Employment Contract Question

[WI-Tom]

Here's a clause from my current teaching contract:

Visa: Full assistance and financial support for visa/registration procedures including any time away from school with pay if required. This does not include the staff menrber's personal documents (passports, university certificates, police checks, medical certificates, certifications, etc.)

Because of some problems with the way the school has handled applications of residency permits for foreign teachers, I will not receive my 3-year Polish residency card until sometime around Christmas at the earliest.

My current visa--a multi-entry visa that allows me to live and work in Poland, and travel freely in the Schengen Area for 1 year--expires at the end of July.

The only way for me to renew this visa is to attend an in-person appointment at the Polish Consulate in Chicago. And they are very very busy. The only appointment date available is for 9:00 a.m. on 6 June, which is still during the school year.

Clearly, my contract guarantees me time away to attend the 6 June appointment. I'm curious how you Bilge rats read the bolded bit:

Is it "Full assistance and FULL financial support" (with the exceptions noted)? In that case, airfare and Chicago accommodations should (arguably) be paid by the employer.

Or do you read: "Full assistance and (some unspecified level of) financial support?" In which case, the employer will likely refuse to pay much at all.

I'm guessing the employer will argue the latter interpretation. I will argue the former. It will be an unpleasant conversation, based on my interactions with the school owner so far. Either way, my principal (who has no authority here) will find it frustrating that I have to be gone so near the end of a school year. And my colleagues will have to pick up the slack and cover my classes.

A curious display of incompetence from a school that has been open for more than 10 years, and wants to present itself as an international school.

What do you all think? How would you objectively interpret that clause? I'm sure I'm biased and I know damn well the school owner is, too.

Tom

[WI-Tom]

Re: Employment Contract Question

A follow-up question about visas and EU travel in general (it's all new to me):

After my current visa expires, I can still travel freely in the Schengen Area for 90 days without a visa. True, false, or kind of true?

There is this, from the Polish Consulate website:

IMPORTANT FOR THE US CITIZENS: Based on an exchange of diplomatic notes between Poland and the USA, since April 15th, 1991 the US citizens are allowed to enter Poland for any 90 days period without visa. The common rule 90 days of stay in 180-day period does not apply in this case. Please note that the common rule is applicable for other Schengen States, and if its a consecutive trip to Poland you must cross the Polish border directly from the third country (non-Schengen State).

IMPORTANT: Your visa does not automatically entitle you to enter the Schengen area. During border controls you may have to provide information on your means of support, length of stay, and purpose of your visit. In some cases, such checks may result in a refusal for the visa holder to enter Poland and/or the Schengen area. It is therefore recommended that you possess copies of the documents which you presented when you applied for the visa (e.g. letters of invitation, travel confirmations, other documents stating the purpose of your stay). This will help make the border control procedure easier and avoid delays at the border.

What I understand is this:

As a U.S. citizen, even without a visa, I can be in Poland for 90 days in a row, as often as I want to. BUT, I will have to enter Poland from a non-Schengen state each time. I don't know what "a consecutive trip to Poland" means, though (bolded bit). True, false, or kind of true?

I have also received my "stamp" during the Polish residency application process. I've been told this means I can remain in Poland until a "decision" is rendered about whether I will receive a residency card. At that point, I will STILL need to wait for my card, so I am not sure what extra privileges having the "decision" gives you. I seem to have gotten the impression that once you receive your "stamp" you cannot leave Poland and return, until you also receive your "card." BUT, that seems to contradict the rule that U.S. citizens can be in Poland for 90 days at a time, as often as they want to be.

Very confusing! Any experience or thoughts from those who have done this sort of thing are welcome here. Cheers,

Tom

[RFNK]

Re: Employment Contract Question

The only way it can be read is full financial support. Apart from allowing the leave time, what other assistance would there be? Are you absolutely sure that you have to go to Chicago? Any Polish embassy or even consulate should be able to renew your visa. Having to leave the country for renewal isn't unusual but having to go so far away certainly is. Surely your employer can make representations to Polish Immigration on your behalf?

