Philosopher-King and all-around smartie pants

  • #2
    Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

    Have a talk to Hemlaga as well………..

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

      Söner av et folk, som blött

      Sons of a people, that has bled
      Ragnar B.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

        Bump
        "Congress doesn't regulate Wall Street, Wall Street regulates Congress."

        MAKE WAY! MAKE WAY! "I have heard of some kind of men that put quarrels purposely on others."

        As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

        International Financial Conspirator, Collaborator, Gun Runner, Ace Philosopher-King and all-around smartie pants

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

          Finnish history is complicated and bloody to say the least.



          I suppose you didn't come as far as the attempted putch in the spring of 1918 soon after independence when the right wing tried to install a surplus prince of a German surplus royal house as king in Finland while abandoning general suffrage and re-instating the rights of the nobility. Friedrich Karl von Hessen was fortunately clever and sensible and overall a decent bloke and when he realized that Finland was already legally a republic with general suffrage and that only a minority supported the kingdom and most citizens didn't even know about the kingdom he refused the crown and saved us from another bloody civil war.
          Skyddskåren (the home guard) from Österbotten, my home region which had been the backbone of the pro-independence white army in the recent civil war and which at the time was guarding Helsinki openly declared that they had fought for a democratic republic and if they didn't get a democratic republic they were ready to fight another war. We have a lot to thank Friedrich Karl for.



          Lapua is a small town some 100 km east from where I live. The cartridge factory is situated there and got it's name from the place.

          The farmland around Lapua or Lappo as we Swedes call it is vary fertile and timber grows tall and straight in the woods. Already in medieval times the farms were very large and villages were far apart each claiming huge areas of semi-wilderness as village commons. In 1494 the Swedish government forbade the dividing of farms between heirs into smaller holdings. The idea being to keep the farms large enough to pay taxes. Apparently the government at the time was dominated by people from certain parishes in Sweden where this was a very local problem. In Lapua and surrounding parishes the law instead led to each farm becoming almost a small manor. A class of very rich farmers emerged. Though it gradually became possible to divide farms between heirs from the 18th century and onwards there were ample opportunities to clear new farmland as the ancient village commons had been divided between farms. Actually the already huge and rich farms only became larger and wealthier as more land was cleared at a faster rate than the farms were divided. Still there was prime woodland galore so farmers could earn significant money by logging and rafting the logs down Lapuanjoki either to Nykarleby at the river mouth or to be transported only a short distance up the coast to Jakobstad which had several large shipyards and a huge fleet of ships in the timber trade and later a huge steam sawmill where timber was loaded onto foreign iron ships.
          Anyway that class of hugely rich farmers in Lapua wiewed all forms of socialism even the most moderate social democrats as a threat and somehow allied to the Russian communists whom had only recently been expelled and who had threatened to take the and away from the farmers. In that climate the facist seeds grew and became the Lapua movement. Still to this day people in that area tend to be right leaning.
          Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

            Originally posted by heimlaga;[URL="tel:6865418"
            6865418[/URL]]Finnish history is complicated and bloody to say the least.



            I suppose you didn't come as far as the attempted putch in the spring of 1918 soon after independence when the right wing tried to install a surplus prince of a German surplus royal house as king in Finland while abandoning general suffrage and re-instating the rights of the nobility. Friedrich Karl von Hessen was fortunately clever and sensible and overall a decent bloke and when he realized that Finland was already legally a republic with general suffrage and that only a minority supported the kingdom and most citizens didn't even know about the kingdom he refused the crown and saved us from another bloody civil war.
            Skyddskåren (the home guard) from Österbotten, my home region which had been the backbone of the pro-independence white army in the recent civil war and which at the time was guarding Helsinki openly declared that they had fought for a democratic republic and if they didn't get a democratic republic they were ready to fight another war. We have a lot to thank Friedrich Karl for.



            Lapua is a small town some 100 km east from where I live. The cartridge factory is situated there and got it's name from the place.

