BROTM Talks About AI

[WI-Tom]

Oh, boy. Everyone in schools is paying attention now that Chat GPT has taken the stage. The party line seems to be:

AI is inevitable. Schools should "embrace" it.

I agree as far as the "inevitable" bit. But what I mostly see is an inevitable decline in human capacity for rigorous thinking, creativity in writing, and in our capacity to actually know anything. Because, why bother knowing anything when Chat GPT can do all our thinking and writing for us?

I also see an inevitable dumbing down wherein the thoughts and biases of whoever programmed the algorithm are imposed on everyone else as if they were carved on stone tablets, where people assume that whatever Chat GPT says represents "reality" or "knowledge."

A further step in the dehumanization of culture. Once we have handed over all of what we--previously--used to do, until there is nothing we need to do but be passively entertained, what will humans be good for? Soylent Green? But who will eat it?

Thoughts? Opinions? Predictions?

Tom

[Paul Pless]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

my bad, thought this was gonna be an allen iverson thread

[LeeG]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

I honestly have no idea what the impact of AI will be. Is general AI like fusion, eternally 50 yrs away? My gut sense is it will be an accelerant of sorts. Where short term reward will make many intellectually obese, reduce human interactions for some and opening up new avenues for social control and profit. I can imagine people attempting control of markets causing bizarre volatility.

[David G]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

I see it as just another tool. The lazy will use it to be lazy. The nefarious will use it underhandedly. The honest will use it honestly. The creative will use it in new and interesting fashions.

I think that shifts in the nature of society will continue to have more consequential roots, and AI might alter the form.. even alter it substantially, but it won't alter the substance of human nature a ton.

[LeeG]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

Imagine a Chinese AI and an American AI battling for control of some essential commodity and they come to a resolution in 1.4 seconds but the aftermath is a surge of ukelele TikTok clips and microwave popcorn disappears from store shelves.

[WI-Tom]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

I see it as just another tool. The lazy will use it to be lazy. The nefarious will use it underhandedly. The honest will use it honestly. The creative will use it in new and interesting fashions.

I think that shifts in the nature of society will continue to have more consequential roots, and AI might alter the form.. even alter it substantially, but it won't alter the substance of human nature a ton.

That's a pretty common interpretation: "Technology is just a tool! It's neutral! Neither good nor bad! It's all in how we use it!"

And yes, I can see why people look at it that way. But, they're wrong. It may be a tool, but it is not "just" a tool.

It is a tool expressly designed to take on tasks and capacities that used to be human responsibilities. And if neuroscience has taught us anything about the plasticity of the human brain, it has taught us that the basic rule of brain development and evolution is "Use it or lose it."

So we have a tool designed to make the human brain unable to do things that it used to do, with verve, joy, and creativity. Much the same way that reliance on GPS instead of maps has created a generation (or two) of GPS users who have no real conception of spatial/directional understanding, but have learned to limit their perceptions to a linear set of directions about "how to get there."

Well, following step-by-step directions about "how to get there" is not understanding. And using Chat GPT to write answers for you is not knowledge.

They are, in fact, the opposite of knowledge and understanding. So, we have a tool designed to make humans less capable of doing things for themselves. There is a moral component there. It is not "just a tool" anymore than H-bombs are "just a tool."

It'll take a while for the full extent of the disruption AI will cause to become evident. But my prediction is: Another step in a long evolution toward something I'd rather not become.

Tom

[CWSmith]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

It seems to be human nature that we don't know when to stop and never so much as it is now. Everyone takes what they think is right and run it out to where it is wrong.

AI is useful, like Google, but it's only a tool for an educated mind. When it becomes more, we become fools.

That said, my MS/Word is incredible at anticipating my next word! I am very impressed! That must be some form of AI working that learns my writing style and adapts to it.

[John Meachen]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

I understand the concern,and to an extent I share it.I do recall similar sentiments being expressed about numeracy when electronic calculators became widely available.I also remember how thankful some people were to be relieved of some of the tedium that had bogged them down as they did the calculations the old way.I suppose the essence of the matter is to educate people to the point where they attain competence before letting them explore the technological alternative.

Similar sentiments could be applied to electric tools.As an aside,when was the last time a professional woodworker actually sharpened his own saw?The world moves on and some of the old skills die out,which suggests that some of the useful ones need to be kept alive in some way.

[heimfried]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

[...]
Similar sentiments could be applied to electric tools.As an aside,when was the last time a professional woodworker actually sharpened his own saw?[...]

