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  • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

    Originally posted by Bill Fisher
    While I can't argue the point Lee, it still seems odd to me that we can't (politically).
    I'm so used to $3.45/gal gas that another .20 increase wouldn't seem so bad, especially if I was told it was Fed tax to help repair infrastructure.
    Many (many) years ago when I was a serious car guy I remember the Car & Driver editors urging for 1 or $2.00 (!) hikes in gas tax to help infrastructure. Even serious car guys thought it a good idea way back when so I wonder at today's attitude.

    Where I could see it being a significant impact to my budget would be if the diesel were to go up $.20, that would impact much of my daily needs (food, fuel oil etc).


    Bill
    identity, a sense of entitlement and political talking points make it nearly impossible. The “no new taxes” conservatives grabbed onto the issue in the 90’s while gov’t policies encouraged the sales of light trucks thereby creating a population of drivers hooked on X gal/week. Relatively stable prices in the 90’s and increasing vehicle efficiency made the consumption affordable and deficit spending to fulfil the Highway Trust Fund shortfall easy. States upped their taxes as needed and faux conservatives could play the populist line about “Joe six pack” in Congress. Now the fed tax deficit per gallon due to inflation is almost as much as the entire Fed tax of 18.3 cents and Biden is full on board with the populist line that JoeSix Pack deserves a free lunch at the pump.
    It truly is an example that we’re psychologically unfit for managing the challenges of GHG emissions and resource limits in order to protect legacy industries.



    The chart is from 2015 so the inflation adjusted tax revenue and gas tax have been descending since then. It’s as though the anti-tax zealouts are saying the cost of road repair and infrastructure building hasn’t changed in 30 yrs or increasing debt is now the prefered way to build and maintain infrastructure instead of pay as you go as originally intended.
    Last edited by LeeG; 06-08-2023, 02:20 PM.

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    • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

      Originally posted by Bill Fisher
      That is a pretty lazy cal.
      I just filled up at $3.45/gal.
      If I average 28mpg around town, certainly most of my driving, then I get $.12/mile but that is not what it costs to drive per mile.
      You need add wear and tear at the least. Better is to use the IRS value, that I don't have to hand at the moment but last time I did know it was in the $.35/mile range.

      I don't necessarily accept that EVs are that much cheaper to run, heck I can't afford to even buy one, but let's be honest with our numbers while we're talking about it.

      Bill
      The current IRS rate is $0.55.
      "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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      • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

        Taking advice from Rowan atkinson, 'the car guy'?

        Why?
        There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

        Comment


        • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

          GM has joined the Tesla charging network. Somebody best get busy building new charging stations...


          Ford announced its deal with Tesla on May 25. Now, the three automakers that currently command about 70% of U.S. EV sales are adopting the Tesla charging system.
          The charging standard war in the United States appears to have entered the beginning of its end.
          Investors judged it a big win for Tesla that Ford and GM will embrace the Supercharger ecosystem.


          As of Thursday’s close, Tesla’s market cap had increased by about $165 billion since the day before the charging alliance with Ford was disclosed. Investors were looking to add another $35 billion to Tesla’s market cap based on pre-market trading Friday. It’s another great day to be Elon Musk.
          GM and Ford shares rose as well – though the market caps of the Detroit automakers remain far smaller than Tesla’s. Barra told CNBC GM could save $400 million by allying with Tesla on charging. Not small change.

          David G
          Harbor Woodworks
          https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

          "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

          Comment


          • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

            Originally posted by David G
            GM has joined the Tesla charging network. Somebody best get busy building new charging stations...


            Ford announced its deal with Tesla on May 25. Now, the three automakers that currently command about 70% of U.S. EV sales are adopting the Tesla charging system.
            The charging standard war in the United States appears to have entered the beginning of its end.
            Investors judged it a big win for Tesla that Ford and GM will embrace the Supercharger ecosystem.


            As of Thursday’s close, Tesla’s market cap had increased by about $165 billion since the day before the charging alliance with Ford was disclosed. Investors were looking to add another $35 billion to Tesla’s market cap based on pre-market trading Friday. It’s another great day to be Elon Musk.
            GM and Ford shares rose as well – though the market caps of the Detroit automakers remain far smaller than Tesla’s. Barra told CNBC GM could save $400 million by allying with Tesla on charging. Not small change.

            https://newslink.reuters.com/public/31745479
            Here in SoCal everyone of my favorite 250W superchargers have TRIPLED in charging bays in the last two months.

            This one went from this to this in thee weeks. I think Tesla is on it.

            Screenshot 2023-06-09 at 9.39.10 AM.jpg

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            • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

              Joe - when you gonna figure out that SoCal, on this topic, is the outlier? I'm talking useful across this broad land... and you're focusing on prolly the biggest concentration of EV activity in the U.S. I think we can take it as a given...
              David G
              Harbor Woodworks
              https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

              "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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              • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                I was just in Florida and San Francisco and it was EXACTLY the same thing.

