Apology

[skuthorp]

To Osborne Russell's wife

I have stepped outside the bounds and I acknowledge it. He says I have impugned his wife's professional reputation by imputation so…….

I apologise to your wife absolutely Osborne.

My wife says I just generalise about my distrust of lawyers too much and she is correct of course.

And I know that legal services world wide only exist because some do have scruples.
And I know quite a few who've sought careers in the areas because of the ethical conflict.

[skuthorp]

Re: Apology

By way of explanation I have been involved, as a spectator and as a child, witness of child abuse by clergy and on complaint ecclesiastical and legal threats and intimidation, and their employment of harassment tactics. Coloured my opinion of lawyers in general as persons never to be trusted. Lawyer politicians have not improved my opinion.

[CWSmith]

Re: Apology

It takes an adult to say that, skuthorp. I hope that Osborne accepts your apology.

For what it is worth, I LOVE to tell lawyer jokes, but I can also tell you that 3 out of the 4 lawyers that I have needed in my life were remarkably generous with their time and advice and did not always charge me. They were genuinely caring and I appreciate their help very much. However, I still love a good lawyer joke.

[John Smith]

Re: Apology

Everyone's entitled to a lawyer. The lawyer's job is to work on behalf of the client. There are 'lines' or boundaries involved, and I have no doubt some lawyers may cross those lines from time to time.

I'd like to say the system works well, but Project Innocence has proven we convict a lot of innocent people.

This does not necessarily mean the lawyers screwed up. It does say there are flaws in our system. The only criminal case I was ever on a jury for never made it to the jury. Defense caught the arresting officer in a lie, and the charges were dismissed. I can only wonder if the prosecutor knew he was lying, or how often cops lie.

All that said, I've known, and seen in action, some marvelous lawyers who were extremely dedicated to helping people.

[skuthorp]

Re: Apology

I have been on 3 juries. I was not impressed by the legals on either side. But the jury room was always a revelation!

[Garret]

Re: Apology

Every occupation has its idiots/crooks/sleazes. Sure, we've seen a lot of examples of sleazy lawyers in the US recently - but remember that all the good ones don't make news.

I have several friends who are attorneys & they provide very good services to their clients. Sure, they make decent money, but they (& other attorneys I hear about) will often adjust their rates to come closer to what the client can afford. A good attorney can be a lifesaver + they'll often catch things (especially in contracts & the like) that a layman would miss.

Remember that it's an attorney's job to give the best defense possible for their client - even if the client is a sleaze. As an example, a woman I know was a public defender in Albuquerque, NM. She defended a man for rape 12 times & got him off each time. She was furious with the police & prosecution, as they made stupid mistakes in every case that made it impossible to convict. As she described it, it was her job to give the vile creature the best defense she could, but it's the job of the police & prosecutor to make sure the case is solid. When you cannot prove custody of evidence (in one instance, the cop had taken the clothing that had semen on it home & kept it there for days before turning it in as evidence!), or have no notes on or memory of what was found, the perp is gonna walk. Is that the defense attorney's fault? No.

In the US, the 6th amendment gives a person the right to counsel & for our system to work, that must be sacrosanct. That being said, it's also incumbent upon legislators to write laws that can be enforced.

[CWSmith]

Re: Apology

Every occupation has its idiots/crooks/sleazes. Sure, we've seen a lot of examples of sleazy lawyers in the US recently - but remember that all the good ones don't make news.

I have several friends who are attorneys & they provide very good services to their clients. Sure, they make decent money, but they (& other attorneys I hear about) will often adjust their rates to come closer to what the client can afford. A good attorney can be a lifesaver + they'll often catch things (especially in contracts & the like) that a layman would miss.

Remember that it's an attorney's job to give the best defense possible for their client - even if the client is a sleaze. As an example, a woman I know was a public defender in Albuquerque, NM. She defended a man for rape 12 times & got him off each time. She was furious with the police & prosecution, as they made stupid mistakes in every case that made it impossible to convict. As she described it, it was her job to give the vile creature the best defense she could, but it's the job of the police & prosecutor to make sure the case is solid. When you cannot prove custody of evidence (in one instance, the cop had taken the clothing that had semen on it home & kept it there for days before turning it in as evidence!), or have no notes on or memory of what was found, the perp is gonna walk. Is that the defense attorney's fault? No.

