Ukraine

[JayInOz]

Re: Ukraine

US Marines a few years back. It's a scout sniper platoon. Ostensibly, their use of the lightning bolt SS stands for "Scout Sniper[s]", . . . and they were completely unaware of that symbol's association with die Schutzstaffel. And if you believe that, I've got a bridge for sale in New York that you might be interested in.





Other scout sniper units liked to combine the lightning bolt SS with die totenkopf/totenschädel of the SS. Also, apparently in complete ignorance of the symbolism.



Aussie diggers got filmed in Afghanistan in 2007 flying a straight Nazi flag. In 2012, another Aussie unit got filmed using a Confederate battle flag to signal a US Blackhawk helicopter for extraction after a raid. Pretty sure they got it from the Americans.

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None of which means the American or Australian military are run by Nazis — though they do get infected with some morons from time to time.

Australia has just today passed a law prohibiting the display or sale of nazi and SS insignia, memorabilia or paraphernalia- penalty up to one year in prison. Already calls for an amendment to make the nazi salute illegal. JayInOz

[dutchpp]

Re: Ukraine

The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, June 7.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-7-2023

Key Takeaways

• The destruction of the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (KHPP) dam is significantly changing the geography and topography of the Kherson frontline sector in southern Ukraine.
• Ukrainian officials continued to accuse Russian forces of destroying the KHPP dam out of fear that Ukrainian forces would land on the east (left) bank Kherson Oblast.
• The New York Times (NYT) reported that engineering and munitions experts believe that a deliberate explosion was the likely cause of KHPP dam’s collapse on June 6.
• Russian forces and occupation authorities are responding to the flooding in Kherson Oblast with a great degree of disorganization and thereby exacerbating harm to the civilian population of occupied areas.
• Select Wagner Group-affiliated Russian senior military officers continue to posture as effective commanders to appeal to Russian President Vladimir Putin by capitalizing on high-profile military events.
• The pro-Teplinsky interview is likely part of an information operation aimed at undermining the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD).
• Wagner-affiliated commanders’ reactive public relations campaigns may not be sufficient to deflect from battlefield realities.
• Russian and Ukrainian officials each accused the other state of damaging an ammonia pipeline that runs through Kharkiv Oblast and causing an ammonia leak.
• Russian forces continued to conduct ground attacks around Kreminna.
• Ukrainian officials indicated that Ukrainian forces are conducting offensive operations in the Bakhmut direction as of June 7.
• Russian forces continued limited ground attacks along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line.
• Russian sources continued to claim that Ukrainian forces conducted ground attacks on the administrative border between Donetsk and Zaporizhia oblasts on June 7.
• Russian and Ukrainian forces reportedly engaged in skirmishes in western Zaporizhia Oblast.
• Russian authorities continue to restrict international travel for those eligible for military service.
• Russian officials and occupation authorities continue to establish patronage programs between Russian regions and occupied territories in order to integrate occupied territories into Russia.

[Johan R]

Re: Ukraine

What are the solid arguments for Ukraine to do it?
To deny themselves an avenue for attack?To cause massive destruction to their own citizens homes? And generally make life harder all round?
To, for the first time since the invasion, attack civilian infrastructure? (and for some reason they decided to pick their own?)

Ukraine would have known what the consequences of the dam failure could be, and there's no way they would do that to their own people. Putin on the other hand couldn't give a flying f### for the welfare of civilians.

Are you blokes stuck with reading whatever Murdoch wants you to swallow? If Crimea is part of Ukraine and inhabited by Ukrainians, why was the water and power supply infrastructure to the peninsula repeatedly damaged? You both claim Ukraine would not do that, but there is a long record of it.

Ukraine has been flooding areas, destroying roads, bridges and power sources since early 2014.

Ukrainians Flood Village of Demydiv to Keep Russians at Bay - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[dutchpp]

Re: Ukraine

A tweet from a former engineer of the dam. source text.org.ua

The Kakhovka HPP was designed to withstand a nuclear attack. There is no question of its self-destruction

An opinion of an engineer who designs dams. TEXTY contacted Mykola Kalinin, the chief engineer of Ukrhydroproject, a Ukrainian institution specializing in the design of energy facilities since the first half of the 20th century.
Mykola Kalinin: The Kakhovka HPP was designed and built to withstand a nuclear strike from the outside. Therefore, any talk that it could somehow collapse by itself is pointless. This is out of the question. Once again - the dam is designed to withstand a nuclear impact.
The fact is: the gates on several spans of the Kakhovka dam were destroyed and they let water through. About five gates were open and water was constantly flowing through them.

"How was it possible to destroy it, anyway?"

"Apparently, several explosions were carried out simultaneously. Most likely, the dam itself was mined, just in those spans that were open, and perhaps a little further. In addition, the HPP building itself, where hydro units are installed to generate electricity, must have been mined. What’s important - mined from the inside. Because, as I said above, the dam was designed and built to withstand a super-powerful impact from the outside. But not from the inside.
If you plant the explosives correctly, if someone tipped you off, and we know that workers of the Russian energy structure worked there, then you can eventually achieve what actually happened.
The fact that the HPP building itself was blown up may indicate that the Russians wanted to destroy not only the dam, but also the entire HPP as an energy facility in general."

"Supporters of the version of self-destruction of the dam refer to the fact that no powerful explosion was heard..."