                Comment


                • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                  Originally posted by Joe (SoCal)
                  I was just in Florida and San Francisco and it was EXACTLY the same thing.
                  No... it likely wasn't. But it might have been similar - In The Places You Went.

                  Why do you persist in ignoring my point... that urban areas and interstates are not the only places charging will have to be reliably available. Think gas stations. When charger #'s and distribution gets to some reasonable % of the current gas stations... THEN we can talk about 'becoming mainstream'. If EV's actually are the future, that's one thing it'll take.
                  David G
                  Harbor Woodworks
                  https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                  "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                  Comment


                  • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                    Originally posted by Chip-skiff
                    Errm . . . Not to put too fine a point on things, but while lithium-ion batteries do not contain "rare earths" (which, by the way, aren't terribly rare, just difficult to extract), they do contain lithium, cobalt, nickel, and other metals, the production of which are not without issues.

                    The case for switching to electric vehicles (EVs) is nearly settled. They are cheaper to use, cut emissions, and offer a whisper quiet ride. One of the last arguments available to the EV-hater club, which is largely comprised of thinly veiled oil-industry front groups funded by the Koch brothers, fo
                    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

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                    • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                      Originally posted by David G
                      No... it likely wasn't. But it might have been similar - In The Places You Went.

                      Why do you persist in ignoring my point... that urban areas and interstates are not the only places charging will have to be reliably available. Think gas stations. When charger #'s and distribution gets to some reasonable % of the current gas stations... THEN we can talk about 'becoming mainstream'. If EV's actually are the future, that's one thing it'll take.
                      Why do you keep ignoring the Tesla Supper Charging network will allow you to drive anywhere even cross country just like an ICE vehicle

                      We did an 800 mile trip out to Phoenix Arizona and all around with absolutely no range anxiety. There were even chargers at our hotel and chargers at gas stations.

                      Play around with this and get back to me



                      Maybe one day Ill take a trip up and give you a test drive

                      IMG_0139.jpg
                      Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 06-09-2023, 01:54 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                        Originally posted by Joe (SoCal)
                        Why do you keep ignoring the Tesla Supper Charging network will allow you to drive anywhere even cross country just like an ICE vehicle

                        We did an 800 mile trip out to Phoenix Arizona and all around with absolutely no range anxiety. There were even chargers at our hotel and chargers at gas stations.

                        Play around with this and get back to me



                        Maybe one day Ill take a trip up and give you a test drive

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]138428[/ATTACH]
                        No good. Wouldn't let me use the tool. Maybe if I bought a car I could? Or maybe they just want me to open an account? Ain't happening.

                        But feel free to plug in one of my boating/fishing trips. Towing a 1500# boat/trailer.

                        Start Portland, OR. Then Wallowa Lake, OR. Then Sandpoint, ID. On to Eureka, MT. Next stop - Flathead Lake, MT. Then Bend, OR. Finally, back to Portland. How does that work out?
                        David G
                        Harbor Woodworks
                        https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                        "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                        Comment


                        • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                          It’s a website not a tool

                          Oh so now I have tow things
                          This is about a comparison between your basic ICE and my Tesla Model 3 ( If I had an X I could tow that, although the range would be limited just like the range of ICE vehicle )You keep moving the goal post. What’s next do you have to have the storage capacity of a semi ?
                          Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 06-09-2023, 02:23 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                            how many superchargers are there in the united states?
                            what percentage of those are in california?
                            what percentage of those are in san francisco and los angeles?

                            compare the above numbers to the number of gas pumps in the united states. . .
                            Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                            Comment


                            • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                              Originally posted by Joe (SoCal)
                              It’s a website not a tool

                              Oh so now I have tow things
                              This is about a comparison between your basic ICE and my Tesla Model 3 ( If I had an X I could tow that, although the range would be limited just like the range of ICE vehicle )You keep moving the goal post. What’s next do you have to have the storage capacity of a semi ?
                              Joe - if you'd paid attention, I've said all along that one of the reasons EV's are not ready for prime time, and not useful for our family, is that a fair # of people DO tow things. In our family, there are 7 boats, and a 23' camping trailer. Don't accuse me of moving the goal posts when I've said the same thing all along. I can't help it if you are reading for things to rebut rather than to comprehend what others are saying.

                              And yes, that tool simply shows me a red slashed circle when I enter those destinations/stops and hit the 'get route' tab. Did you plug in my route and see what the results are? Even without a tow vehicle? You suggested it, now I'm curious.
                              David G
                              Harbor Woodworks
                              https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                              "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                              Comment


                              • Re: EV’s are becoming mainstream

                                OOOOh so YOUR family is the reason in entirety that EV’s are not going to gain mainstream acceptance. Ahhh now it all makes sense.

                                Tell me what’s the Towing capacity of the top selling Hybrid ( we all know you love them Hybrids ) the Toyota Prius ?

                                FWIW I’ve sent that link to many who have no interest in Teslas and they can navigate it. I think it’s more about user error than what you are clamming - Like I said it’s a Website and of course they are going to attempt to sell you but your a smart guy I’m sure you can work around that
                                Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 06-09-2023, 03:05 PM.

                                Comment

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