            The farmland around Lapua or Lappo as we Swedes call it is vary fertile and timber grows tall and straight in the woods. Already in medieval times the farms were very large and villages were far apart each claiming huge areas of semi-wilderness as village commons. In 1494 the Swedish government forbade the dividing of farms between heirs into smaller holdings. The idea being to keep the farms large enough to pay taxes. Apparently the government at the time was dominated by people from certain parishes in Sweden where this was a very local problem. In Lapua and surrounding parishes the law instead led to each farm becoming almost a small manor. A class of very rich farmers emerged. Though it gradually became possible to divide farms between heirs from the 18th century and onwards there were ample opportunities to clear new farmland as the ancient village commons had been divided between farms. Actually the already huge and rich farms only became larger and wealthier as more land was cleared at a faster rate than the farms were divided. Still there was prime woodland galore so farmers could earn significant money by logging and rafting the logs down Lapuanjoki either to Nykarleby at the river mouth or to be transported only a short distance up the coast to Jakobstad which had several large shipyards and a huge fleet of ships in the timber trade and later a huge steam sawmill where timber was loaded onto foreign iron ships.
            Anyway that class of hugely rich farmers in Lapua wiewed all forms of socialism even the most moderate social democrats as a threat and somehow allied to the Russian communists whom had only recently been expelled and who had threatened to take the and away from the farmers. In that climate the facist seeds grew and became the Lapua movement. Still to this day people in that area tend to be right leaning.
            This is an excellent and detailed answer to Ed.

            Kiitos tästä hyvästä vastauksesta, Heimlaga.
            Choose wisely -Treat kindly...
            A secret to a good marriage is to have a quick mind and a slow mouth...
            sigpic
            S/V ORCA 38' Herreshoff Ketch

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

              Finland gradually became part of the Swedish kingdom as it was formed. Much of what happened is forgotten and lost in the mist of prehistory. Gradually the coast which was apparently wiewed as a badland by the not very seafaring Finns was settled by Swedes. When and how that happened is hard to tell but it seems there were several waves of settlers from the 9th up to the 13th century. Some may have been lesser chieftains voting with their feet as the kingdom grew. Some may have been escaped slaves. Many were landless farmer's sons and daughters looking for new land. Swedes and Finns traded and cooperated generally dealt with each others as equals and neighbours. Sometimes they fought court battes over the ownership of this or that field large enough to harvest half a barrel of rye. Christianity spread from the coast even further inland and further north. A new Swedish feudal nobility emerged in some small parts of the country but mostly farmers owned their land.
              From the 13th century onwards there were occasional wars with the Russians and after the rather civilized republic of Novgorod was conquered by the Moskali in 1478 wars grew more violent and more frequent. I don't think a single generation of Finns escaped war against the Russians between 1478 and 1809. from the late 16th century and up to the 1720-ies Sweden was pretty much a military dictatorship with endless wars eating up all the resources of the country until society pretty much fell apart. The starvation on the 1690-ies and the Russian occupation 1714-21 reduced all of Finland to a land of starving war widows.
              Then it got better and in the Swedish kingdom the 18th and early 19th century was really an age of progress. The population grew and trade flourished and farming improved. Plenty of new farms were settled. Politics were chaotic though.

              In 1808 Russia invaded and the incompetent government in Stockholm did very little to stop them. The army was largely led by a bunch of noble fools. Some of whom actually were attracted by the prospect of living in the very rigidly feudal Russia with serfdom and slavery providing free labour for the nobility. However ordinary people took up arms against the invaders. Land owning respectable farmers and free tradesmen had no interest in becoming reduced to serfs and slaves. The Russian army was very shocked by the resistance from the independent minded people in Finland. The Russian nobility had never though of their serfs as humans with an ability to think nor do anything on their own accord and here they met farmers who treated them like equals. Farmers who when insulted or misstreated picked officers off their horses with well aimed bullets shot from locally made riffles. Farmers and tradesmen who set up well organized guerillas and wrecked havoc with Russian supply lines. Something had to be done and as the current czar was very modern minded it was agreed that Finland could keep it's Swedish laws and become an autonomous part of Russia with civic rights and independent courts and an elected parlament and even it's own navy and army though the highest officers were usually Russians.

              In 1898 the very nationalistic and conservatve leadership in Russia appointed Nikolaj Bobrikov general governor in Finland. His job was to dismantle the authonomy and turn the people of Finland into full fledged Russian whatever it would take. This met resistance of cause and 20 years later after plenty of bloodshed some of it totally unnecsessary we were independent.
              Last edited by heimlaga; 06-09-2023, 03:01 PM.
              Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                Russia seems to have a habit of thinking that all it's neighbors want to be them....
                Russia also seems to have a habit of being smacked back for these thoughts.
                I guess the same could be said of the USA, Britain, Germany, Portugal, China, and Spain.... Maybe a few more....
                Me, myself, I.... I don't want anyone to be me. I don't want to subjugate others to the horrors that I experience every day. I also don't want to share the joy, and lovelyness that I experience every day. I'm greedy that way.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                  Finlandia, Op. 26 is a symphonic poem by the Finnish composer Jean Sibelius. The first version was written in 1899, and it was revised in 1900. The piece was...
                  "Because we are not divine, we must jettison the many burdens we cannot bear."

                  Mark Helprin, 2017

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                    STUNNING! I will never hear Finlandia again as a blank canvas!