In the US, the 6th amendment gives a person the right to counsel & for our system to work, that must be sacrosanct. That being said, it's also incumbent upon legislators to write laws that can be enforced.

There's a lot of truth there! A lawyer can pick and choose their cases, but once chosen it is very hard for them to walk away. And you need to remember that they also support the system where an energetic defense of the guilty also helps to keep the innocent out of jail.

[gypsie]

Re: Apology

Father in law is a Canberra barrister. Touch of narcissist in that one.
I heard it was so cold in Canberra the other day that lawyers were seen with their hands in their own pockets.

We love him dearly of course.

[doorstop]

Re: Apology

I know and have known a number of lawyers, a couple are good friends, I have found some good and some not so good people, just like in every other walk of life.
One good friend is our State Coroner and I wouldn't be in his shoes for all the tea in China....

[sandtown]

Re: Apology

I have been !

Wow, for a minute there I thought you had called her something like a Putin-loving Rooskie Troll Bot.

What a relief !!

[David G]

Re: Apology

T

My wife says I just generalise about my distrust... too much {full stop}

Good on ya for the apology.

[pvg]

Re: Apology

Every occupation has its idiots/crooks/sleazes. Sure, we've seen a lot of examples of sleazy lawyers in the US recently - but remember that all the good ones don't make news.

I have several friends who are attorneys & they provide very good services to their clients. Sure, they make decent money, but they (& other attorneys I hear about) will often adjust their rates to come closer to what the client can afford. A good attorney can be a lifesaver + they'll often catch things (especially in contracts & the like) that a layman would miss.

Remember that it's an attorney's job to give the best defense possible for their client - even if the client is a sleaze. As an example, a woman I know was a public defender in Albuquerque, NM. She defended a man for rape 12 times & got him off each time. She was furious with the police & prosecution, as they made stupid mistakes in every case that made it impossible to convict. As she described it, it was her job to give the vile creature the best defense she could, but it's the job of the police & prosecutor to make sure the case is solid. When you cannot prove custody of evidence (in one instance, the cop had taken the clothing that had semen on it home & kept it there for days before turning it in as evidence!), or have no notes on or memory of what was found, the perp is gonna walk. Is that the defense attorney's fault? No.

In the US, the 6th amendment gives a person the right to counsel & for our system to work, that must be sacrosanct. That being said, it's also incumbent upon legislators to write laws that can be enforced.

It's always been my understanding that the defense lawyer's job is to assure that the defendant is treated fairly under the law; not getting acquittals by slick courtroom tactics. I realize this lofty ideal was compromised many decades ago. When I was in college 50+ years ago a friend in his 1st year at law school told me (and this is a verbatim quote) "Guilt and innocence in a court of law has nothing to do with what you did." I find this notion a bit troubling...

[Garret]

Re: Apology

It's always been my understanding that the defense lawyer's job is to assure that the defendant is treated fairly under the law; not getting acquittals by slick courtroom tactics. I realize this lofty ideal was compromised many decades ago. When I was in college 50+ years ago a friend in his 1st year at law school told me (and this is a verbatim quote) "Guilt and innocence in a court of law has nothing to do with what you did." I find this notion a bit troubling...

It should be - and in Missy's case I'm sure it was - as she has tremendous integrity.

[gypsie]

Re: Apology

It's always been my understanding that the defense lawyer's job is to assure that the defendant is treated fairly under the law; not getting acquittals by slick courtroom tactics. I realize this lofty ideal was compromised many decades ago. When I was in college 50+ years ago a friend in his 1st year at law school told me (and this is a verbatim quote) "Guilt and innocence in a court of law has nothing to do with what you did." I find this notion a bit troubling...

Billy Brag, 'This isn't a court of justice son, this is a court of law'.

[skuthorp]

Re: Apology

Billy Brag, 'This isn't a court of justice son, this is a court of law'.

…..and aint that the truth…………….