Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

[WX]

[Ian McColgin]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Loved his taking the time to check the bottom.

Opties are fantastic boats but that swarm of them and other shots led me to think it more like a Moderate to Fresh Breeze (Force 4-5) than a hard Strong Breeze (Force 6).

I do not think it was too much wind. Rather, he did like most small boaters did, gybing but not letting the sheet run.

He was learning as I did that no matter how well you secure gear and boat parts, stuff comes adrift.

All things considered, important things done right and a learning experience.

Finastkind.

[Rob Hazard]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Some well-placed flotation would make that recovery go a lot quicker.

[Rich Jones]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

9C is 48F
Pretty brisk.
I wonder what the water temp was.
Looks like he had some sort of wetsuit on anyway.
No chase boat in sight. Very important to have in those conditions.

[sp_clark]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Turtled, in 48°F water... yipes.

At least the capsize back late in 2021 dumping me out of my Waterlust wasn't a turtle event, and the water was closer to 75°F, almost bath temperature.

(I'll have to remember to wear my GoPro on my head next time I go out. I had mine secured to the mizzen mast astern so the entire event got captured – PM me for a link IF you promise not to post it here! – to my everlasting edification and some embarrassment....)

Very Glad I was to have fitted a battery-powered bilge pump before that outing too. I'd gone out that day specifically to do some capsize testing so it wasn't entirely unanticipated, just a little sooner than I'd been prepared for.

[Autonomous]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

This reenforces my desire to suggest to people looking at dinghy designs to search for capsize videos of boats in their desired range. Both to help choose plans and to get ideas for flotation.

I really think overall the sail-n-oar niche needs to improve its game.

[Jack Loudon]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Very instructive; thanks for posting. I didn't expect his boat to turn turtle, but it seemed to come back over okay. Good thing the daggerboard was secured and did not drop out of the slot. When the boat popped upright it wanted to sail off because the halyard (and sheet?) was not released. Stuff was floating away in the water but with the wind you don't want to let go of the boat to retrieve items. I can see how things could get out of hand in a hurry.

[Ian McColgin]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Avoiding total turtle - Depending on the design, floatation can be placed outboard both low and high that the boat will float stabiley on her side with the water level at about mid beam at the center. Failing that, get one of those ugly mast floats you see on small catamarans. Finally, get like all of us above a certain age who learned to claw our way over the gunnel to stand on the centerboard.

And learn to let the mainsail run. For most, that means investing in sailing gloves as your hands are not hard enough. It takes practiced coordination to go from trimming the sheet to letting it run with the only bump being the resistance of the blocks. When I was young Dad helped me make a training gizmo of two blocks on a tree limb (so that the hoist would not be under the fall) and a bench, plank, and block to be like the cockpit. And a cinderblock.

So I would trim, hoisting the cinderblock as fast as I could, a stopper which was the cue to let it run but then bring the falling block to a smooth stop.

Good training not used enough.

[Jack Loudon]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Gybing does seem to be the riskiest small boat sailing maneuver. All my near-capsizes have happened either while attempting a gybe or else sailing downwind in too-strong winds.

[WX]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Gybing in my Cartopper was the riskiest manoeuvre, particularly in gusts. A gybe all standing was to be avoided.

[Ian McColgin]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Lot of stuff to gybing, which can start with the Air Gybe for catboats with unstayed masts. May have a headstay but no shrouds.

Most catboaters are already skilled at sailing by-the-lee. This is when the wind is coming over the same quarter as the side the boom is on. To do this, the boom must be out all the way, normal to the boat centerline or even further. Hence, no shrouds. You will see whole racing fleets trimmed this way on some downwind legs as it can, oddly enough, be faster.

Anyway, if already by-the-lee, you are set up. If not, turn further off. As soon as the sheets go slightly slack, grab all parts and haul in, throwing the bundle of sheet to chase the boom.

You will have turned past where the sail is sheeted for so the wind will stop the sail. Bear off and trim before you lose speed.

Practice and build up slowly so as to learn how to do this safely. The boom lift is a particular issue and hauling down on the bundle of sheet to keep the boom down a bit is useful to avoid a ripped sail.

When racing I might sail by-the-lee but it is not relaxing and for cruising I prefer tacking down wind, gybe on gybe, which is faster in light air anyway.

I have sailed from Vineyard Haven to Hyannis in a Near Gale, Force 7, about 30 knots, snugged to third reef, with about a dozen gybes along the way, all stress free and easy.

In a real breeze, a catboat sail must be way out out or the sail will overpower the rudder and make her round up. Modern boats with high aspect blade main sails rarely face this, which may be why those sailors have the having of centering the sail well before the boat is truely on a flat run. But that encourages not letting the sail run in time, that hard snap of the sail headed towards powering a capsize.

