Biden going after semi-automatics?

[L.W. Baxter]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

Even lamer is your attempt to deny it by saying "No, no, it's only Oregon 114 I was talking about!"

except that is not what i said either. why rephrase inaccurately?

why would i bother reasonong with somebody who does that so consistently. i wouldn't.

[Decourcy]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

What else is new? I think it's your sweeping characterization:



that is "lame."

Even lamer is your attempt to deny it by saying "No, no, it's only Oregon 114 I was talking about!"--and then avoiding the simple questions I asked about Oregon 114: Do you find any of its requirements unreasonable? If so, why?

But what it comes down to seems painfully clear, whether you like the way I word it or not:

1. Prioritize avoiding all risk of "deepening the cultural divide" by attempting reasonable gun control measures.

OR

2. Prioritize reasonable gun control measures to prevent tens of thousands of gun deaths per year, even if it means "deepening the cultural divide" (which I'm not sure can BE any deeper than it already is, but whatever).

But, when challenged, you won't (can't?) defend your position. And are probably offended that I pointed out the moral/ethical implications of your position.

Yep. "Lame" sums it up pretty well so far.

Tom

What you fail to see is that your number 2 will do nothing to prevent tens of thousands of deaths, but wil: deepen the divide, drive up gun sales of all types, and make the real gun nuts nuttier. Also of course give reason for a persecution complex.

[WI-Tom]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

What you fail to see is that your number 2 will do nothing to prevent tens of thousands of deaths

Evidence for that claim? What makes you think you know this?

As for this:

but wil: deepen the divide, drive up gun sales of all types, and make the real gun nuts nuttier. Also of course give reason for a persecution complex.

1. Can the divide be deepened? More importantly, so what if it is deepened? Morally, preventing gun deaths trumps the desire to avoid offending gun owners.

2. Persecution complex? They already have it. They've had it for years. Too bad. Time for gun owners to put on their big boy pants and realize that when they resist gun control legislation, they are contributing to the murders of thousands of people every year, and tens of thousands of suicides. There is no right enshrined in the U.S. constitution to avoid gun regulation.

Tom

[WI-Tom]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

except that is not what i said either. why rephrase inaccurately?

why would i bother reasonong with somebody who does that so consistently. i wouldn't.

Ah, the old "rephrasing" accusation. Except, I'd say my representation of what you said is not all that far off the mark:

i was referring to the actual measures being proposed in the current culture-war environment.

oregon ballot measure 114 is a perfect example.

I "rephrased" it, I suppose, to suggest that I find your position on this issue silly. As accurately as I can understand your position, it is:

1. Anyone trying to pass gun control legislation similar to Oregon 114 is either ignorant, or pandering to progressives, or both.

2. Anyone trying to impose additional gun regulations will "deepen the cultural divide," and that's bad.

When challenged, you were unwilling (unable?) to explain:

--What you find objectionable in Oregon 114
--Why it's more important to avoid "deepening the cultural divide" than it is to deal with a national health emergency involving gun deaths
--Why masks and vaccines, which certainly "deepened the cultural divide," were OK with you (if I remember correctly), but measures to deal with gun deaths are not

I think it's that second point that I find most offensive. Like I said, time for gun owners to put on their big boy pants and stop being part of the problem by opposing gun regulation. I don't care if that means they can't use their favorite toys everywhere and everywhen they want. Too bad.

I also don't think the divide can BE deepened. In which case, the major part of your argument appears to be irrelevant. But whatever. Even if you're right, see my second question above.

Tom

[McMike]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

interesting *cough* to see you express this sentiment. i feel this way about any number of progressive pipe dreams dreamt in the context of our hot culture war. the stupidest of all perhaps being promotion of an avowed socialist and democratic party critic for potus.

regarding guns in our society i agree that real progress is not possible through lawmaking. any gains that are possible are inconsequential, and serve mostly to deepen our already deep cultural divide.

and we have come to the point where serious people are no longer working on gun control legislation, so anything proposed is driven by pandering (by and for the dedicated martyrs of the left) and marked by ignorance.