"They wouldn't hear it, actually, because all these (mines) were laid deep in the HPP building - in the interior, below the water level."
"Who controlled the part of the dam where the explosives were probably planted?"

"It was under the control of the Russians, of course. They controlled everything there."

Translated by Dmitry Lytov

[Johan R]

Re: Ukraine

"Supporters of the version of self-destruction of the dam refer to the fact that no powerful explosion was heard..."

France 24 reporter said people in a village 80km away heard the explosion.

[WX]

Re: Ukraine

Australia has just today passed a law prohibiting the display or sale of nazi and SS insignia, memorabilia or paraphernalia- penalty up to one year in prison. Already calls for an amendment to make the nazi salute illegal. JayInOz

We haven't banned the swastika though because it's a religious symbol as well. We could have banned the canted swastika though.

[Paul G.]

Re: Ukraine

Australia has just today passed a law prohibiting the display or sale of nazi and SS insignia, memorabilia or paraphernalia- penalty up to one year in prison. Already calls for an amendment to make the nazi salute illegal. JayInOz

That is ridiculous, and typical by the way of the political response to anything. The problem is that you drive Nazis underground and what if they come up with a new symbol? Make another law, what if someone gets a swastika tattoo on their forehead and claims its a hindu symbol (it means auspicious)

Sorry didnt see the previous post, so swastikas are not banned? Make up your mind Australia or are you just led by donkeys?

[skuthorp]

Re: Ukraine

Several of our migrant group's religions regard the swastika as a sacred symbol, as indeed it is. Masons too.

[George.]

Re: Ukraine

Banning any symbol or speech is foolish. Ridicule works much better.

[JayInOz]

Re: Ukraine

There are exemptions to the ban- religious and educational mainly.

[JayInOz]

Re: Ukraine

Are you blokes stuck with reading whatever Murdoch wants you to swallow? If Crimea is part of Ukraine and inhabited by Ukrainians, why was the water and power supply infrastructure to the peninsula repeatedly damaged? You both claim Ukraine would not do that, but there is a long record of it.
)

And right now Ukrainians are trying to rescue flood victims and are being attacked by russians while doing so. Yeah but what about..... keep banging away vadim. Keep those rubles coming in.

[Lew Barrett]

Re: Ukraine

I came across this, personally I would have used Stalin's image.
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I agree with you but the problem with the perfectly apt image of using Stalin as Putin’s reflection is that Stalin remains revered in Putin’s circle. They remember those good old Soviet days of the Holodomor and the relocation, the purges and destruction of ethnic minorities fondly. Consequently for Russians, Hitler remains the ultimate scion of evil. Self reflection isn’t big in Russia these days. In fact, critical thinking is generally frowned upon in Russia. For internal consumption, Hitler will have to do for now.

Nothing makes sense in today’s Russia. And, for those poor fools in the west who insist that Ukraine is unable to think or act for itself and is somehow a donkey being led by its nose, no argument will suffice. They mistakenly believe that a failure to argue their each and every silly point somehow means there is no argument to counter their brilliance. That which is obvious is not visible to them. You run into the same problem when trying to prove to diehard Republicans that Antifa and BLM were not the organizers of January 6. Belief and anger make their “alternative facts” stand as proof in the face of all logic and reason. Sadly, they are the victims of Russian disinformation and they do not have the capacity to parse the wheat from the chaff. Or, they are just disillusioned and need an easy explanation to assuage their ire and unhappiness. Perhaps they are simply trying to earn a little pocket money but I rather think they listen to too much Scott Ritter.

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Ukraine

Are you blokes stuck with reading whatever Murdoch wants you to swallow? If Crimea is part of Ukraine and inhabited by Ukrainians, why was the water and power supply infrastructure to the peninsula repeatedly damaged? You both claim Ukraine would not do that, but there is a long record of it.

Ukraine has been flooding areas, destroying roads, bridges and power sources since early 2014.

Ukrainians Flood Village of Demydiv to Keep Russians at Bay - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Apply the "What is more likely" test.
On the one hand, Ukrainian demolition experts lugged of the order of 10te of explosives and equipment through Russian occupied territory. Then spent enough time without being detected by said Russians to set the demolition charges. Then escaped back into unoccupied Ukraine without being captured and paraded by the Russian army.
On the other hand, Russian demolition experts, working on a dam occupied and guarded by Russian forces for a considerable time, set the charges for demolition at a later time by Russian forces.

Bit of a no-brainer

[AndanteEd]

Re: Ukraine

An interesting angle on the dam breach on the BBC website.

In effect it appears to be saying that the dam appeared to have had sprung a leak from at least the 2nd June, perhaps earlier:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65836103

Dam.jpg

If that's the case it seems a little odd that nobody seemed to have noticed what was going on until it was too late.

[Johan R]

Re: Ukraine

And right now Ukrainians are trying to rescue flood victims and are being attacked by russians while doing so. Yeah but what about.....

A normal person, those I usually consider myself to converse with, may have responded to my post with " No, I have never seen that news, I was unaware that Ukraine would flood its own villages and destroy infrastructure. My statement was incorrect and I apologise"

You however, being the rice paper thin skinned cretin who takes pleasure in flapping your gums with endless wrongs from the safety of your outback dung hole, like a few others, believe its better to not man-up in being wrong, but to attack the messenger in any foolish way you can. Mission accomplished. Would you like a pink balloon or a lollipop little boy?

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