[WI-Tom]

Re: Employment Contract Question

The only way it can be read is full financial support. Apart from allowing the leave time, what other assistance would there be? Are you absolutely sure that you have to go to Chicago? Any Polish embassy or even consulate should be able to renew your visa. Having to leave the country for renewal isn't unusual but having to go so far away certainly is. Surely your employer can make representations to Polish Immigration on your behalf?

Thanks--I appreciate your input, Rick.

Surprisingly, it seems to be quite true that I will have to return to the U.S. to renew my visa (not necessarily Chicago, but that's close to home, and I already know the person who handles visas there from our first visa interview, which might be helpful). The school did submit an application to the Consulate in Krakow to renew my visa here, but word is that unless you can present some compelling reason why you are unable to return to the U.S., they won't do it. I'm supposed to get a definite answer on that by the end of May, but I am assuming "no" for now, which will mean a trip to the U.S.

Tom

[dutchpp]

Re: Employment Contract Question

I'm not an immigration expert and although the EU regulations are harmonized there still could be some small local differences. Usually the best advice comes from locals with knowledge of these matters, for instance Polish teaching union representatives, the people who arranged your transfer to Poland, local immigration lawyers, the Krakow civil servant who handles immigration etc.

You are actually working in Poland, it might be possible that the 90 day's period you refer to in your second post is applicable only to tourists, watch out!

As an employer I would certainly protest to a trip to Chicago only to renew a visa, a waste of time and money.
Good luck with your efforts.

Edit; In the available Dutch internet posts I couldn't find a similar example although I'm sure these things happen here as well. When I was responsible for the employment of expats we used a specialized company to help us with all the paperwork, there must be Polish equivalents.

[sp_clark]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Because of some problems with the way the school has handled applications of residency permits for foreign teachers, I will not receive my 3-year Polish residency card until sometime around Christmas at the earliest.

So you're not alone in this predicament?

When did you begin to become aware that there were problems that could affect your visa status?

Are you able to speak to others who have been or are currently affected by these problems?

You need an advocate familiar with how the visa protocol may be mismanaged when applications are filed and processed. Others, who've been down the path you now find yourself on, may be willing to share their experiences in negotiating an outcome to the benefit of everyone involved.

Good luck in getting past this episode of your adventure.

[Lugs]

Re: Employment Contract Question

One thing I learnt very quickly in my Thai experience was that the ONLY way to do things was to use a competent visa agent. This is their bread and butter and they are in daily contact with the people who make the decisions. I know some old retired farts who insist that it is easy and they plug away at it time after time... and spend days doing it. Good on 'em... but neither you nor I are in that position. I've also seen one crusty old Brit marine engineer embarrass one of the officials in front of her boss and the boss came over to him and said "we are not children here". They proceeded to grind him into the dust. My visa agent saved his bacon.

So, let the experts do it. Pay the money, make a friend of the visa agent, enjoy life.

[John Smith]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Sans the word "full" immediately ahead of financial support, it is ambiguous at best. What it means will depend upon who gets to decide what it means. If I were the union rep, I'd argue it meant full financial support as it makes no other distinction. Management would argue it just means some financial support.

What would the arbitrator decide: unpredictable.

[Ted Hoppe]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Tom - I don't think you need to worry considering you have gainful legal employment and you are actively working with the authorities following the steps and requirements. They will pass and stamp you closer to the date. The Polish government is overwhelmed with Ukrainians and other refugees seeking visas and legality. You following the rules and have the backing of the school you should be ok.

How would Poland know if your valid visa isn't current if a history of traveling outside the country is happening? As an educator and writer - your travel is essential to your profession.

I would plan on a great summer and fall, be diligent on the matters but otherwise not worry about it.

[WI-Tom]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. It will be interesting to see how this goes.

Another foreign teacher (hired mid-year on a 90-day visa) just had to fly to his home country for a week to renew visas. He is expecting the school to reimburse his flights and hotel. If they do, it will be hard for them to argue that they shouldn't reimburse mine. We'll see.