Hillary Clinton was that hot culture war. "Anybody but Hillary" was the battle cry. And I agree, the anti-gun crowed is pandering, along with the college loan forgiveness crowd. A huge portion of this country does want universal healthcare. You have to wonder why the Democrats are mum on it. Now, nothing will happen, we'll stay stagnate for another generation.

[McMike]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

What sort of place do you work at where the office workers must arm themselves with pepper spray?
A penal institution or what?
Seriously, why would management employ people they are scared of?
Why would you work at a place where employees feel the need to keep pepper spray at their desk?

We haven't deployed it, it's there for a precaution. Our shop is in a nasty neighborhood and many of the people who do this work are hotheads. What triggered it was a person who is a violent person got fired. We settled on pepper spray to thwart any acts on his part. Fortunately, it never came to that. I think you need to understand, humans are sh17, they will do evil things. A little prevention is not unreasonable. The owner may carry a pistol, I don't know, no one else does and I'm glad for that.

[McMike]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

Maybe '****ty parenting' comes from the family needing several jobs to make ends meet. Maybe constant worries about money contribute to bad parents. Any WANT to be a bad parent?

Then don't have kids.

[WI-Tom]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

Then don't have kids.

But the right is against abortions, against sex ed, and against birth control. Hmm...

Tom

[sandtown]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

A huge portion of this country does want universal healthcare. You have to wonder why the Democrats are mum on it. Now, nothing will happen, we'll stay stagnate for another generation.

Partly correct, but note how the Dems get obstructed by the Right, and then get blamed for nothing happening.

Back in the days of yore, many Republicans also supported M4A. Those days are well and truly gone.

[McMike]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

Partly correct, but note how the Dems get obstructed by the Right, and then get blamed for nothing happening.

Back in the days of yore, many Republicans also supported M4A. Those days are well and truly gone.

It stands to reason that if the left is "bold" enough to scream and yell about gun control, they'd scream and yell about something that most Americans care about and arguably will save more lives.

[RCRVRP]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

We haven't deployed it, it's there for a precaution. Our shop is in a nasty neighborhood and many of the people who do this work are hotheads. What triggered it was a person who is a violent person got fired. We settled on pepper spray to thwart any acts on his part. Fortunately, it never came to that. I think you need to understand, humans are sh17, they will do evil things. A little prevention is not unreasonable. The owner may carry a pistol, I don't know, no one else does and I'm glad for that.

I assume having it available to all the people at desks meant it is "deployed" as in moved into position for potential action, even if not actually sprayed. But perhaps that is just semantics.

May I ask what kind of works attracts these " hotheads" your company needs to be so wary of?
Not asking where you work, just wondering what type of work this is that may attract this type of violent people.

Over my lifetime including summer college jobs, part time jobs during the school year and so on I suppose I worked at 20 or more companies but never felt threatened to the point I needed pepper spray at the ready. If I did feel that way I'd be looking for another job real fast.

[FishoutaFlorida]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

You know I used to live on a farm and used guns for hunting, varmint control and target practice. It was a part of life.

That is until my wife and I were shot at and heard that terrifying buzz of a 30.06 bullet flying by.

No longer do I own or use a gun. And I've been right with SoCal Joe for some time now!

Me, I WANT TO KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR CONFISCATE ALL YOUR F'n FIREARMS AND MELT THEM F'n ALL

Too many innocent lives lost. And we just sit on our hands and send prayers and kind thoughts to families and friends of victims.

Shame on us.

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

What you fail to see is that your number 2 will do nothing to prevent tens of thousands of deaths, but wil: deepen the divide, drive up gun sales of all types, and make the real gun nuts nuttier. Also of course give reason for a persecution complex.

I doubt anything that fails to address guns already bought will have much impact.

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

Hillary Clinton was that hot culture war. "Anybody but Hillary" was the battle cry. And I agree, the anti-gun crowed is pandering, along with the college loan forgiveness crowd. A huge portion of this country does want universal healthcare. You have to wonder why the Democrats are mum on it. Now, nothing will happen, we'll stay stagnate for another generation.

It's successfully labeled "Socialism" by the right, and that word prevents them from learning the facts of how well universal healthcare works.

This is just one example of why we need to get lies out of politics and news.

[John Smith]

Re: Biden going after semi-automatics?

Then don't have kids.

Not all pregnancies are planned, and in many places now abortions are not available.