Something from the past that we need to bring back…

[Keith Wilson]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

. .CA hit the smog thing hard for model year 64 iirc.. it wasn't really hard. then congress had to get in - of course. 1st, CA couldn't be allowed to do better than.., and 2nd, oil is a profit industry - they were terrified of fuel economy matching Europe's/Asia's.. I know, I know.. you still imagine all bad things are accidental -

This is just silly. I have no tolerance tor baseless conspiracy theories, but not all bad things are accidental, not even close, and there was tremendous resistance by the industry to pollution controls. My point was that a simple carburetor is dirty, and a cleaner carburetor is not at all simple. Have you ever worked on an '80s or '90s carburetor? It is far, far, far simpler to control the mixture accurately under all conditions with electronic fuel injection and a bit of well-written software. Emission-control carburetors are a godawful complicated kludge, even when they work. Nostalgia for simple carbs is, alas, nostalgia for air pollution.

Oh, and FWIW, the main reason we don't have 'fuel economy matching Europe's/Asia's' is that lots of Americans want big heavy vehicles.

[L.W. Baxter]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

[shared reality] where's the fun in that?

seriously, to some extent it has never really existed on a large scale. see, esp, religions.

it existed in my lifetime.

"shared reality" is not about a universal cosmology.

it is a rational acceptance of objective facts, reported events, discovered and proven causes.

allowing certain things to be true.

believing and incorporating into our world view that a thing that has happened right before our eyes, has actually happened.

the willingness to be governed, in body and mind, by events, and by law.

[Durnik]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

the willingness to be governed, in body and mind, by events, and by law.

so religious insanity managed to normalize itself for you?

amd Keith.. there's a list a mile long of things americans want - and aren't allowed.. and another mile long list of things wanted not, yet required.. so let's drop that b.s. belief, 'k? L.W.'s shared reality requires we recognize the effects of religion, law, marketing.. & king profit.. what americans want isn't really even under consideration.

[L.W. Baxter]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

cripes, bobby.

an atheist and an evangelical christian can share objective facts and events. they will view those facts and events from different world views and value-sets, but won't simply deny the evidence of shared experience.

an example: the 44th president of the u.s.a. was a birthright citizen, born on u.s. soil. that is an objective fact, as easy to prove as the birthplace of anybody, anywhere. it was a watershed event in our history when the denial of shared reality--the simple fact of barack obama's place of birth--elevated a game show host to a major party nomination, and thence the presidency itself.

has eff all to do with religion. the moral panic of a tribe fearing diminishing power has led them to abandon, to refuse interaction with, objectively true facts. it would be nice if we could recover shared reality.

[Durnik]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

has eff all to do with religion. the moral panic of a tribe

so, normalized it is.. religion _is_ (rules of) the tribe. that is literally how normalized it is.

to shared reality, ok.. there have been periods where overall consensus is or at least seems consistent.. but always, all around is varying degrees of outright irrationality. our problem now seems to be the insanity has worked its way to the very top. McCarthy's little dance to attempt to corral the magats is frightening in its very need.. and I expect it to fail. the difficulty with riding a tiger is the dismount.

and I'm back from a fruitless search. perhaps someone else (Keith?) can find the charts showing the complete disconnect between laws and people's wants.. and the near lock step of laws and industry desires.

[Keith Wilson]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

Y'know, maybe we shouldn't hijack this thread. My point was that while I like simple, easily fixable machines as well as anyone, a simple carburetor is a highly polluting device.

[John Smith]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

I miss the triangle vent windows in cars.

[heimlaga]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

Repairability. If natural resources are to suffice we must go back to repairing stuff and therefore we need repairable stuff.

Progressivity. That is organisations and politicians who really want to improve society for the common good. There are bound to be different oppinions on what will be improvements and what will not but if everybody have a sence of common good it is almost always possible to reach sensible compromizes resulting in something good for everyone and a general trend of progress and improvement.

[CWSmith]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

I believe wet lung is back in non-union coal mines in the USA.
TB and measles are creeping back in the western world as people eschew vaccines. Maybe the CIA could make vaccines that don't have tracking devices in them?

Staggering, isn't it?

Is the condor back from the edge of extinction?

There are some things that will require more work: mammoths, passenger pigeons, the dodo, and the Tasmanian tiger. Not sure how I feel about the saber tooth...

[Keith Wilson]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

. . . and I'm back from a fruitless search. perhaps someone else (Keith?) can find the charts showing the complete disconnect between laws and people's wants.. and the near lock step of laws and industry desires.

Yes, this happens all too often - but at the risk of further hijacking the thread, the example that originally brought this up, the complexity of emission-control carburetors, is evidence for exactly the opposite. The mere existence of the EPA is a gigantic example of the opposite, in fact. A new car today emits less than 2% of the smog-forming pollutants - hydrocarbons, particulates, CO, nitrogen oxides, formaldehyde - than it did in 1975, and average gas mileage has doubled. This despite vehement opposition from industry every step of the way, because the citizens wanted it to happen. Cynicism is useful in moderate doses, bad in excess

[epoxyboy]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

Obviously not members of the "fix it yourself" crowd.

Let's get rid of religion while we're chucking the other vile creations of man.

Lol, the modestly well equipped workshop, and the wife who sometimes complains that I keep things going way to far past their use-by date, says different. Was under our bus yesterday greasing suspension and adjusting the drag link ends.....
I dislike things that aren't repairable too, I also dislike wasting time fixing something repeatedly, when there is a vastly superior alternative. The trouble is in a modern vehicle, the really good bits come with a lot of other flaky garbage that won't go the distance.

Pete

[John Smith]

Re: Something from the past that we need to bring back…

I'd like to see more things built in my country. Many blame NAFTA, but that wasn't signed until 1993, and hardly accounts for my '1979 Pontiac or my 1982 Oldsmobile being manufactured in Canada. My old friend, a Reagan fan and an executive with National Shoes, learned that no shoes had been made in America in at least 20 years, and he learned this in the '80's. No new shoe making machines had been put in a plant in the US since before WWII.

There were, I believe, two problems. First was the poor quality of cars made here. Gas lines in the latter years of the '70's got people buying smaller, less gas consuming cars and found much higher quality. The other factor, IMO, is our employer based healthcare which is an expense unique to the US.