Either way (whether the school resists paying my expenses or not), I intend to renew my visa, which will probably mean returning to the U.S. month. Otherwise, my visa ends in late July and my 90-day Schengen Area travel period ends in late October, just before a break when I may well want to travel in the Schengen area.

Tom

[Henning 4148]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Things might be open to interpretation. I guess the contract is under Polish law and interpreting it might need a fair bit of understanding of Polish law. And even then it might be ambigous.

Beyond that - I am not at all trained in Polish law and have no experience in that field, but my understanding would be, that they would probably continue to pay your salary for the probably 3 or so days it will cost to hop to the US, have the interview and hop back. As for the travel costs - I have my doubts, I would assume they would not see an obligation to refund these.

But - if they are happy with your performance, they might support you on the travel costs anyway, even if there is no obligation. So - conflict and legal arguments might not be the best way forward, kindly asking for support on the unexpected and oh so painful travel costs might be promising if the school wants to keep you.

All the best ...

[WI-Tom]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Thanks--I generally agree, in principle at least. Unfortunately I do not expect reasonableness from the school owner on this issue, based on earlier conversations. But I plan to do my best to be non-confrontational.

The contract is crystal clear that the school must give me the days off needed for visa issues, with pay. The issue travel expenses is ambiguous--a poorly worded contract, probably written by people whose English is not the best. However, if they reimburse the other teacher for visa travel, that will be a strong argument they need to do the same for me.

Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I am not looking forward to a conversation about this. It's not the best employer/employee relationship I've ever had.

Tom

[Nicholas Carey]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Here's a clause from my current teaching contract:

[COLOR=black]Visa: Full assistance and financial support for visa/registration procedures including any time away from school with pay if required. This does not include the staff menrber's personal documents (passports, university certificates, police checks, medical certificates, certifications, etc.)

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.
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My current visa--a multi-entry visa that allows me to live and work in Poland, and travel freely in the Schengen Area for 1 year--expires at the end of July.

The only way for me to renew this visa is to attend an in-person appointment at the Polish Consulate in Chicago. And they are very very busy. The only appointment date available is for 9:00 a.m. on 6 June, which is still during the school year.

Clearly, my contract guarantees me time away to attend the 6 June appointment. I'm curious how you Bilge rats read the bolded bit:

Is it "Full assistance and FULL financial support" (with the exceptions noted)? In that case, airfare and Chicago accommodations should (arguably) be paid by the employer.

Or do you read: "Full assistance and (some unspecified level of) financial support?" In which case, the employer will likely refuse to pay much at all.

I'm guessing the employer will argue the latter interpretation. I will argue the former. It will be an unpleasant conversation, based on my interactions with the school owner so far.
.
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What do you all think? How would you objectively interpret that clause? I'm sure I'm biased and I know damn well the school owner is, too.

Thinking like a bean counter, I'd guess the employer will [want to] interpret that clause, at least as far as "financial support" goes, as meaning "We'll pay whatever fees are required (and possibly the immigration lawyer's fees, if needed).

[Kevin T]

Re: Employment Contract Question

Thanks--I appreciate your input, Rick.

Surprisingly, it seems to be quite true that I will have to return to the U.S. to renew my visa (not necessarily Chicago, but that's close to home, and I already know the person who handles visas there from our first visa interview, which might be helpful). The school did submit an application to the Consulate in Krakow to renew my visa here, but word is that unless you can present some compelling reason why you are unable to return to the U.S., they won't do it. I'm supposed to get a definite answer on that by the end of May, but I am assuming "no" for now, which will mean a trip to the U.S.

Tom

Would not a compelling reason be that you can't take that much time off to fly all the way back to the states when the school year is still in session?

[Mrleft88]

Re: Employment Contract Question

I'd check to see if you can't get this all done by traveling to a US embassy and having the Polish attache meet you there and settle it all in country, or in a neighboring country.
When I lived in Grenada, I had a similar experience, but I had to take a 15 minute boat ride to Union Island (St. Vincent), to show that I'd actually left the country for a day, even though we were only there for an hour.
Technically a US embassy is US soil.