If the political parties are two 'evils'

[John Smith]

Isn't the lesser evil the better choice?

[Keith Wilson]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Yes.

Angels don't run for office, nor work for political parties.

[Nicholas Carey]

Isn't the lesser evil the better choice?

No The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Best to stay home and respect your conscience.

[Never understood that mindset]

[David W Pratt]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Personally, I find it depressing that neither party seems able to field a more attractive candidate.

[David G]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Personally, I find it depressing that neither party seems able to field a more attractive candidate.

When things go downhill in an economy/society/culture... they tend to go downhill across the board. There are few, if any, aspects of life that are unaffected. But the degree of degradation is variable, according to other factors.

For instance - neither political party has been immune to the rising tide of corruption and dysfunction caused by the corrosive effects of gerrymandering, deliberate demonization and dismantling of unions, dark money, voter suppression, and cronyism. Though one party as almost universally embraced the trend, and the other has more commonly resisted it.

The result of this trend is cynicism, disengagement, increasing disparities in wealth/income, a rise in extremism and conspiracy theories, and a reduction in social mobility (The American Dream) --

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/

Why economic inequality matters

The rise in economic inequality in the U.S. is tied to several factors. These include, in no particular order, technological change, globalization, the decline of unions and the eroding value of the minimum wage. Whatever the causes, the uninterrupted increase in inequality since 1980 has caused concern among members of the public, researchers, policymakers and politicians.

One reason for the concern is that people in the lower rungs of the economic ladder may experience diminished economic opportunity and mobility in the face of rising inequality, a phenomenon referred to as The Great Gatsby Curve. Others have highlighted inequality’s negative impact on the political influence of the disadvantaged, on geographic segregation by income, and on economic growth itself. The matter may not be entirely settled, however, as an opposing viewpoint suggests that income inequality does not harm economic opportunity.

Alternative estimates of economic inequality

This report presents estimates of income inequality based on household income as estimated in the Current Population Survey (CPS), a survey of households conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau in partnership with the Bureau of Labor Statistics. These estimates refer to gross (pretax) income and encompass most sources of income. A key omission is the value of in-kind services received from government sources. Because income taxes are progressive and in-kind services also serve to boost the economic wellbeing of (poorer) recipients, not accounting for these two factors could overstate the true gap in the financial resources of poorer and richer households.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) offers an alternative estimate of income inequality that accounts for federal taxes and a more comprehensive array of cash transfers and in-kind services than is possible with Current Population Survey data. The CBO finds that the Gini coefficient in the U.S. in 2016 ranged from 0.595, before accounting for any forms of taxes and transfers, to 0.423, after a full accounting of taxes and transfers. These estimates bracket the Census Bureau’s estimate of 0.481 for the Gini coefficient in 2016. By either estimate, income inequality in the U.S. is found to have increased by about 20% from 1980 to 2016 (The Gini coefficient ranges from 0 to 1, or from perfect equality to complete inequality). Findings from other researchers show the same general rise in inequality over this period regardless of accounting for in-kind transfers.

Yet another alternative is to focus on inequality in consumption, which implicitly accounts for all forms and sources of incomes, taxes and transfers. Some estimates based on consumption show that inequality in the U.S. increased by less than implied by estimates based on income, but other estimates suggest the trends based on consumption and income are similar. Empirically, consumption can be harder to measure than income.

[RFNK]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Absolutely right. The question is, is it already too late? Can America get itself out of this hole? As a nation, there's too much self-belief - America's the greatest democracy so there's simply no better way. But there is and there are many, better systems of government around the world. To be honest, I can't see the US finding a way forward. I really hope I'm wrong.

[Canoeyawl]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Isn't the lesser evil the better choice?

There's only one that's evil, the "other" may make mistakes but not deliberately to the detriment of others.

[John Smith]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Absolutely right. The question is, is it already too late? Can America get itself out of this hole? As a nation, there's too much self-belief - America's the greatest democracy so there's simply no better way. But there is and there are many, better systems of government around the world. To be honest, I can't see the US finding a way forward. I really hope I'm wrong.

Our system used to work pretty well, I think. It's undermined by the human desire/capacity to cheat. Political parties have become teams, and people want their team to win, and they have no problem with cheating to do so. Some have more of a problem with this than others.

I remember a time when both teams believed in the good of the country. Watergate hearings were a good example of that. Republicans sought the truth, and they told Nixon he had to go. Today it's different. I don't particularly like Christie, but he seems the only Republican willing to attack Trump, if telling the truth about trump is attacking him.

Then we have the lies: Lying to get on the Supreme Court. Lying to get elected; are they upset with Santos because he lies or because he lies better than they do?

[Too Little Time]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Our system used to work pretty well, I think.

Some praise the slave owners who founded this country. In the early days the system worked pretty well for many. Poorly for an important minority.

Then we had a civil war. The system worked pretty well for many. Poorly for an important minority.

When I was about 20, their were race riots. The system worked well for many. Poorly for an important minority.

50 years later, the police shoot people for being black. Or just about any reason. The system works well for many. Poorly for an important minority.

Not much has changed. White people get privilege. Black people get the short end of the stick.

If you think the system ever worked well, you are a large part of the problem. Perhaps you should join the Republicans. I think they may have policies you endorse.

[Durnik]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

You're just as delusional as the MAGAts if you think democrats are fighting for you

this.

"www.salon.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-to-rich-donors-nothing-would-fundamentally-change-if-hes-elected/"

title says it all. since no amount of taxation will cause a fundamental change for/to the atfw, it was obviously the workers he referred to.

[David G]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

Absolutely right. The question is, is it already too late? Can America get itself out of this hole? As a nation, there's too much self-belief - America's the greatest democracy so there's simply no better way. But there is and there are many, better systems of government around the world. To be honest, I can't see the US finding a way forward. I really hope I'm wrong.

That is the question. And we really can't answer it with certainty.

My attitude about it, however, is partially driven by history. In the U.S. alone, we have allowed things to degenerate to a similar state several times in the past. Arguable, twice, to a worse state at least twice. And we have reversed course, and come back to a relatively healthy state each time.

We know how this occurs. We know how to reverse it. But will we? Past performance is no guarantee of future success. The monied interests have gotten both more intentional and more sophisticated in their misguided efforts to control things.

So I assume it's correctable, and work to correct it.

[Osborne Russell]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

There's this idea that at some point the struggle ends.

[David G]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

There's this idea that at some point the struggle ends.

We are all free to give up at any time. Some of us will, of course, have some thoughts about those who give up. Or those who avoid the issues in favor of the 'living well is the best revenge' approach.

[RFNK]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

No, the struggle never ends and, really, no one should give up. I think the US' media environment is much worse now than ever before and that's, particularly, what makes it harder this time.

[skuthorp]

Re: If the political parties are two 'evils'

this.

"www.salon.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-to-rich-donors-nothing-would-fundamentally-change-if-hes-elected/"

title says it all. since no amount of taxation will cause a fundamental change for/to the atfw, it was obviously the workers he referred to.

Under your and our system parties have to buy their votes, mostly by making expensive fiction called 'political advertisements' or porkbarreling the electorates. And the voters accept this as normal and acceptable. They deserve what they get.