Ukraine

[Paul G.]

Re: Ukraine

Crikey.

Whatever “Paul G” really is, it is another “Johan” or whatever that sock puppet is. I’ve given it the benefit of the doubt and tried to reason with it, but this shows that there is no point.

It is worth noting that the three Kremlin inspired sock puppets present here become hyper active whenever their master does something particularly shameful.

Dont be ridiculous, your position is essentially bullying. in other words all comments are tested against some undetermined standard which is a logical fallacy ergo a variation of appeal to authority. Moreover its particularly undignified to call people names, now regarding the previous post of mine I went to the Kremlin website as suggested and read though Putins speech so I could try and get an understanding of what the poster was trying to convey. Nowhere in it did he declare unification under one rule, he talked about shared values, history etc going back hundred of years and finished the speech saying that Ukraine was free to determine its own future but Russia would not tolerate an anti Russian state on its border.

Obviously I dont have a history degree, nor have I any lived experience in either country so I cant really comment on the validity of his claims.

[Edward Pearson]

Re: Ukraine

Russia's May Governement Balance of Payments just released. As bad as last month.

They've spent 40 billion US$ in the month more than income.

He's still not making sufficient efficiencies to afford a war into next year. I don't know what the start value was after the money was confiscated It was estimated that it was 350 billion or so left. The Russian's were getting shirty with India for paying in rupees not Roubles, as it was costing alot to convert. Lavrov said its just sitting in an account all the Indian oil money. Looks like they're looking around the back of the sofa.

Anyway, just saying, Russia Gov PLC is out of business probably at the end of the year. If he started with 350 billion left in the National Wealth Fund, 9 months at 40 billion is 360 billion. So Russia falls apart this Autumn-Winter '23. I can't believe the Chinese will bail them out. It's not as exciting as a picture of a Howitzer, but the Eurocrats with the oil fix and the EU turning away from Russian energy will end this war if not before.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Ukraine

That’s interesting; thank you, Edward.

Louis XVI spent a lot of money that France didn’t have on a war to help the Americans. 15 years later …

[Paul G.]

Re: Ukraine

NATO quickly deleted a tweet yesterday ..........

Rupa Subramanya on Twitter: "NATO quickly deleted a tweet yesterday that featured a photo of a Ukrainian soldier wearing the Neo-Nazi Black sun patch. Remember we're constantly told that neo Nazis in Ukraine are an insignificant fringe and if you point to it, you're a Putin stooge or worse." / Twitter

I think it is a problem with the ultra nationalists, the New York Times published an article on it which is a bit of a sea change from the party line.

What really interests me regarding Ukraine are the vultures on the border waiting to pick over the carcass. The Poles for example have historically had a few bites out of the western regions, will they occupy if the Kiev regime falls? I think the EU has a lot of issues at the moment keeping a lid on all the potential flashpoints, WW1 started with a gunshot which is why this war need to be ended as soon as possible before it escalates any further.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Ukraine

I think it is a problem with the ultra nationalists, the New York Times published an article on it which is a bit of a sea change from the party line.

What really interests me regarding Ukraine are the vultures on the border waiting to pick over the carcass. The Poles for example have historically had a few bites out of the western regions, will they occupy if the Kiev regime falls? I think the EU has a lot of issues at the moment keeping a lid on all the potential flashpoints, WW1 started with a gunshot which is why this war need to be ended as soon as possible before it escalates any further.

… and it tells us that it is not a Russian sock puppet!

That’s a classic “talking point for today” at the Internet Research Agency.

[gypsie]

Re: Ukraine

Makes one wonder why Poland has handed over, free gratis, so many tanks and jet fighters and more.
Maybe Paul G. you should write to Poland and point out that as their plan is to 'take Kyiv' their supporting Ukraine war effort may be a mistake.

ABC Australia reporter doing a piece on the Kherson floods. We are very familiar with those scenes, people trying to save themselves, their pets and the precious food they've gathered (in a war zone). While the rescue workers were helping someone they came under fire from Russian artillery.

I have two mongrels, I won't grace the Russian army with that moniker.
Remember who you are supporting Paul G. Who you want Ukraine to surrender to. Cause that's the Russian condition for negotiations.

[Johan R]

Re: Ukraine

I think the EU has a lot of issues at the moment keeping a lid on all the potential flashpoints, WW1 started with a gunshot which is why this war need to be ended as soon as possible before it escalates any further.

The EU have been collectively bickering with each other since before 2014, and ever since. Germany and France are now fighting over who gets the contract to produce new munitions.

Never about the human lives being lost over the last 9 years, despite all those empty words. Follow the money.

[Johan R]

Re: Ukraine

Dont be ridiculous, your position is essentially bullying.

Its not bullying when he and others do it, just like UK and US war crimes do not apply either. He is another idiot who makes claims to knowledge he does not possess. He will be verbally abusive then claim to put you on ignore, if past history is anything to go by.

[George.]

Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett

But in general, apart from these cases, which are put forward on the basis of historical precedent, I cannot think of another case in which a right to take over another nation

Except for Israel taking over Palestine.

[JayInOz]

Re: Ukraine

It doesn't matter who provides the munitions, just that Ukraine gets them, and in large enough quantities to be able to totally remove the russian infestation from their country.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Ukraine

It doesn't matter who provides the munitions, just that Ukraine gets them, and in large enough quantities to be able to totally remove the russian infestation from their country.

Exactly. Unlike the Russian government, our governments did not know that Russia would invade Ukraine, so our arms production was at peace time levels. But that’s starting to change…

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett


Except for Israel taking over Palestine.

Which is almost universally condemned, if we are speaking of what is going on now, so I count that as a point in favour of my hypothesis.

[epoxyboy]

Re: Ukraine

Thanks, interesting. easy to read and Im no scholar or political expert . There is nothing in it about territorial aspiration and he doesnt say it has no right to exist, quite the contrary. His focus is on the shared history.

Yes, he says

We respect the Ukrainian language and traditions. We respect Ukrainians' desire to see their country free, safe and prosperous.

There's subtle difference between what he says and what he does. You have to look really hard, but it is noticeable.

Pete

[Peerie Maa]

Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett
There have been cases of a large nation re-asserting its right to rule over places which have asserted a right to be independent and really there seem to be just two large countries that have done this.

They are China asserting its right to rule Tibet and Xinjiang and Taiwan as part of China, and Russia asserting its right to rule Belarus and Ukraine and perhaps, given a chance, the Baltic States and Finland and Poland, as part of Russia.

I think we can see what the common interest of China and Russia is.

But in general, apart from these cases, which are put forward on the basis of historical precedent, I cannot think of another case in which a right to take over another nation on the basis of irredentism has been asserted.

Except for Israel taking over Palestine.

Not such a simple example,

https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/timeline_main.html

Having been granted some of Palestine

1968 - 1992

Following Israel's occupation of the rest of historic Palestine, it began building settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In these colonies, Jewish settlers are allowed to carry weapons under the protection of the Israeli army. In 1987, after 20 years of brutal military occupation, the First Intifada began in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

Re: Ukraine

What really interests me regarding Ukraine are the vultures on the border waiting to pick over the carcass. The Poles for example have historically had a few bites out of the western regions, will they occupy if the Kiev regime falls? I think the EU has a lot of issues at the moment keeping a lid on all the potential flashpoints, WW1 started with a gunshot which is why this war need to be ended as soon as possible before it escalates any further.

Since you are a member longer than me and appeared a legitimate human being, I've tried to respond to you as to such

Now I see and chuckle to myself - if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then probably the thousands of posts are secondary to that