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**George Jung** · 06-07-2023, 01:59 PM

Re: Ukraine

Keep at it, boys! I think yer wearin' em down!

**sandtown** · 06-07-2023, 01:59 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by Garret

You will go to any length to avoid reality wontcha? ?

Bull-pucky. It is YOUR side that claims that Nazis are not a thing in Ukraine.

You are wrong.

**George Jung** · 06-07-2023, 02:03 PM

Re: Ukraine

Ol' Sandy is just trying to win a bet with his buddies...

'Bet I can keep these yokels on the hook for three pages!'

**sandtown** · 06-07-2023, 02:04 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by Keith Wilson

'Denazification' IS entirely made up, nothing more than an attempt at a plausible excuse .

As it happens, I agree; and I wrote that above.

And in fact, there are boatloads of extreme ethnic nationalists in Russia too - including its armed forces.

But that does NOT MEAN that there are not Nazis in Ukraine.

There are. Please read this . . .

Patrick Lawrence: First There Were Neo-Nazis, Then There Were No Nazis, Then There Were

https://scheerpost.com/2023/06/06/patrick-lawrence-first-there-were-neo-nazis-then-there-were-no-nazis-then-there-were/

Soldier of the special regiment of the National Guard of Ukraine “Azov”. March in honor of the Day of the Defender of Ukraine. Kyiv. 2020. spoilt.exile, CC BY-SA 2.0 via Wikimedia Commo…

**sandtown** · 06-07-2023, 02:20 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by George Jung

Ol' Sandy is just trying to win a bet with his buddies...

Any chance at all that you might address the topic ??

**Keith Wilson** · 06-07-2023, 02:20 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by sandtown

As it happens, I agree; and I wrote that above. And in fact, there are boatloads of extreme ethnic nationalists in Russia too - including its armed forces. But that does NOT MEAN that there are not Nazis in Ukraine.

OK, we mostly agree. But again, Nazis are irrelevant. I don't like them any better than you do, but Ukraine is not ruled by Nazis, and the Russian attempt to conquer and absorb Ukraine has nothing at all to do with Nazis.

**Nicholas Carey** · 06-07-2023, 02:33 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by Keith Wilson

OK, we mostly agree. But again, Nazis are irrelevant. I don't like them any better than you do, but Ukraine is not ruled by Nazis, and the Russian attempt to conquer and absorb Ukraine has nothing at all to do with Nazis.

Russia is run by mobsters. Does that mean we can invade Russia in order to de-mob it? Asking for a friend.

**Garret** · 06-07-2023, 02:56 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by sandtown

Bull-pucky. It is YOUR side that claims that Nazis are not a thing in Ukraine.

You are wrong.

It might be too much to ask, but please read my whole post. Of course there are nazis in Ukraine, just as there are in the US. I freakin' said that! However, there aren't enough to make Russia's de-nazification program anywhere close to believable - which you agreed with in # 12651.

I've managed to not engage in your BS for some time now. My apologies to all here for thinking I might possibly get you to see some reason.

**heimlaga** · 06-07-2023, 03:17 PM

Re: Ukraine

Suddenly there is a hive of activity with "people" writing things that I can make neither head nor feet of.
The propagandists are hard at at work obviously.
Johan or whoever he pretends to be after he "died" from his wounds is a proven professional propagandist and of cause he is trying to mix up everything by piling one lie upon another. PaulG and sandtown are reacting to the dam sabotage in a rather suspicious way don't you think,,,,,what shall we make of it.......

Meduza writes about the very probable dam sabotage:

What really happened to the Kakhovka dam? Nickolai Denisov, a researcher who’s studied the ecological consequences of the war in Ukraine since 2014, explains what may have caused the disaster — and what to expect next — Meduza

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/06/07/what-really-happened-to-the-kakhovka-dam

On the morning of June 6, water began to flow uncontrollably down the Dnipro River after the Kakhovka dam in the Russian-occupied part of Ukraine’s Kherson region was destroyed. Kyiv says the Russian military blew up the dam. Moscow, on the other hand, blames “Ukrainian military groups.” Meanwhile, some open-source intelligence analysts suggest that the dam may have collapsed on its own due to “unprecedentedly high” levels of water in the reservoir. Nickolai Denisov, a geographer and one of the founders of the Swiss environmental non-profit organization Zoi Environment Network, has studied the ecological consequences of the war in the Donbas since 2014 and the destructive impacts of Russia’s full-scale invasion on Ukraine’s ecology. Meduza asked Denisov to help decipher the contradictory accounts of what happened to the dam and explain the subsequent flooding’s possible consequences.