                    And the added explanatory Finnish history. Thank you. Some things had to be compressed to fit that into 20 pages.

                    Thank you!
                    "Congress doesn't regulate Wall Street, Wall Street regulates Congress."

                    MAKE WAY! MAKE WAY! "I have heard of some kind of men that put quarrels purposely on others."

                    As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

                    International Financial Conspirator, Collaborator, Gun Runner, Ace Philosopher-King and all-around smartie pants

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                      blank canvas

                      Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                        As someone used to viewing Finland as the heros in WW2 it took some getting used to seeing the swastika/ axis identification on their aircraft etc... ( this was many years ago before understanding the enemy in the winter war of course)
                        So now in the forefront of media we have these promos for the film Sisu and what do we have.. Germans as the enemy of the Finnish hero.
                        Rather than google it , which is no fun. What is a real perspective on that switch?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                          To understand it one must understand the contacks between Finland and Germany from the 1910-s and onwards.
                          Before the first world war Germany was an important trading partner. Quite a few German merchants had settled in southern Finland over the centuries. As Russian oppression hardened from 1914 and onwards the independence minded in Finland started looking to Germany for help. During the first world war Germany trained some 2000 young men (so called jääkärit) from Finland to become officers in the planned rising. They supplied a shipload of weapons which was smuggled in with ssEquity in late 1917. They supplied an unknown amound of weapons and sabotage eqipment that trickled into Finland from varios sources. In excange people in Finland living close to the western border supplied German agents in Sweden with large amounts of tin and shellac originating in Russia and needed for the German war effort. In early 1918 German troups intervened in southern Finland and helped the white army take control of the country.
                          The Germans were wiewed as old friends. German was the first foreign language taught in schools.

                          As nazism rose in Germany it was by most people wiewed with a bit of scepticism. A bit like your favourite brother and best friend getting involved in some business which you don't really understand but which you suspect may put him and the entire family in trouble. Of cause there were some very active nazis in Finland too for instance the Lapua movement but they were after all a small minority though a very loud one.
                          That the direct cause of the Winter War was a secret clause in a treaty between Soviet and Nazi Germany (Molotoff Ribbentrop treaty) was not known in Finland at the time.
                          After the Winter War Finland was desperately looking for allies. Everybody saw that all hell was loose. A neutral alliance with Sweden fell trough because of pressure from the great powers. Norway and Denmark were already occupied by the nazis. Estonia was occupied by the Soviet union. It was very obvious that the Soviet Union was preparing for another invasion attempt.
                          The Finnish military led by the German trained men in high command was secretly preparing for an alliance with Germany. Without parlamentary concent. Later on trhey got political concent. The whole thing is very murky and it is impossible to know who made what decision. Anyway when Germany attacked the Soviet Union Finland was seen as an ally of Germany and attacked by the Soviet. Finland went into alliance with Germany.
                          The continuation war was fought with German support.
                          However Finland always kept to itself and tried to keep Germany at arm's lenght. For instance the Finish army even had it's officially appointed Field Rabbi for it's jewish soldiers. Jews were not prosecuted nor harassed except a few cases where the perpetrators swiftly ended up in court. When it became known that Finnish nazis has collected a group of jews and sent them to extinction in Germany our highest commander Mannerheim immediately called Hitler's office and declared that the Finnish jews must be returned alive or Finland will retaliate. On the other hand Soviet prisoners of war of jewish decent was regularly deported for extermination.
                          The people was ambiguous and so was politics. However all agreed that we needed the German weapons.

                          After the armistice in 1944 when Soviet demanded that Finland would drive out the german troops from Lapland it initially went peacefuly. Germans retreating on good order and the Finnish army following behind peacefully. However it got more and more violent as Germans started destroying everything they could lay their hands on and the Soviet demanded that the Finnish army attac the Germans to hasten the retreat. Which of the two started first and caused the other is much debated.
                          Last edited by heimlaga; 06-11-2023, 09:25 AM.
                          Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                            By the way the Finnish air force used the swastika as it's emblem since 1918. A private aircraft which was donated by a wealthy man in Sweden carried that identification emblem when it landed on the ice in Vasa and was turned over to the military. It was used for reconnoicance and became the first plane in our air force. The swastika ended up becoming the emblem of the Finnish air force when it was formed after the civil war.
                            At a time when Adolf Hitler was carrying a hod on construction sites in Bayern and when his political wiews were all about supporting the Jewish communist wannabee dictator Eugen Levine.
                            Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: CQ Spin! Finland, Lapau, movement, Russia, Germany, Grand Duchy, Soviet Union H

                              I'm sure there are many others following along. Thank you!

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