A veterans thoughts on gun control

[George Jung]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

A companion piece should be the bastardization of the NRA, starting (I recall) in the 80's. Actually the more important history relative to todays problems.

[Tom Montgomery]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

You're clearly the Constitutional expert and lawyer that the anti-2nd Amendment people need and deserve. How nobody else has every thought of this line of reasoning is inconceivable.

Run with it, but don't expect us all to agree. Maybe if you just say it again... that might work.

This fellow knew something about the the U.S. Constitution... although you may not consider him an expert since you undoubtedly disagree with him.

[LeeG]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

dse. Too much of anything isn’t good and we got too many guns. 2nd Amendment is an anachronism with no relevance to the 21st century where we have existing militias armed to the teeth for multiple foreign adventures and the majority of people live in urban environments where the local well regulated militia is the police.

[sandtown]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

The court can be wrong, but their opinion is the one that matters.

It matters only because Congress allows it.

They need to stop doing that.

[John Smith]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

Once again, if you disagree with the rulings of SCOTUS, then either overturn their decisions or seat a different court. Until then, right or wrong, the decisions of the court are the law.

Sadly, that's true. I have little control over this.

[John Smith]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

This fellow knew something about the the U.S. Constitution... although you may not consider him an expert since you undoubtedly disagree with him.

worth a repost.

[RFNK]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

Quoting the original text of the 2nd makes no sense, regardless of where one stands on private gun ownership.

SCOTUS has clearly defined in the Heller and Bruen decisions the current meaning of the 2nd.

Working yourself into a lather over the plain text of the 2nd is a waste of time, aside from providing a sense of feel-good righteousness to the advocates on both sides.

So you're saying that the Constitution is irrelevant? Rather than looking at it at all, a person should really just keep a list of the latest statements from the Supreme Court to stay up to date?

[LeeG]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

So you're saying that the Constitution is irrelevant? Rather than looking at it at all, a person should really just keep a list of the latest statements from the Supreme Court to stay up to date?

I don’t think he’s saying that as much as the present interpretation wrt personal ownership is hunky dory.

[RFNK]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

I don't really want to get into an argument about it. Whether it's the Court or drunk on the corner doing the interpreting, to an outsider it looks very contradictory. The 2nd, which gets quoted by gun nuts, and nauseum, includes reference to a well regulated militia as the context and purpose. America seems to be the opposite of that. It makes all the hand on heart stuff look pretty ridiculous if the sacred Constitution is completely ignored, doesn't it? In Australia, when it's decided that our Constitution is out of step, we change it through referendum. Our court interprets too and that can be controversial as well but, generally, the will of the people gets through somehow. In the US, it seems to be that every measure that needs to be taken to improve lives, whether it's healthcare, environment, guns, voting and other civil rights, working conditions, whatever, leads to a major battle and little is ever really achieved. It just looks to me like the guns impasse is symptomatic of a system that's no longer up to the task.

[TerryLL]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

So you're saying that the Constitution is irrelevant? Rather than looking at it at all, a person should really just keep a list of the latest statements from the Supreme Court to stay up to date?

SCOTUS interprets the 2nd in light of changes in our society and advancements in new technology. Quoting the plain text of the 2nd without a clear understanding of the various decisions of SCOTUS leads us nowhere.

But thank you for failing to understand my point, making false assumptions, and carrying on in a moronic manner.

[LeeG]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

It just looks to me like the guns impasse is symptomatic of a system that's no longer up to the task.

Agreed

[LeeG]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

SCOTUS interprets the 2nd in light of changes in our society and advancements in new technology. Quoting the plain text of the 2nd without a clear understanding of the various decisions of SCOTUS leads us nowhere.

But thank you for failing to understand my point, making false assumptions, and carrying on in a moronic manner.

come on , the SCOTUS is also a branch of gov’t for protecting dominant economic and political interests via reading the law albeit at a slower rate of change than voting provides.

[RFNK]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

SCOTUS interprets the 2nd in light of changes in our society and advancements in new technology. Quoting the plain text of the 2nd without a clear understanding of the various decisions of SCOTUS leads us nowhere.

But thank you for failing to understand my point, making false assumptions, and carrying on in a moronic manner.

Shooting the messenger is understandable when situations are dire, I guess but about as productive as the steady as she goes mentality that typically precedes disaster.

To be honest, Americans have been telling themselves that they are the most democratic, wonderful society for so long, and so loudly, that too many Americans actually believe that hyperbole. Y'all fail to see that things can be done so much better because you simply don't seek answers elsewhere - how could anything be done better than the way we do it? From this distance, US politics looks like a basket case. Children are being shot with automatic weapons in school. And your country has no capacity to stop that, even as it's getting worse. I really can't see how you all live with that. In any decent country, people would be out on the streets demanding change.

[Nicholas Carey]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

The court can be wrong, but their opinion is the one that matters.

The Supreme Court's opinions matter only insofar as the court is trusted by the people. To quote President Andrew Jackson, "The Court has made it decision — let it now enforce it."

I'm just reading what the founders wrote. Am I wrong in that it says 'keep', not 'own', or that it says 'arms', not 'guns'?

as far as that goes, a good argument can be made that if one was to look at actual original intent, the one class of weapons protected by the 2nd amendment would be those weapons that comprise an ordinary infantryman's normal kit.

Which see Sanford Levinson's paper in the Yale Law Review, "The Embarrasing Second Amendment": https://openyls.law.yale.edu/bitstre...=2&isAllowed=y

The essential argument is that in 18th century England, laws had a very common structure: an introductory bit establishing a rationale, followed by the actual bill: "Whereas X, we ordain Y". In the case of the 2nd Amendment, the rationale is "[Whereas] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State", with the unwritten understanding (as good English freemen) that all able-bodied men are part of the militia, and are to supply their own arms (per the English Militia Act[s]), and are to attend regular muster for training.

It therefore follows that men need to be able to possess the arms necessary to fulfill their obligations as members of the militia.

Like the title of the paper puts it, "the embarrassing second amendment".

[RFNK]

Re: A veterans thoughts on gun control

Well regulated militias don't have members who leave their guns lying around for the kids or who fire them off frequently in the front yard or go off to the local school or shopping mall for a shooting to let off steam.