To me this is not comparable.
Every very simple guy knows, that he has to push the button to start the electric tool and release it to stop the device. That is called "control" a tool. Using AI nearly no one is able to control its function or the results. This is the knowledge of only very few people controlled by very few others. Exactly that is the danger.

[heimfried]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

That's a pretty common interpretation: "Technology is just a tool! It's neutral! Neither good nor bad! It's all in how we use it!"

And yes, I can see why people look at it that way. But, they're wrong. It may be a tool, but it is not "just" a tool.

It is a tool expressly designed to take on tasks and capacities that used to be human responsibilities. And if neuroscience has taught us anything about the plasticity of the human brain, it has taught us that the basic rule of brain development and evolution is "Use it or lose it."

So we have a tool designed to make the human brain unable to do things that it used to do, with verve, joy, and creativity. Much the same way that reliance on GPS instead of maps has created a generation (or two) of GPS users who have no real conception of spatial/directional understanding, but have learned to limit their perceptions to a linear set of directions about "how to get there."

Well, following step-by-step directions about "how to get there" is not understanding. And using Chat GPT to write answers for you is not knowledge.

They are, in fact, the opposite of knowledge and understanding. So, we have a tool designed to make humans less capable of doing things for themselves. There is a moral component there. It is not "just a tool" anymore than H-bombs are "just a tool."

It'll take a while for the full extent of the disruption AI will cause to become evident. But my prediction is: Another step in a long evolution toward something I'd rather not become.

Tom

I agree on this.

[WI-Tom]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

As an aside,when was the last time a professional woodworker actually sharpened his own saw?The world moves on and some of the old skills die out,which suggests that some of the useful ones need to be kept alive in some way.

Probably the last time John Welsford noticed his bandsaw needed tuning up.

Tom

[WI-Tom]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

To me this is not comparable.
Every very simple guy knows, that he has to push the button to start the electric tool and release it to stop the device. That is called "control" a tool. Using AI nearly no one is able to control its function or the results. This is the knowledge of only very few people controlled by very few others. Exactly that is the danger.

Good point. Tech that is too complex for the user to understand in a fundamental way is tech that the few who do understand it can use to manipulate and exploit everyone else. The more complicated things get, the more likely that kind of thing becomes.

Not exactly the same as a pure tech issue, but: How many people really understand how Facebook, etc. works? How many understand that when something is "free," they are the product?

Tom

[AndyG]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

I do recall similar sentiments being expressed about numeracy when electronic calculators became widely available.I also remember how thankful some people were to be relieved of some of the tedium that had bogged them down as they did the calculations the old way.

The risk to humanity lies here.

We've all, I guess, driven a common route and arrived thinking "I don't recall any details of that trip!" So we put it down to muscle memory and subconscious actions that mean we made the way from A to B without incident. Or, indeed, direct thought.

Job? Done: Mission? Accomplished.

The brain requires about 20W. A sedate human about 100W. It's obvious that brains are expensive, running at about 20% of our total output at rest. Brains are hard. Minimising brain output is an evolutionary win. We are wired to do that. We can drive like that.

And so, here we are, in a modern online world of short-term news' cycles, of social media, where the decisions are increasingly being turned towards simple 'yes/no' options. There is no nuance. So (the easy route!) just feed the brain with the soma it wants, and don't bother struggling with letting it analyse the hard stuff, 'cos that takes energy.

I'm increasingly convinced the algorithms governing political choices/social media/the adverts you're punted/the crud you're offered and are keen to buy, are forcing us into an age of shorter soundbites, of visceral reactions ("I'll buy that for a dollar") and that the young will increasingly tend towards buying into that simplistic crap, much more easily than those who've thought about it. Not least because we're dinosaurs.

Which means state mind-control by Those In Power, and (how could it not be?) eventual totalitarianism. We see what you do, we show you what you want.

Andy, umm, no thanks.

[JTA]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

my bad, thought this was gonna be an Artificial Insemination thread. We use the 7-day CO-Synch + CIDR protocol

[TomF]

Re: BROTM Talks About AI

Every labour's saving technology of my lifetime has been billed as a way to provide people with more room to focus on meaningful work, or increase their leisure time. To my mind they've none of them delivered on that.

In contrast, the technologies have either displaced people in the workplace, or merely provided opportunities to keep people at their existing work schedules, but drive up productivity... without matching increases in those workers' wages.

I think AI has all of the potential to make each of those trends skyrocket, putting more money in the pockets of business owners. Until, of course, enough people get displaced from paying work that they face declining consumer markets for all that extra production.