Ukraine

[epoxyboy]

Re: Ukraine

You are making or simply repeating assumptions about Russia intentions, the first being that they want to add territory for its own sake.
Their 3 stated aims were to protect Russian speakers in the Donbass and eastern Ukr,
de militarise
and de nazify.
I think they got more than they bargained for but they havent mobilised which leads me to believe that they dont want Ukraine or at least not initially.

I believe Russia has stated its intentions fairly clearly.

And yet the very people they wanted to protect were amongst the first mobilised.

Ukraine's military was so weak, that Russia thought they could roll them in three days. If the russian armed forces had been the least bit competent, that may well have happened. ie. Their was eff all to demilitarise back then.

Nazis in russian speak = anyone not russian, as far as i can tell.

There is more and more information coming out that indicates that another wave of mobilization is likely to happen. They'll be drafting babushkas at the rate they're going.

I think you are giving Russia/Putin far too much credit, and assuming they are coming from a rational position.

Pete

Pete

[heimlaga]

Re: Ukraine

But it was your Elk that accused Roosia of blowing up it own Nord Stream - which was even more ridiculous.

And I have earned a fee academic degrees too.

The Danish navy reported the sighting of a Russian deep dive ship laying stationary and doing something while having the transoonder shut off. Right on the spot where the explosions occured a little later.
I find that to be a more likely explanation than that Norwegian sidewall minesweeper which you declared to be suspect despite numerous eye witnesses reported her an being unseaworthy and not having left the pier at the shipbreaker in Norway during the period in question.

[skuthorp]

Re: Ukraine

The bots and the 5th columnists are increasingly busy.
And I do understand the reluctance in America of some to get involved in yet another OS adventure, but we do know where appeasement got us in silmilar circumstances before.

[sandtown]

Re: Ukraine

The bots and the 5th columnists are increasingly busy. . . . but we do know where appeasement got us in silmilar circumstances before.

Yeah, best to just blow the bitch up (get yer Armageddon on) to show that we mean business . .

[sandtown]

Re: Ukraine

The Danish navy reported the sighting .

Can you possibly still be peddling that silly line ??

Check out the reporting of the New York Time, WaPo and etc.

But you are correct to raise questions about the Norwegian vessel in Hersh's reporting.

But NOBIDY is still claiming that the Russkies did it.

The Swedes know, but they are not saying - gee, I wonder why ??

[gypsie]

Re: Ukraine

.......

My God, that is entirely head in sand, cognitive dissonance, stuff.

Russia the misunderstood good guys and America Almighty (again! What is it with conspiracy drinking Americans and their belief in a supremely powerful government?)

[skuthorp]

Re: Ukraine

How the west handles Russia/Ukraine will likely dictate how things evolve re China /Taiwan.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Re: Ukraine

I’ve just been listening to Alexei Goncharenko, the Ukrainian MP for Odessa, telling the BBC in fluent English about the state of the flooding in Kherson and making the points that most of us here have been making, namely that if Russia is rewarded for its aggression every other country in the world will feel free to ignore international law.

[sandtown]

Re: Ukraine

I I think it’s possible to say that the idea that irredentism is no longer acceptable behaviour is generally accepted.

I agree, but the fall-out from national divorces can get ugly.

And why is irredentism necessary as long as they get that it is our oil that is under their sand ??

(Google) From ExxonMobil and Chevron to BP and Shell, the West's largest oil companies have set up shop in Iraq. So have a slew of American oil service companies, including Halliburton,

[skuthorp]

Re: Ukraine

"(Google) From ExxonMobil and Chevron to BP and Shell, the West's largest oil companies have set up shop in Iraq. So have a slew of American oil service companies, including Halliburton"

Follow the money. pres. Cheney was in Halliburton's pocket when you invaded Iraq. The Beqaa Valley and pipelines donchaknow…….

[J.Madison]

Re: Ukraine

The Russian apologists do seem a bit frantic these days.