I favor learning traditional tricks before going too modern.

G-Luck

[Boatmik]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Often gybing technique for dinghies is poor among sailors who have learned on catamarans or keel boats.

Here is an article I wrote, with thanks to Howard Rice and John Welsford who solidified the ideas while I was still working towards them.

I wrote this because from videos it is the single moST common reason for dinghy capsizes.

https://www.storerboatplans.com/event/sailing/capsize/safe-easy-gybes-and-fast-easy-gybes-on-sail-boats/

The other is pinching up in gusts upwind which leaves the boat vulnerable to a windward capsize (and is slow upwind compared to keeping the boat flat with mainsheet and not pointing up).

Cheers Boatmik

[Boatmik]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

And the person who posted this video a few years back learned from the error and is a fairly prolific YouTuber with many GIS videos and many safe gybes since.

https://youtube.com/@gisskerrykeleren3614/videos

Cheers

MIK

[WI-Tom]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Often gybing technique for dinghies is poor among sailors who have learned on catamarans or keel boats.

Here is an article I wrote, with thanks to Howard Rice and John Welsford who solidified the ideas while I was still working towards them.

I wrote this because from videos it is the single moST common reason for dinghy capsizes.

https://www.storerboatplans.com/event/sailing/capsize/safe-easy-gybes-and-fast-easy-gybes-on-sail-boats/

The other is pinching up in gusts upwind which leaves the boat vulnerable to a windward capsize (and is slow upwind compared to keeping the boat flat with mainsheet and not pointing up).

Cheers Boatmik

Thanks for posting, Michael--I really appreciate your continuing generosity with knowledge related to sailing technique, especially your focus on inexpensive unstayed rigs for people with shallow pockets.

I'm curious if you have any thoughts about gybing technique for a boomless standing lugsail. The article you linked to (which I've read before) is specifically focused on rigs with a boom, and specifically talks about a 2-person crew. The first move you suggest is to "pull in a couple of armfuls of mainsheet" to bring the boom to around an 80-degree angle rather than perpendicular.

It seems to me, with a complete lack of racing experience, and virtually no formal training, that this is a bit problematic for a boomless rig.

For one thing, if I try to let the sheet out enough so the foot of the sail is at a 90-degree angle to the boat, that doesn't happen--what happens is, the sail gets a big belly full of wind just when I want it flattened in windy conditions, and excessive sail twist brings the peak of the sail forward of the mast, which seems to invite the dreaded "death roll" and capsize to windward. So, typically, I am already sailing downwind with much less mainsheet out. And I tend to pull in even more sheet in windy conditions, hoping that an unanticipated gybe, if it happens, will have less power and cause less sudden heeling, because the sail does not travel so far in the gybe and can't build momentum. The downside is, pulling in more sheet when sailing downwind seems like it makes an unanticipated gybe more likely, even if it also makes it less powerful.

Is there a way to adapt your gybing method to a boomless sail? (I realize the lack of control lines may be a limiter here, but I do love the simplicity of a boomless sail where the clew is shifted manually at each tack to hook on a cleat).

Or, if not the same method, how would you try to safely gybe in windy conditions with a boomless standing lugsail? That's about the only sailing maneuver that can still (at times) seem terrifying to me, even after hundreds (thousands?) of gybes. Since I cruise a lot solo, in remote or semi-remote conditions in cool to very cold water, I'm keenly interested in NOT capsizing!

In case it helps, here's a short video clip of sailing downwind, reefed (would have been better double-reefed but that's a single reef despite the title), on a very windy day--immediately after this clip I had to put away the camera, as we were surfing along with 3-4' foot roostertails of spray rising up from both sides off the boat. And all the while, I knew that I'd eventually have to gybe or I'd run ashore (sorry, no gybe in the video--no way would I have felt safe holding a camera while gybing in those conditions):

My current technique involves:

1. Not letting enough sail out downwind, ever, to allow the sail twist to bring the sail peak ahead of the mast.
2. Maintaining a heading that is a fair distance away from dead downwind to avoid unanticipated gybes.
3. Bringing the sail in much closer to the centerline before steering into the gybe.
4. Letting the sheet run a bit immediately after the gybe to avoid sudden heeling, and pulling it back in as I steer into the new heading.

I'm sure a good sailor can manage this maneuver safely and with a lot more confidence than I have--any thoughts that people can share about gybing with boomless rigs would be much appreciated! I haven't capsized (yet), and would like to extend that record to infinity if possible.