A bit of insights in how the Russcist propaganda works.

‘The only thing worse than war is losing one’ Even some of Meduza’s readers support the invasion of Ukraine. We asked them to explain why. — Meduza

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/06/03/the-only-thing-worse-than-war-is-losing-one

Since the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Meduza has been analyzing — and refuting — the Russian military propaganda that tries to justify the war (here’s one recent example). But while we find Moscow’s talking points absurd and unconvincing, there’s no denying it: propaganda works. Even among our readers, there are people who continue to make excuses for the invasion, despite the fact that it’s caused untold pain for millions of Ukrainians and has been destructive to Russia itself. We decided to hear what these people had to say: we asked them to explain why they support Russia waging war on Ukraine. Over just a few days, we received hundreds of detailed responses, read them closely, and decided to publish some of them with minimal edits. We believe these letters are an important record, and we hope they’ll be informative for those working to end the war, trying to change the ruling regime in Russia, and wondering how to deal with people whose minds may never be changed.

**Osborne Russell** · 06-07-2023, 03:43 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by Garret

Of course there are nazis in Ukraine, just as there are in the US. I freakin' said that! However, there aren't enough to make Russia's de-nazification program anywhere close to believable - which you agreed with in # 12651.

Believable, as if. If Russia's assertions were incontrovertible it wouldn't justify the invasion. It's pre-emptive war, just like the Chimp Squad invasion of Iraq.

**heimlaga** · 06-07-2023, 03:50 PM

Re: Ukraine

An interresting article about Russian colonialism and the inability of ethnic groups to cooperate as equals.

Why are Putin and ‘Team Navalny’ in Lockstep When it Comes to Decolonization? - The Moscow Times

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/01/why-are-putin-and-team-navalny-in-lockstep-when-it-comes-to-decolonization-a81320

Opinion | “Freaks” was how Leonid Volkov — the right-hand man of jailed opposition leader Alexei Navalny — recently described activists who demand Russia’s decolonization.

**heimlaga** · 06-07-2023, 03:53 PM

Re: Ukraine

Whatever happened here the professional propagandists will grapple for a chance to blame Ukraine and USA.
My suggestion is to wait and see.

Russia Blames Ukraine for Key Ammonia Pipeline Detonation - The Moscow Times

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/07/russia-blames-ukraine-for-key-ammonia-pipeline-detonation-a81433

Moscow said Wednesday that a Ukrainian "sabotage" group had blown up the Tolyatti-Odesa pipeline that Russia used to export ammonia before the start of its 15-month offensive.

**LeeG** · 06-07-2023, 04:03 PM

Re: Ukraine

JFC, quit with the nazi stuff. It’s as valid a justification as Saddam’s links to Al Qaeda. Putin probably has some homophobic propaganda in there as well. Whatever is needed to keep the sheeple pacified or riled up.

**Keith Wilson** · 06-07-2023, 04:12 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by Osborne Russell

Believable, as if. If Russia's assertions were incontrovertible it wouldn't justify the invasion. It's pre-emptive war, just like the Chimp Squad invasion of Iraq.

No, it isn't. It's an old-fashioned war of conquest, like the Romans invading Gaul, or Cromwell in Ireland. Mr Putin wants to restore the power and glory of the motherland and rebuild the USSR, or the Russian Empire before it.

**Peerie Maa** · 06-07-2023, 04:25 PM

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by Keith Wilson

No, it isn't. It's an old-fashioned war of conquest, like the Romans invading Gaul, or Cromwell in Ireland. Mr Putin wants to restore the power and glory of the motherland and rebuild the USSR, or the Russian Empire before it.

Hang on a minute. Ireland was an English colony since about the 12th C. Cromwell was putting the fraction colony back in its place.
Pick on another country engaged in conquest, like the early USA conquering first peoples lands, or the Spaniards in South America.

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