[dutchpp]

Re: Ukraine

The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, June 6.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-6-2023

Key Takeaways

• Damage to the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (KHPP) dam in the early hours of June 6 caused massive flooding of the Dnipro River delta, river wetlands, estuaries, and shoreline settlements in Kherson Oblast.
• The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and Ukrainian officials stated that the drop in the water level at the Kakhovka Reservoir should not affect the safety of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).
• Ukrainian officials stated that Russian forces intentionally destroyed the KHPP dam and suggested that the Russian military did not prepare for subsequent flooding.
• Russian officials accused Ukrainian forces of destroying the KHPP dam and used the allegations to bolster ongoing efforts to portray Ukrainian assaults elsewhere in Ukraine as immediate failures.
• ISW has not yet observed clear evidence of what transpired at the KHPP on June 6 and is therefore unable to offer an independent assessment of responsibility at the time of this publication.
• Russian forces conducted another large-scale missile strike across Ukraine on the night of June 5-6.
• Russian sources claimed that the pro-Ukrainian all-Russian Russian Volunteer Corps (RDK) and the Freedom of Russian Legion (LSR) are gone from a border settlement in Belgorod Oblast as of June 6.
• Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin continued to directly threaten the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) and the Russian military command if they do not fulfill his demands for a larger independent army and political influence in Russia.
• Ukrainian officials offered assurances that the damage to the dam and subsequent flooding will not impede Ukrainian counteroffensive preparations.
• Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks along the Svatove-Kreminna line.
• Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks north and southwest of Bakhmut, and Russian forces continued limited offensive operations along the Avdiivka-Donetsk line.
• Ukrainian forces continued ground attacks in southwestern Donetsk and in eastern Zaporizhia oblasts.
• Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin claimed that the Russian 72nd Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade is part of the irregular 6th Division.
• Russian officials and occupation authorities continue efforts to use infrastructure projects to integrate occupied territories into Russia

[Johan R]

Re: Ukraine

But in general, apart from these cases, which are put forward on the basis of historical precedent, I cannot think of another case in which a right to take over another nation

Have you forgot about the pogrom the UK inflicted on Chagos? When did you last petition your government about its breach of International Law?

""The Chagos Islands had been home to the native Chagossians, a Bourbonnais Creole-speaking people, until the United Kingdomexpelled them from the archipelago at the request of the United States between 1967 and 1973 to allow the United States to build a military base on Diego Garcia. Since 1971, only the atoll of Diego Garcia has been inhabited, and only by employees of the US military, including American civilian contracted personnel. Since being expelled, Chagossians, like all others not permitted by the UK or US governments, have been prevented from entering the islands.""

""In 2019, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) issued a non-binding advisory opinion stating that the UK "...has an obligation to bring to an end its administration of the Chagos Archipelago as rapidly as possible, and that all Member States must co-operate with the United Nations to complete the decolonization of Mauritius"

"" In January 2021, the United Nations General Assembly approved a resolution proclaiming this.^[8] In 2021, the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea confirmed for its jurisdiction that the UK has "no sovereignty over the Chagos Islands" thus the islands should be handed back to Mauritius.^[8][9]""

[Johan R]

Re: Ukraine

I’ve just been listening to Alexei Goncharenko, the Ukrainian MP for Odessa, telling the BBC in fluent English about the state of the flooding in Kherson and making the points that most of us here have been making, namely that if Russia is rewarded for its aggression every other country in the world will feel free to ignore international law.

See my previous post regarding Chagos.

US signed an agreement and then pulled out of the Paris Climate Accords
US signed an agreement with Iran ,the JCPOA, and then pulled out.

If people are going to insist on current heads of State being held responsible for past agreements, then you have to look at breaches of those agreements by your own heads of State.

Nation States have interests, not friends. You have no moral high ground from which to whine, in fact, all you have done is show others how easy it is to get away from "done deals", with little to no consequence.

[skuthorp]

Re: Ukraine

Historical whataboutism. Colonial powers have been doing similar things forever, which does not excuse what is happening in Ukraine. The US was just the latest bully on the block, and now there are other bullies. Transitions are alway messy.
And I still think the war in Europe will expand before it contracts.