Tom

[Boatmik]

Re: Goat Island Skiff capsize in 9 degree C water.

Hi Tom,

It isn't really specifically about a two person crew. I wrote it for the goose, which is often sailed two handed.

The "windward capsize" highlighted is about sailing upwind. And it probably the second most common way of capsizing in a gust. Pinching the boat in a gust when sailing upwind means that when the gust stops you have zero options - limited power in the sails and already hiking. When finding out that people who ease the sheet in gusts when sailing upwind to keep the boat flat (the ease, hike, trim that is mantra of modern coaching) will have a much easier time, the boat will go faster. And it is way easier to teach beginners.

Back to downwind and gybing ...

I came at the whole gybe thing from a competitive sailing angle. Which is probably why John W and Howard beat me to the synthesis. Not that they are not great racers as well!

With a boomless sail the first thing to establish is a stable sheet angle - so the boat is not rolling or heeling either way. Before steering over to the by the lee side and letting the sail come over when it will rather than trying to force. The downside with a boomless rig is that steering downwind the sheet has to be in further than a boomed rig - to prevent the top of the sail going too far forward and rolling the boat to windward. This is a complication.

With a boomed rig the boat is steered over to the by the lee side and when the boom does come over - without hauling in more than one armful of sheet - then the sail is almost completely depowered on the new tack.

I've done a lot of practice while thinking about all this.

Looking at it logically for a boomless rig ... the sheet does have to be in further because there is less twist control and none of us want the top of the sail going too far forward and rolling the boat to windward. This means that there is less need to pull in one armful (armswing) of sheet before the gybe - as it already is in. If the boat does roll towards the old windward side - then that can be countered by pulling in sheet.

The other part of safe gybing is lots of us were trained to "rush to the other side because the boat is about to heel the other way". This is an entirely wrong approach if wanting to survive strong wind gybes. The trick is to move progressively to cancel any start of heel. We need to get ourselves out of our expectations ... and to see what is happening moment by moment and be fluid in it. The old rush ... means we were waiting until too late.

I learned this sailing Lasers downwind in stupidly strong winds on Sydney harbour. I was practicing with my friend Al, who is bigger and stronger than be and also a terrific boat handler. I noticed during the gybes we did downwind that he was moving to cancel heel ... whatever else happened. At one point I saw him sitting on the same side and the sail - looks weird, but he was there cancelling the windward rolling. When he did continue the curve and gybed ... the sails was flapping - totally depowered.

So I moved my game when gybing to cancelling heel as it happens.

THe other thing that really helps is to stop regarding "by the Lee" as a forbidden zone. At least up to medium winds. Get used to how it feels. Competitive lasers spend half their time on the run sailing by the lee. If this is practiced there is a lot of learning. If it remains "forbidden" ... well ... won't know what happens.

When by the lee the heel can be controlled very nicely with the mainsheet. Pull it in to heel towards the sail ... Ease out to heel away from the sail. It enter a region of understanding the dynamics of roll - rather than being a passive victim/spectator.

It is also heaps of fun. Divided rig boats with unstayed masts - the fastest way downwind goosewinged is with the main by the lee and mizzen flipped over to its natural side. And the power to change the heel of the boat is an amazing feeling of power and precision at the top end of our practiced range. It is pretty easy for anyone to do. Start in light/medium to get a feel ?(as I keep saying hehe)

The main gives a huge amount of feedback to the sailor. The leach flicks and becomes unstable before it comes over. And because it goes from stalled flow to attached flow (but from leach to luff) you can feel a wind direction change on your face, before it wants to gybe. Won't know this unless you have tried holding a by the lee course and playing with how close you can go to gybeing without doing so. And if you mess up when trying this by the lee sailing ... the sail will be completely depowered when it gets to the other side. At least with a unstayed boomed rig. But practice and learn what your boomless rig actually does - start trying in light/medium and then extend as confidence in seeing the exact behaviour grows. It will be the same progression with the boomless rig ... but the only way is to try.

Of course there is no requirement to do any of this. But it is interesting how much it has become such a big part of ... I hesitate to say "performance sailing" because that is not the point. I look at it as part of the vocabulary of sailing. And I want to learn as many words as I can!

Cheers Tom - and perfect question!

Below is a page that includes a video of dynamic control of boat heel because of sailing by the lee. It is not possible when not by the lee because the main will depower (luff) when eased so won't provide the windward heeling force being used to counter boat heel. (only half of the available vocabulary )

https://www.storerboatplans.com/tuning/lug-rig-setup/sailing-unstayed-cat-ketches-and-cat-yawls-safely-and-efficiently-downwind-in-strong-winds/

MIK